CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

[Cedars]

I am so confused, this is the first I have read they were suffering from medical trauma.

I cannot find anything that does not state this a condition like PTSD.

deffinition of medical trauma - Google Search

What is medical trauma?​

Medical trauma is the experience of traumatic stress as a result of interactions with the medical system, which may include procedures (i.e., surgeries), new diagnoses (i.e., cancer), and professionals in healthcare settings. These healthcare settings may include primary care clinics, general hospitals, and specialty medical clinics, among others.

https://connect.springerpub.com/content/book/978-0-8261-2894-2/part/part01/chapter/ch01

I think whoever wrote "medical trauma" meant physical trauma.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

As far as I remember, after they were found, pretty soon medical reports of both HS and BS were requested by LE. THAT I found very astonishing and wondered, why this would be necessary.

Maybe, because of an at the time suspected suicide of one or both Shermans it would have been helpful.

The "medical trauma", which was attested by the pathologist, could possibly have happened at a time before the suicide/murder or directly before/during the final suicide/murder through threats and treatment. We won't know, I think.

 

[newclues]

Yes tied up Wed night. Died Wed night possible perp or accomplice return on Thursday to clean up any evidence and maybe stage the scene with the items found on floor.

Agree the autopsy should tell this information and they believe 36 hours, interesting that they do not say HS was 37 hours, if she was killed as soon as she arrived home, BS arrives about an hour later. And that is if the poolroom humidity did not alter decomposing times. I am not sure we have been told all of the details of their autopsies about other facts like lividity, blood settling, moved after death etc.

We heard suggestions about Honey being dragged and her injuries in the early days, much less intel about how BS ended up in the pool room.

Yes the ex chief of Toronto police held a press conference and said he knew who he was and they spoke to him already no issues with LE. To me that translates, LE are doing their job, move on, end of story. Why not at least tell the public something, he was expected, a friend, a maintenance person, why say nothing.

When someone needs to tell me how smart they are or won’t give any facts to back up a statement as fact and just says trust me, I get uneasy.

Given the fact that both of their cars (BS's and HS's) were there parked at the side of the house and in the underground garage and that the house alarm was off and HS's phone was on the floor of the mainfloor powder room and some of BS's stuff was in the basement hallway off the garage door, if the Thursday visitor was someone who knew them, wouldn't they have looked for them since these signs would have suggested that they were home, especially if that person was able to enter their house from the front door using a key and wouldn't they have noticed the lock somewhat off as was later found?

 

[fadedglitter]

They mean physical trauma that would have required medical intervention if the victims had been found alive. 0% chance they meant “medical trauma” in the psychological therapeutic sense.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Given the fact that both of their cars (BS's and HS's) were there parked at the side of the house and in the underground garage and that the house alarm was off and HS's phone was on the floor of the mainfloor powder room and some of BS's stuff was in the basement hallway off the garage door, if the Thursday visitor was someone who knew them, wouldn't they have looked for them since these signs would have suggested that they were home, especially if that person was able to enter their house from the front door using a key and wouldn't they have noticed the lock somewhat off as was later found?

These are such good points. Proof he wasn’t familiar enough to go completely through the home to find them. But somehow felt obligated or concerned enough to spend over an hour there.

(This is also why I don’t understand the housekeeper on Friday. She seemed to dismiss every clue that Honey was in the house. My thought would have been to look for her. Honey was 70 with severe arthritis and other health issues…realtors and clients showed up.)

 

[Sphinx]

Given the fact that both of their cars (BS's and HS's) were there parked at the side of the house and in the underground garage and that the house alarm was off and HS's phone was on the floor of the mainfloor powder room and some of BS's stuff was in the basement hallway off the garage door, if the Thursday visitor was someone who knew them, wouldn't they have looked for them since these signs would have suggested that they were home, especially if that person was able to enter their house from the front door using a key and wouldn't they have noticed the lock somewhat off as was later found?

All of this is important, but I suspect the person who came on Thurs, entered and left several times, returning to his car, was perhaps a real estate agent who was using his laptop, or notepad to take pictures of the interior, and show them to clients, maybe in real time. There would likely be questions, and he would return to different areas to film it, and show itto potential clients, who could have even been in another country. Perhaps he had no reason to show more pictures of the pool room, that was already on the listing. TPS did say that they knew who he was, and what he was doing there, after investigating. IMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

All of this is important, but I suspect the person who came on Thurs, entered and left several times, returning to his car, was perhaps a real estate agent who was using his laptop, or notepad to take pictures of the interior, and show them to clients, maybe in real time. There would likely be questions, and he would return to different areas to film it, and show itto potential clients, who could have even been in another country. Perhaps he had no reason to show more pictures of the pool room, that was already on the listing. TPS did say that they knew who he was, and what he was doing there, after investigating. IMO

That’s possible. The home sale was unorthodox in many ways. He may be connected and went in and did exactly as you said.

