Canada - Bruce McArthur- Pleads Guilty - murders of 8 men, Toronto, 2010-2017 #2

[Bravo]

Thanks dotr. Plan to watch this eve.

 

[matou]

The show mentioned the website Murder Accountability Project. Out of over 800,000 murders that are similar to the ones in this case, only 3 were committed by someone aged 66 years old.

http://www.murderdata.org/

 

[519er]

Random thought of the evening, a high profile unsolved murder of the original owner of The Barn, a popular gay bar in toronto. His ex boyfriend was found not guilty, and i dont believe anyone else was charged. Janko Naglic was found bound and gagged in his own home in October 2004. There was a lot of talk back then that it may have been accidental because Janko was known to be into BDSM and specifically asphyxiation play. Now wondering if he may be an early victim of BM prior to utilizing his business. See pic, does he fit the profile?

https://www.dailyxtra.com/lover-char...-slaying-23450

I’m still thinking this could be connected to either of the two sprees. Didn’t see it mentioned on this episode.


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[dotr]

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1204829764001

[h=1]Murder in the Village[/h] [h=2]The Fifth Estate[/h] April 6, 2018

Season 43, Episode 20
45:02

 

[JDG]

Psychosis occurs with severe schizophrenia, a mental illness, and is usually time-limited, AFAIK. Psychopathy, which I think describes BM, is NOT an illness but a personality disorder. There's a huge difference. The Brockville case is heartbreaking, in that the son was in a state where he genuinely didn't know what he was doing, and his illness is now controlled. BM knew exactly what he was doing, and did it over a long period of time with planning and premeditation.

IF you have any medical information about BM to back up your diagnosis of psychopathy, please add the link.

I believe that psychopathy IS considered to be an illness. There are many personality disorders as well, some more severe than others. They don't necessarily come and go.

Psychosis isn't limited to schizophrenia, there are many varied reasons for psychosis medical and otherwise.
There is post partum psychosis, he didn't have that......some drugs cause psychosis along with many other causes.

What I was alluding to, was his history of epilepsy or of taking drugs for epilepsy. With certain seizure disorders, its known that one can have psychotic episodes and not be aware of what they are doing.
Thus, my concern of 'diminished capacity' being the outcome of a trial. It also fits with the episode where he harmed a man with a pipe, then ran to the police station to report that 'he may have harmed someone'.

IF BM has some neurogenic pathology, leading to some sort of episodes, how would/could you know what he was thinking? That is exactly where the law allows for 'doubt' to enter the picture, no??

IMO, its impossible for any of us to know much about BM, very little has been released (for obvious reasons) and most people who knew him, found him to be very personable.

As for the Brockville case, I haven't reviewed it recently, so cannot recall if he knew or not.

We may never know what ails BM or what he did/did not know during his killing sprees. It remains to be seen.

Im just glad that the police have him locked up and hope it stays that way until his death.

 

[Grey-St]

IF you have any medical information about BM to back up your diagnosis of psychopathy, please add the link.

I believe that psychopathy IS considered to be an illness. There are many personality disorders as well, some more severe than others. They don't necessarily come and go.

Psychosis isn't limited to schizophrenia, there are many varied reasons for psychosis medical and otherwise.
There is post partum psychosis, he didn't have that......some drugs cause psychosis along with many other causes.

What I was alluding to, was his history of epilepsy or of taking drugs for epilepsy. With certain seizure disorders, its known that one can have psychotic episodes and not be aware of what they are doing.
Thus, my concern of 'diminished capacity' being the outcome of a trial. It also fits with the episode where he harmed a man with a pipe, then ran to the police station to report that 'he may have harmed someone'.

IF BM has some neurogenic pathology, leading to some sort of episodes, how would/could you know what he was thinking? That is exactly where the law allows for 'doubt' to enter the picture, no??

IMO, its impossible for any of us to know much about BM, very little has been released (for obvious reasons) and most people who knew him, found him to be very personable.

As for the Brockville case, I haven't reviewed it recently, so cannot recall if he knew or not.

We may never know what ails BM or what he did/did not know during his killing sprees. It remains to be seen.

Im just glad that the police have him locked up and hope it stays that way until his death.

I see where you're going with this and appreciate your concern regarding a possible defense, but it doesn't seem like BM was suffering from psychosis. People who commit reactionary or heinous acts during psychosis are generally confused and distraught and caught in the act. Nothing is planned or premeditated, they are literally not themselves. It's true that we don't know for sure, but if we were to guess, it would seem that BM does lean more toward psychopathy. These were planned, deliberate, premeditated murders utilizing methods to avoid prosecution or discovery. That's not what psychosis looks like.

It's also true that psychopathy is not a mental illness. It's more of a "trait". It's complex and complicated, but you're aware of what you're doing, you've likely planned it, and are therefore held responsible for your crimes.

