Canada - Bruce McArthur charged in murders of six men, Toronto, 2010-2017

[matou]

He was able to drive with epilepsy? I guess he hadn't had a seizure in a long time. I have some experience with epilepsy and know that sometimes one can go into a petit mal seizure and lose memory of what was said,etc. I've seen complete personality changes when this happened as well.

 

[JDG]

He was able to drive with epilepsy? I guess he hadn't had a seizure in a long time. I have some experience with epilepsy and know that sometimes one can go into a petit mal seizure and lose memory of what was said,etc. I've seen complete personality changes when this happened as well.

I don't think he would be at all concerned about driving restrictions if this is whats wrong. Probably unaware of reality?

According to the NIH case study, its treatable. That would mean, IF proven true, these murders could have probably have been avoided by treatment of the perp.

Matou, just looked up DOT, 6 months free of seizures and you get your licence back.
Lots of variations but usual is 6 months.

 

[dotr]

Did BM really have the condition, or would/could he have faked it to obtain the drugs?
speculation.
2011
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...epilepsy-drug-misuse-on-the-rise-2308422.html

A drug for epilepsy and anxiety is increasingly being misused by young people in the UK, researchers say.

Phenazepam was developed in the 1970s for the treatment of epilepsy, alcohol withdrawal syndrome, insomnia and anxiety.

In a letter to the British Medical Journal (BMJ), researchers from the University of Dundee said phenazepam was being used as a substitute for illegal drugs.


They have identified nine UK cases since January in which post-mortem blood samples contained phenazepam.

 

[JDG]

Good question dotr.

Its used for various things, some of which could be faked. i.e. insomnia or anxiety

When a doctor suspects epilepsy, one is sent to a neurologist for extensive testing to see what they're dealing with, so not as easy to fake. They use brain waves etc. (or they used to, not sure of more recent testing) so thats an electrical pattern in ones brain.

It sounds as if he had psychiatric reports at the time, had some awareness that he 'might' have harmed someone.......maybe he's moved along to full blown psychotic episodes.

Your link to the article is good though, as we know he liked to use poppers, so wasn't averse to drug use.

MOO

 

[lilymoon]

What I found MOST interesting from learning about BM being on Dilantin (at least in 2001) was the unknown interactions when combined with 'poppers' and (according to the article) not knowing WHAT caused the violent incident. Assuming no one could give a plausible motive at the time of sentencing; BM self-reported to be a mess, attorneys could not present one, and certainly not the victim.

Also fascinating, is the fact that BM went directly to LE and turned himself in after the 2001 assault. Look how far the pendulum has swung since 2001: from immediately confessing to a physical assault to the present day's repeated murder, planning and hiding remains for years; in silence.

 

[matou]

Good question dotr.

Its used for various things, some of which could be faked. i.e. insomnia or anxiety

When a doctor suspects epilepsy, one is sent to a neurologist for extensive testing to see what they're dealing with, so not as easy to fake. They use brain waves etc. (or they used to, not sure of more recent testing) so thats an electrical pattern in ones brain.

It sounds as if he had psychiatric reports at the time, had some awareness that he 'might' have harmed someone.......maybe he's moved along to full blown psychotic episodes.

Your link to the article is good though, as we know he liked to use poppers, so wasn't averse to drug use.

MOO

People fake it to get disability or out of repaying credit card debts, etc.

 

[JDG]

People fake it to get disability or out of repaying credit card debts, etc.

Are you speaking of epilepsy? How would that get you off the hook for debts and credit cards?

If you used a 'medical disability' to rid yourself of debt, would you not just lose the use of the credit??

IIRC, he had a bankruptcy around the time of his divorce, which is around the time of his criminal charges.

 

[matou]

Are you speaking of epilepsy? How would that get you off the hook for debts and credit cards?

If you used a 'medical disability' to rid yourself of debt, would you not just lose the use of the credit??

IIRC, he had a bankruptcy around the time of his divorce, which is around the time of his criminal charges.

Someone I know made insurance payments on his CC's. This was around 20 years ago. Had CC cleared after claiming seizures to his doctor. Don't know if CC's have optional insurance anymore.

 

[JDG]

Someone I know made insurance payments on his CC's. This was around 20 years ago. Had CC cleared after claiming seizures to his doctor. Don't know if CC's have optional insurance anymore.

Thank you. Yes, they certainly used to, you pay monthly so that if you get sick, they make the payments.
I had forgotten that fact. The banks used to just start the payments up and it was up to the customer to ask to have them cease.

Was the person not sent to a neurologist for testing? He faked and received a medical note for seizures on word alone? My GP would hustle one off to the nearest neuro asap

 

[matou]

Thank you. Yes, they certainly used to, you pay monthly so that if you get sick, they make the payments.
I had forgotten that fact. The banks used to just start the payments up and it was up to the customer to ask to have them cease.