The issue with it being a realtor is that Greenspan and the family had no idea who it was. They cooperated with KD to find out. He’d have to book it through Stern’s office and get the lockbox code. Realtors have strict rules.

(According to my last home sale. The client’s realtor showed up unannounced with the purchaser. She parked right behind my car as I was leaving, blocking me in. I was too polite and let them in. When my realtor found out, he hit the roof and the other realtor got into trouble. No appointment, no codes, no keys, I had a dog loose in the home..the realtor broke the rules and took advantage of me being a softy.)

But maybe that’s why the Sherman side didn’t know who it was if it was a realtor—he broke some major rules, and walked right into the scene of a double-homicide. The police may have asked him to stay silent about it as he made himself a witness.

 

[ldlager]

That’s possible. The home sale was unorthodox in many ways. He may be connected and went in and did exactly as you said.

The issue with it being a realtor is that Greenspan and the family had no idea who it was. They cooperated with KD to find out. He’d have to book it through Stern’s office and get the lockbox code. Realtors have strict rules.

(According to my last home sale. The client’s realtor showed up unannounced with the purchaser. She parked right behind my car as I was leaving, blocking me in. I was too polite and let them in. When my realtor found out, he hit the roof and the other realtor got into trouble. No appointment, no codes, no keys, I had a dog loose in the home..the realtor broke the rules and took advantage of me being a softy.)

But maybe that’s why the Sherman side didn’t know who it was if it was a realtor—he broke some major rules, and walked right into the scene of a double-homicide. The police may have asked him to stay silent about it as he made himself a witness.

I personally believe that TPS has no idea who was at the house on Thursday. I believe Chief Saunders was being untruthful when he said that, to shut down criticism of TPS in not adequately investigating this visitor.
He also said that he knew with absolute certainty (or words to that effect) that the killer was watching the TPS press conference announcing the double homicide. There is a good chance that was untruthful also - he had no way of knowing that.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

As far as I remember, after they were found, pretty soon medical reports of both HS and BS were requested by LE. THAT I found very astonishing and wondered, why this would be necessary.

Maybe, because of an at the time suspected suicide of one or both Shermans it would have been helpful.

The "medical trauma", which was attested by the pathologist, could possibly have happened at a time before the suicide/murder or directly before/during the final suicide/murder through threats and treatment. We won't know, I think.

In Canada, if you have a history of Ill health, show no signs of injuries and thus reasonable expectation of natural death no autopsy, or a doctor is present during death an autopsy may not be required. But if any sign of homicide etc. a autopsy is by law required.

Families can ask for autopsy if the coroner’s office did not.

Death investigations

Learn about death investigations and how the process helps improve public safety and prevent future deaths.

www.ontario.ca

 

[WINDSOR]

I personally believe that TPS has no idea who was at the house on Thursday. I believe Chief Saunders was being untruthful when he said that, to shut down criticism of TPS in not adequately investigating this visitor.
He also said that he knew with absolute certainty (or words to that effect) that the killer was watching the TPS press conference announcing the double homicide. There is a good chance that was untruthful also - he had no way of knowing that.

Respectfully, I think implying the Chief of the TPS is being untruthful at a press conference is rather harsh.

The TPS has gone to great lengths in investigating this case, based on the filings they have made with the courts they have even investigated overseas.

Identifying and locating the Thursday Visitor would have been an easy task for the TPS, and no doubt they have. There is no reason for the TPS to be untruthful on this matter, as they are aware of the great deal of public and media attention in the case.

Based on the behavior of the Thursday Visitor, he was likely a Real Estate professional.

MOO

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

All of this is important, but I suspect the person who came on Thurs, entered and left several times, returning to his car, was perhaps a real estate agent who was using his laptop, or notepad to take pictures of the interior, and show them to clients, maybe in real time. There would likely be questions, and he would return to different areas to film it, and show itto potential clients, who could have even been in another country. Perhaps he had no reason to show more pictures of the pool room, that was already on the listing. TPS did say that they knew who he was, and what he was doing there, after investigating. IMO

I like the idea of another realtor, or maybe another home inspector.
Still curious why park on street and not in the driveway? Maintenance guy and company policy is not to park in customer driveway? Leaks oil and did not want to harm the stone driveway?

Come to think of it, I Do not think the person was overly concerned about being seen going to and from his car? Unless the camera that catches him is camouflaged to his view. We do not know if they had anything in their hands going to and fro?