Canada - Bruce McArthur charged in murders of six men, Toronto, 2010-2017

[Boatafloat]

What I do wonder though is how none of the poor victims' remains in the planters were not detected by a pet, or a visitor's dog? I suppose that is part of the deranged psychopathic thinking, really it was a huge risk by McArthur as surely there must have been some sort of dectable scent, even by humans, let alone animals. When you watered the planters or removed dead leaves/flowers? It is a smell that is very distinctive.

I live in the neighborhood and often jog with my dog. Several times we ran past those planters, and my dog didn't give me any hint there was something wrong with them. Another example, we used to have a guinea pig for eight years, it was here before we bring our puppy in, and they were friends, but when the guinea pig eventually passed away and her dead body stayed there for hours, our dog did not even notice that.

I assume, they train cadaver dogs for a reason.

 

[JDG]

It is incredible how long fingerprints can be detected, I remember seeing an oldish tv show about forensic scientists trying to identify a young woman's body, can't remember how long she had been deceased but they placed her hand/hands in some sort of fluid and rehydrated what was left and the fingerprints appeared. A bit like when you spend a long time in the bath and your fingers puff up.

What I do wonder though is how none of the poor victims' remains in the planters were not detected by a pet, or a visitor's dog? I suppose that is part of the deranged psychopathic thinking, really it was a huge risk by McArthur as surely there must have been some sort of dectable scent, even by humans, let alone animals. When you watered the planters or removed dead leaves/flowers? It is a smell that is very distinctive.

I wonder if Andrew Kinsman and Bruce McArthur were caught on CCTV together somewhere close to the date of his disappearance and someone in the area was able to identify McArthur? There's no doubt this is going to be a landmark investigation and I hope that in time a lot of important developments in policing can be learned from it. This thread has been horrifying and will probably get more horrifying but there have been a lot of really informative comments from the very committed contributors here, thank you for that.

Particularly in ways that perhaps studying these patterns, locations, similarities of disappearances, maybe computer programmes could be developed to pick these up and alert LE so that serial killers could be spotted earlier and lives could be saved. Apologies I can't remember who posted a while back about the criminologist who spotted the emerging pattern here and the journalist who kept pressing the issues. I think there are already ways of plotting victims which may pinpoint a likely area where the killer lives. Just hope there might be something to emerge out of this that will help stop the next monster earlier.

There was an article explaining that BM may have inadvertently preserved the body parts by burying them in the planters.

Being the gardener, he no doubt came by and cared for the planters himself and as you point out, he may also have picked homes with no dogs.

The Toronto homes where planters have been found by police are in affluent areas, BM no doubt provided 'care free' gardens for these people.

The interview with Det. Idsinga ^^^ upthread a few posts, is very informative about just how unusual BM is as a Serial Killer. They are all individual but often have some similarities but not this guy.

As Det. Idsinga says, its scary. BM was a grandfather, a mall Santa, seemingly a good neighbour in his apartment complex, caring and thoughtful to the couple at whose home he stored his flowers/planters.
He was not a loner, not thought to be odd in any way, sociable and friendly. Makes it very hard for the police to notice a 'normal' person hiding in plain sight. He blended right in.......very frightening.

 

[dotr]

I live in the neighborhood and often jog with my dog. Several times we ran past those planters, and my dog didn't give me any hint there was something wrong with them. Another example, we used to have a guinea pig for eight years, it was here before we bring our puppy in, and they were friends, but when the guinea pig eventually passed away and her dead body stayed there for hours, our dog did not even notice that.

I assume, they train cadaver dogs for a reason.

Welcome to Ws Boatafloat!

 

[JDG]

:welcome4: :welcome: Boatafloat!

 

[dotr]

Lengthy article, chilling. Absolutely chilling. Rbbm.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mcarthur-sudden-deaths-investigation-1.4550162
Ramna Shahzad · CBC News · Posted: Feb 24, 2018

According to criminologist and Western University professor Michael Arntfield, these "sudden death occurrences" could mean a range of things, including linking McArthur to any open or unsolved murder anywhere in rural Ontario that corresponds with his movements there years ago.

"Cases that are open, unsolved homicides, undetermined deaths would qualify as 'sudden deaths' that police are referring to," said Arntfield. "So [that would include] deaths with no known cause whether it be accidental, suicide, homicide, any suspicious disappearances or unidentified remains that may indirectly coincide with his movements over that 30- or 40-year period."​

In opening up their investigation to include so many more cases, many potentially dating back decades, Arntfield said investigators will encounter significant obstacles.

"Police need to cast a very wide net and go back many years. I'm going to suggest as much as 40 years [worth] of records may exist… particularly given what we know about his activities and occupation and mobility through the '80s and '90s as a travelling salesman."

Part of the challenge will include tracking down police data from smaller police forces in northern Ontario from as far back as the 1980s or 1990s, Arntfield said, when officers kept paper records of investigations and weren't necessarily known as "notorious record-keepers."