 

[JDG]

I see where you're going with this and appreciate your concern regarding a possible defense, but it doesn't seem like BM was suffering from psychosis. People who commit reactionary or heinous acts during psychosis are generally confused and distraught and caught in the act. Nothing is planned or premeditated, they are literally not themselves. It's true that we don't know for sure, but if we were to guess, it would seem that BM does lean more toward psychopathy. These were planned, deliberate, premeditated murders utilizing methods to avoid prosecution or discovery. That's not what psychosis looks like.

It's also true that psychopathy is not a mental illness. It's more of a "trait". It's complex and complicated, but you're aware of what you're doing, you've likely planned it, and are therefore held responsible for your crimes.

Postictal psychosis.....happens after seizures, can be very dangerous and can be violent or end in deaths.

thats where Im going with this and BM has taken drugs for epilepsy in the past.

Please read the professional articles about it, not Wiki.

We have NO proof, as yet, that these murders were planned, deliberate or premeditated. None.

If he has a history of cluster seizures, its just as probable that he was not aware while killing these men.

He was a lover of some of these men, was he not? Just curious.....

 

[junebuggy]

Postictal psychosis.....happens after seizures, can be very dangerous and can be violent or end in deaths.

thats where Im going with this and BM has taken drugs for epilepsy in the past.

Please read the professional articles about it, not Wiki.

We have NO proof, as yet, that these murders were planned, deliberate or premeditated. None.

If he has a history of cluster seizures, its just as probable that he was not aware while killing these men.

He was a lover of some of these men, was he not? Just curious.....

Really? We are now trying to rationalize his behavior, I see. Some people are just evil, no explanations or cluster headaches or psychosis involved. It must be nice to always be given the benefit of doubt.

I wonder how many people he has to kill to elevate him to evil.....

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

 

[RosalindaA]

Postictal psychosis.....happens after seizures, can be very dangerous and can be violent or end in deaths.

thats where Im going with this and BM has taken drugs for epilepsy in the past.

Please read the professional articles about it, not Wiki.

We have NO proof, as yet, that these murders were planned, deliberate or premeditated. None.

If he has a history of cluster seizures, its just as probable that he was not aware while killing these men.

He was a lover of some of these men, was he not? Just curious.....

Certainly I can see McArthur's defense attorneys leaping upon possible epilepsy in desperation as he doesn't have much else going for him. But as someone who worked with a patient who suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy for about 2 years who exhibited aggressive, psychotic behaviour that was clearly associated with it, I can't see any credible doctor testifying that it would account for a series of murders.

Another thought that occurred is that it seems likely that the murders were carried out in the context of sexual encounters. As far as I know epileptic activity is likely to cause sexual dysfunction, along with dysfunction of a lot of other faculties. People may seem conscious but they may stagger, slur speech and certainly be incapable of efficient activity like killing someone, dismembering them and cleaning up after themselves. And then having convenient memory loss each and every time when you've finished doing all that.

Certainly since watching a few trials I've been frankly amazed at the flights of fantasy that some defense lawyers go off on and that they are allowed to get away with it. And that some gullible juries even believe them! But even I can't believe that this could ever stand up as a defense for a serial killer under the radar for so long.

My guess is that McArthur is a sexual sadist who likes to control and enjoys taking his anger out on others. And gay men in relationships with a man like this are likely to eventually become a victim of violence (perhaps when they try and break free or have a conflict with them) as women would be. Although of course they would normally have a physical advantage (able to fight back on a more level playing field), but not if they have been tied up or drugged obviously.
I think using epilepsy as a defense would just make them look desperate and ridiculous. McArthur's lawyer should be persuading him to plead guilty and spare the families. He has no defense.

 

[nuff]

We have NO proof, as yet, that these murders were planned, deliberate or premeditated. None.

.....

But there is abundant evidence of his behaviour after the fact, which reflects both knowledge of what he did, that it was wrong and should be hidden, and a good deal of strategic behaviour. I think it's very suggestive of psychopathy. And we know he filmed his victims either during or after killing. That is not the behaviour of a person in the grip of psychosis.

 

[nuff]

As for the Brockville case, I haven't reviewed it recently, so cannot recall if he knew or not.

[/QUOTE ]

http://projects.thestar.com/what-michael-stewart-did/

I find it inappropriate to mention Michael Stewart in the context of what BM allegedly did. His was a heartbreaking case. I believe there was a documentary as well, but haven't looked for it recently.

 

[Grey-St]

Postictal psychosis.....happens after seizures, can be very dangerous and can be violent or end in deaths.

thats where Im going with this and BM has taken drugs for epilepsy in the past.

Please read the professional articles about it, not Wiki.

We have NO proof, as yet, that these murders were planned, deliberate or premeditated. None.