Was the person not sent to a neurologist for testing? He faked and received a medical note for seizures on word alone? My GP would hustle one off to the nearest neuro asap

I don't know. He never had any seizure though. He got off the hook for thousands.

 

[matou]

I wonder why McArthur wasn't working at the Macgregor sock job anymore. Did he quit? Was he fired? What happened that he went bankrupt? Why did he become a landscaper? Was it to be his own boss or something else?

 

[dotr]

I wonder why McArthur wasn't working at the Macgregor sock job anymore. Did he quit? Was he fired? What happened that he went bankrupt? Why did he become a landscaper? Was it to be his own boss or something else?

Thinking that he realized he could combine both passions and earn money at the same time.
He allegedly liked to kill and needed places to stash his victims, yet still have access to them and he apparently had a flair for flower design and gardening.
He got to be boss and perhaps that helped bring him potential vulnerable victims.
Maybe even saved him some money too.
Complete speculation, imo.
rbbm.

 

[lilymoon]

All good questions matou!

So many things in this case are in such striking contrast to one another. Married - divorced; straight - gay; country - city; traveling salesman - local landscaper; gentle - violent; family man - murderer, etc.

A recent CBC article provided some good, albeit brief insight into the minds of serials killers. This article stated, typically serial killers use their occupations to scout locations and acquire victims. It further stated that investigators look closely at the connection between occupation and opportunity.

Again, the contrasts, now in questions: could the connection be in any order; become a landscaper in order to hide remains?


​http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bruce-mcarthur-serial-killers-robert-pickton-1.4509608

 

[brightii]

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...d-by-memories-of-a-man-with-a-good-heart.html

Soroush Mahmudi’s wife, Fareena spoke with The Star about her husband.

It’s all so sad for the victims and those left to wonder what became of their loved one. Theirs is a complicated grieving process.

BM has left so much heartache behind him. I know I will never be able to fathom him or his motivations.

Thanks to all members for posting articles and information!

All MOO

 

[JDG]

All good questions matou!

So many things in this case are in such striking contrast to one another. Married - divorced; straight - gay; country - city; traveling salesman - local landscaper; gentle - violent; family man - murderer, etc.

A recent CBC article provided some good, albeit brief insight into the minds of serials killers. This article stated, typically serial killers use their occupations to scout locations and acquire victims. It further stated that investigators look closely at the connection between occupation and opportunity.

Again, the contrasts, now in questions: could the connection be in any order; become a landscaper in order to hide remains?


​http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bruce-mcarthur-serial-killers-robert-pickton-1.4509608

And, as Det. Idsinga said, all of these traits give us some insight into why its so hard for the police to catch these people.

BM was hiding in plain sight.

To kill is one thing, to dismember another but to then place them in planters left at homes around the city, totally another.

He says he's never seen anything like this.

 

[lilymoon]

An article with pictures where BM is currently being held, Toronto South Detention Centre.

https://nowtoronto.com/news/see-inside-tos-newest-jail/

 

[Maple]

I'm new here and haven't yet had a chance to read all the comments posted, but does anyone know if LE has specified whether they have found Selim Esen's remains, and if so, whether it was found at the Mallory property? I ask because CBC reported back in mid Jan that LE "removed several plastic crates and bins, along with a grey suitcase" and there is a photo of Mr. Selim with a silver/grey suitcase and LE "say he's often seen with the silver suitcase."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bruce-mcarthur-murder-scarborough-kinsman-1.4496406

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-t...disappearance-of-two-men-in-toronto-1.3522834

 

[matou]

I'm new here and haven't yet had a chance to read all the comments posted, but does anyone know if LE has specified whether they have found Selim Esen's remains, and if so, whether it was found at the Mallory property? I ask because CBC reported back in mid Jan that LE "removed several plastic crates and bins, along with a grey suitcase" and there is a photo of Mr. Selim with a silver/grey suitcase and LE "say he's often seen with the silver suitcase."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bruce-mcarthur-murder-scarborough-kinsman-1.4496406

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-t...disappearance-of-two-men-in-toronto-1.3522834

Good point on the suitcase! I don't think his remains have been identified. Only 3 have been ID'd via human remains so far.

 

[lilymoon]

Per yesterday's press conference, so far, only 3 remains have been identified: A. Kinsman, S. Mahmudi and S. Navaratnam.

 

[Maple]

Just total speculation here - and questioning - whether Selim Esen's remains may be at the Scarborough property:
BM was charged with Selim Esen's murder (who went missing in Apr 2017), and his remains haven't (yet) been connected/linked to those found at the Mallory property;

The Scarborough property was searched by LE/forensic units in Jan and house was under construction during part of the summer 2017 (as per a neighour who was interviewed by CBC) and house sold in Dec 2017 or early Jan 2018, but new owners have not yet taken possession. An internet-video listing of the Scarborough house shows numerous planters at the front and back of the house.

Just speculating...