"His [alleged] victims may go well beyond the current characteristics of his known victims," said Arntfield. "Earlier in his criminal career — if these charges turn out to be substantiated — he may have targeted different people."

Arntfield said the high level of sophistication of McArthur's alleged crimes suggest he is quite adept at covering his tracks and evading capture, all of which makes this already-complicated investigation even more difficult.

"You're talking about someone who is quite frankly very organized and is to be candid: a sophisticated offender,"" he said. "He was [allegedly] making his customers unknowing custodians of these remains."

Arntfield said those crimes do not reflect a person who is "starting out" as a serial killer.

"We're [potentially] looking at someone who knows how to defeat conventional investigative methodologies and has likely done so for decades."

 

[matou]

Jan. 17, 2018: Police uncover two pieces of crucial evidence linking McArthur to Esen and Kinsman's disappearances.

Two pieces of crucial evidence? their DNA in his sold vehicle?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mcarthur-sudden-deaths-investigation-1.4550162

 

[Grey-St]

One of the groups I was in had a person who said a neighbour of BM’s mysteriously died in his apartment. She said that every light was left on (odd for the gentleman) and some other disturbances, but it was never investigated further. I wish I still had access to the group to find exactly what was said. But it was BM’s actual neighbour in the apartment. People were questioning if he seen or heard something...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The person died in their apartment? Or in BM's apartment? So bizzare regardless.

 

[Grey-St]

No, it's not. Those who intended to vote in favour were more likely to bother to vote. "Not everyone" (53%) is the majority of those eligible to vote who did not.

Hm? I'm just going come right out and say I'm confused by what you mean. Could you clarify? Who's eligible to vote, and who's not?

To me, it speaks to how the majority feels. I understand however, that not everyone voted. It's still telling though.

 

[Grey-St]

Yes, he is on suicide watch. I would think he's in a cell by himself, not just because of the suicide watch but for a number of reasons. IMO

CP24 had a long interview with Det. Idsinga and he said BM is on suicide watch. IMO

I know the drawings may not be true to life but it seems he's losing weight, may not be eating as well. IMO

I'm a bit behind, but do you have a link? I haven't read or seen so far that he's on suicide watch. I'm not discounting what you're confirming, I just want to read it/watch it for myself!

I agree, that from this sketch he looks like he's lost a significant amount of weight. That was the first thought I had when I saw it also.

 

[dotr]

There was an article explaining that BM may have inadvertently preserved the body parts by burying them in the planters.

Being the gardener, he no doubt came by and cared for the planters himself and as you point out, he may also have picked homes with no dogs.

The Toronto homes where planters have been found by police are in affluent areas, BM no doubt provided 'care free' gardens for these people.

The interview with Det. Idsinga ^^^ upthread a few posts, is very informative about just how unusual BM is as a Serial Killer. They are all individual but often have some similarities but not this guy.

As Det. Idsinga says, its scary. BM was a grandfather, a mall Santa, seemingly a good neighbour in his apartment complex, caring and thoughtful to the couple at whose home he stored his flowers/planters.
He was not a loner, not thought to be odd in any way, sociable and friendly. Makes it very hard for the police to notice a 'normal' person hiding in plain sight. He blended right in.......very frightening.

Thinking that info. was in this article.
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ave-accidentally-preserved-remains-for-police

[h=1]By allegedly burying remains in planters, Bruce McArthur may have accidentally preserved bones for police[/h] [h=2]Scott Fairgrieve said burying human remains actually works to preserve because insects, the sun, heat and scavengers aren't working to decompose them[/h]

The soil found in household gardens is usually neutral and not appropriate to support the growth of acidic plants. However, the acidity of the soil can be manipulated in a more controlled area such as a planter box. But, even if a killer purposely buried human remains in the most acidic soil, Fairgrieve said, they’d have to consistently drown it in water — and it would still take several years for the bones to decompose.

 

[Grey-St]

It is incredible how long fingerprints can be detected, I remember seeing an oldish tv show about forensic scientists trying to identify a young woman's body, can't remember how long she had been deceased but they placed her hand/hands in some sort of fluid and rehydrated what was left and the fingerprints appeared. A bit like when you spend a long time in the bath and your fingers puff up.

What I do wonder though is how none of the poor victims' remains in the planters were not detected by a pet, or a visitor's dog? I suppose that is part of the deranged psychopathic thinking, really it was a huge risk by McArthur as surely there must have been some sort of dectable scent, even by humans, let alone animals. When you watered the planters or removed dead leaves/flowers? It is a smell that is very distinctive.

I wonder if Andrew Kinsman and Bruce McArthur were caught on CCTV together somewhere close to the date of his disappearance and someone in the area was able to identify McArthur? There's no doubt this is going to be a landmark investigation and I hope that in time a lot of important developments in policing can be learned from it. This thread has been horrifying and will probably get more horrifying but there have been a lot of really informative comments from the very committed contributors here, thank you for that.