If he has a history of cluster seizures, its just as probable that he was not aware while killing these men.

He was a lover of some of these men, was he not? Just curious.....

Yes, I'm aware that psychosis can occur after a seizure. However, I still just don't believe this is something he was suffering from. His behaviour is not that of someone in psychosis, IMO. We don't have all the information LE has, this is also true, but it's my belief that these murders were planned, deliberate or premeditated based on the charges, and his very calculated methods to remain undetected and avoid discovery.

Him being in some sort of relationship with some of these men doesn't really mean much to me, to be completely honest.

 

[bellainka]

Is this BM? Or just someone that looks like him? <a href="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/commercial-photography/"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/Lu3aS42.jpg" alt="Commercial Photography"></a>

 

[Maple]

Is this BM? Or just someone that looks like him? <a href="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/commercial-photography/"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/Lu3aS42.jpg" alt="Commercial Photography"></a>

IMO, just someone who resembles him, slightly.

 

[Maple]

http://ask4news.com/bruce-mcarthur-...igator-det-sgt-hank-idsinga-the-fifth-estate/

At 31 seconds into this video, Det. Idsinga describes BM as "a prototypical serial killer..." Worth watching.

 

[Satchie]

Originally Posted by JDG

We have NO proof, as yet, that these murders were planned, deliberate or premeditated. None.

I don't think a serial killer has ever been charged with anything other than 1st degree murder, ie never a string of 2nd degree murders, or manslaughters.

Don't know the exact legal reason, but I think the assumption is, if you did it once, and recognized the consequences well enough to cover it up, then there's no possibility the subsequent murders were not deliberate.

If it was a harrowing experience, you'd make sure it never happened again. Go get help, never put yourself in that situation again.

It's very, very rare for someone to kill one person. If it keeps happening, IMO the pattern is all they need to prove intent.

 

[cybervampira]

McClelland & Stewart to publish investigation into accused serial killer Bruce McArthur
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...d-serial-killer-bruce-mcarthur-679175693.html
TORONTO, April 9, 2018 /CNW/ - McClelland & Stewart announces the forthcoming publication of a book by journalist Justin Ling about the murders of at least seven men who disappeared from Toronto's Gay Village. The deal was arranged by agent Martha Webb at CookeMcDermid, and the as-yet-untitled work will be published in Canada in print and digital formats in 2019.

McClelland & Stewart publisher Jared Bland said, "All of us at McClelland & Stewart have been enormously impressed by the depth and sensitivity of Justin Ling's reporting on this case. We're honoured to be working with Justin to bring what we know will be a rigorous, tragic, and resonant story about the failures of our social and political systems to readers across the country."

Based on Ling's extensive reporting for Vice News and The Globe and Mail, the book will chronicle the events surrounding the disappearance of the men from Toronto's Gay Village, beginning in 2010; the LGBTQ community's frustration with deficiencies in the police response to missing persons cases; and the Toronto Police Service's investigation, including their 2013 interview with McArthur, years before his arrest, and who is now charged with six counts of first-degree murder.

[...]

 

[Grey-St]

McClelland & Stewart to publish investigation into accused serial killer Bruce McArthur
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...d-serial-killer-bruce-mcarthur-679175693.html
TORONTO, April 9, 2018 /CNW/ - McClelland & Stewart announces the forthcoming publication of a book by journalist Justin Ling about the murders of at least seven men who disappeared from Toronto's Gay Village. The deal was arranged by agent Martha Webb at CookeMcDermid, and the as-yet-untitled work will be published in Canada in print and digital formats in 2019.

McClelland & Stewart publisher Jared Bland said, "All of us at McClelland & Stewart have been enormously impressed by the depth and sensitivity of Justin Ling's reporting on this case. We're honoured to be working with Justin to bring what we know will be a rigorous, tragic, and resonant story about the failures of our social and political systems to readers across the country."

Based on Ling's extensive reporting for Vice News and The Globe and Mail, the book will chronicle the events surrounding the disappearance of the men from Toronto's Gay Village, beginning in 2010; the LGBTQ community's frustration with deficiencies in the police response to missing persons cases; and the Toronto Police Service's investigation, including their 2013 interview with McArthur, years before his arrest, and who is now charged with six counts of first-degree murder.

[...]

Justin Ling totally deserves this. No doubt this will be a great read.

 

[matou]

Catherine McDonald Verified account

@cmcdonaldglobal
4m4 minutes ago


#BREAKING Investigators with Toronto Police Homicide confirm to me that there will be an update in the investigation into alleged serial killer Bruce McArthur tomorrow at 1:30 pm. I will be there. McArthur will be in court via video in the morning @globalnewsto @TPSHomicide

 

[matou]

Was McArthur scheduled to be in court tomorrow? Did this just come up today? If so, maybe more charges?