Particularly in ways that perhaps studying these patterns, locations, similarities of disappearances, maybe computer programmes could be developed to pick these up and alert LE so that serial killers could be spotted earlier and lives could be saved. Apologies I can't remember who posted a while back about the criminologist who spotted the emerging pattern here and the journalist who kept pressing the issues. I think there are already ways of plotting victims which may pinpoint a likely area where the killer lives. Just hope there might be something to emerge out of this that will help stop the next monster earlier.

I agree. I don't necessarily fault LE for not being able to charge BM sooner, but I do fault them for not taking the disappearances of the victims more seriously. The "they could have chosen to go missing" narrative is incredibly tiresome and incompetent, imho.

I too, hope there is a lot to be learned from this investigation, particularly in terms of profiling serial killers, and investigating missing persons.

 

[Grey-St]

My brother Jon Riley went missing May 2013. Can someone pls post the timeline. You can see there is a gap during Project Houston. I tweeted the photo of the timeline but I don’t know how to add the photo to this thread. Here is the link. Thank you.

https://twitter.com/tikitales/status/967287784728805377

I sincerely hope you have answers soon. Your concern that your brother might be linked to this case is quite valid. My thoughts and love goes out to you.

 

[Jasper52]

I'm a bit behind, but do you have a link? I haven't read or seen so far that he's on suicide watch. I'm not discounting what you're confirming, I just want to read it/watch it for myself!

I agree, that from this sketch he looks like he's lost a significant amount of weight. That was the first thought I had when I saw it also.

Here it is;

Police tell CP24 McArthur is on suicide watch as he is held at Toronto South Detention Centre.

Alleged serial killer Bruce McArthur faces additional first-degree murder charge

 

[JDG]

One of the groups I was in had a person who said a neighbour of BM’s mysteriously died in his apartment. She said that every light was left on (odd for the gentleman) and some other disturbances, but it was never investigated further. I wish I still had access to the group to find exactly what was said. But it was BM’s actual neighbour in the apartment. People were questioning if he seen or heard something...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have a link to this incident please? Any further details? Thanks.

This is such a strange and wide ranging case. And, I fear, its only just begun.

 

[JDG]

I'm a bit behind, but do you have a link? I haven't read or seen so far that he's on suicide watch. I'm not discounting what you're confirming, I just want to read it/watch it for myself!

I agree, that from this sketch he looks like he's lost a significant amount of weight. That was the first thought I had when I saw it also.

SMH

As Matou said earlier, this guy would have kept hunting and killing, yet he's now on suicide watch.
So bloody sad what he's done and he can't take the heat. Makes me furious, beyond furious!
Oh the irony!! What a coward.

 

[lilymoon]

Yesterday, The Star reported some interesting facts regarding BM's 2001 assault case: (1) he immediately went to police HQ and reported he may have hurt someone; (2) at the 2003 sentencing he stated his life was a mess about what's happened to him; and (3) in addition to the court directive to cease taking 'poppers', the Crown attorney also cautioned the danger of doing so with a diagnosis of epilepsy while on anti-seizure meds (Dilantin).

 

[JDG]

Thanks Jasper52 and dotr for the links, while I was out playing. :great:

 

[dotr]

Yesterday, The Star reported some interesting facts regarding BM's 2001 assault case: (1) he immediately went to police HQ and reported he may have hurt someone; (2) at the 2003 sentencing he stated his life was a mess about what's happened to him; and (3) in addition to the court directive to cease taking 'poppers', the Crown attorney also cautioned the danger of doing so with a diagnosis of epilepsy while on anti-seizure meds (Dilantin).

Welcome to Ws lilymoon!
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...ry-for-all-the-pain-and-anger-ive-caused.html

Other conditions of McArthur’s sentence included a prohibition on taking illicit drugs and “poppers” — a chemical compound which can be inhaled prior to sex and is popular among some gay men.

“The reason for that is there was some suggestion that he may have taken poppers that day (of the assault). I believe the psychiatric report suggests that he takes them prior to sex,” Leshner said, adding McArthur had also been taking the antiseizure medication Dilantin.

“Given that he’s on Dilantin to begin with, I think it’s fair to say that everyone wants to keep him away from poppers since we have no idea what caused this incident.”

McArthur was also ordered to seek counselling for mental health issues, particularly for anger management. He was told to see his family physician within weeks of his sentencing, though his lawyer told the court McArthur was having trouble getting an appointment with his doctor due to the SARS outbreak in Toronto that year.

 

[AddyFinch]

Hmm..hope Crown has a great Neurologist on hand, incase defense tries the amnesy postictal card. Case hx’s of murder being committed by such.....yikes.....

 

[JDG]

Hmm..hope Crown has a great Neurologist on hand, incase defense tries the amnesy postictal card. Case hx’s of murder being committed by such.....yikes.....

Holy Batman!!!!!!

Could that be why he doesn't fit any profile of a serial killer? And, how many people are dead because of this??

NIH has a case study about it. A young man killed his mother after cluster seizures while in a postictal psychosis.

Yikes is right.