CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1

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Using the information from KJessop, I’ll attempt to sketch out a scenario of Christine’s movements and what may have actually occurred on October 3, 1984.

And, KJessop –feel free to correct me wherever you feel I have made errors or have gone too far with my imagination.

Christine got off her school bus at approximately 3:45/3:50 pm.

She went into the house, dropped off the mail she had gathered from the end of the driveway as well as her school bag. Shortly thereafter, Christine got onto her bicycle and rode to the corner store to get some gum.

Christine did not go to the park or ever intend to meet Leslie Chipman at the park because the two of them were not on friendly terms. Leslie Chipman’s claims – that she and Christine had agreed to meet at the park with their Cabbage Patch dolls that day were, at best, a fabrication - or a creative embellishment on her part. Since Christine’s doll was eventually found in her room at home – this indicates that she never intended to meet Leslie in the park with her doll.

After purchasing her gum at the store, Christine rode her bicycle back to the Jessop house, at which point she encountered JP (name redacted) in a blue car waiting at the end of the driveway. Christine knew JP or knew of his acquaintance with her father (Bob Jessop) so she felt at ease with him or there was a certain amount of trust with him.

JP spoke to Christine and likely told her that he intended to go visit her father at the detention center right then - and would she like to come with him? Christine leapt at the chance, hurried up the driveway to the house, and in her hurry - she did not secure her bicycle properly in the back shed.

JP waited in the blue car for her at the end of the driveway. (Or, perhaps he drove his car up to the house?)

Christine fetched her recorder from within the house (to show her father?) and then got into the blue car with JP and they drove off together. Christine’s bicycle fell over on its own after they left, or it fell over as Christine hurried to the car in the hopes of soon seeing her dad. In her excitement, she did not think to leave a note for her mother.

When Christine's mother and brother arrived home, they found her bike in a fallen state and the house empty.


Questions for KJessop:

1. Do you know if Christine actually knew JP?

2. How many times would Christine have come into contact with JP prior to her abduction, or how many times would he have had opportunity to observe her? (I’m not expecting an exact number… I’m wondering more about frequency of opportunity. Example: did Christine visit the Co-op with her father and maybe encounter him there?)

3. Where did JP live in 1984?

4. Where were JP's daughters when they saw his car at the end of the Jessop driveway on October 3?

5. Is there a connection between JP and the Culls’ property?

6. Any ideas where JP might have taken Christine first after driving off with her?

Thanks in advance.
 
The co-op was at the start of the hill going east on queensville sideroad.... And we were at the top of the hill. Go there in person.. Remember the trees were 25 years shorter then...

I know what you mean about the trees.

Do I have the location of the Co-op correct in the Google image?
I think I do... it's at the base of the hill going east. Looks like the typical Co-ops we had around in my neck of the woods growing up.
 
Christine knew him well, she was a daddy's girl, and since we had chickens, and they were considered Chrissys, she was in charge of going to the co-op to get feed for them with my dad... So she saw him regularly....
 
Questions for KJessop:

1. Do you know if Christine actually knew JP?
Answered

2. How many times would Christine have come into contact with JP prior to her abduction, or how many times would he have had opportunity to observe her? (I’m not expecting an exact number… I’m wondering more about frequency of opportunity. Example: did Christine visit the Co-op with her father and maybe encounter him there?)
Answered

3. Where did JP live in 1984?
Just north of our house in the flats

4. Where were JP's daughters when they saw his car at the end of the Jessop driveway on October 3?
Going by our house on the schoolbus

5. Is there a connection between JP and the Culls’ property?
no idea

6. Any ideas where JP might have taken Christine first after driving off with her?
North, thats why a man in a blue car was seen forcing a girl down at ravenshoe... She knew the way to Toronto.
And the recorder was with her proving it was the go see dad ploy. As she knew I had taken my medals from the night b4 to see him.
 
I have the same question as Dedpanman. What was the relationship between JP and the Sunderland property? I really, really cannot see him finding that spot randomly.

In my opinion, he had to have a link to the owner of the trailor or one of the neighbours in that vicinity of where Christine was found near Sunderland/Sonya.

That trailor location is almost at the end of Concession#4 (coming from the west)....there was many, many other places to stop even along Concession #4....but no, the perp went down a driveway that curves so you cannot see past the curve to where the trailor sat (surrounded by bush/trees)..

KJ: I see that you answered that you have no idea if JP had a connection to the trailor owner.
 
KJessop... the answers to the following questions could help us flesh out the abduction scenario you’re describing. If you wouldn't mind...?

1. Does the scenario I sketched out above seem to be close to the one you have in your mind? Where do you disagree or where does your thinking diverge?

2. Do you think that there is any possibility that JP took Christine to his house before leaving town with her? (I’m thinking no – as JP’s daughters would probably have been home from school by then if they had observed his car at the end of the Jessop driveway as they were heading north (?) on a bus - but I'm wondering about your thoughts.)

3. I have not seen the Fifth Estate episode “Odd Man Out” so I don’t know the details about the man who saw the incident in the blue car at Ravenshoe Road. What was the approximate time of that?

4. Do you have any inside information concerning other related-but-unreported crimes JP committed prior to Christine - or after that you could share here? (This would help us flesh out a suspect profile for him. You don’t have to name names of victims.)

Thanks in advance.
 
Any chance dna from a biological daughter of the poi could be obtained and used in a dna comparison? By the sounds of things the Police are going to maintain that the bio son of the poi has been tested and cleared.
 
Simple answer is yes, it is possible.
example found at-
http://mjlst.umn.edu/prod/groups/ahc/@pub/@ahc/@mjlst/documents/asset/ahc_asset_365983.pdf

44. There are reports that this was done in Wichita to see if Dennis Rader might be the notorious BTK killer. See Readers Still Want Answers on BTK, WICHITA EAGLE, July 3, 2005 (reporting that
In an effort to hide from Rader that they were zeroing in on him as a BTK suspect, investigators obtained a subpoena for his daughter’s DNA from a tissue sample stored at a medical clinic in Kansas. It was processed within a week before Rader’s arrest on Feb. 25. After Rader was arrested, authorities took a DNA sample from his daughter at her Michigan home to help confirm earlier test results.).
 
I realize there are many questions lined up for KJessop, but would like to add one or two while this new information is fresh in everyone's minds.

KJessop - in post # 1129, you advise that 2 of JP's daughters reported to York Region Police that they saw a blue car in your driveway on the afternoon of 3 October 1984.

Did they report it was a blue car, or their fathers blue car?

Are these daughters (3 in total you mention) bio daughters or step-daughters?

In post # 1111, you advise that JP was reported to your lawyer during the inquiry which was 1997/98. This was a second report then on this man.

In 1996 Toronto Police (Neale Tweedy task force) began massive DNA testing on those close to the inner circle of your family and moved out to others. It seems that would have been an opportunity to put this second report to rest with a DNA test. Was JP deceased by this time?

On the older couple that reported seeing a child held down in a blue car that day, you advise in post #1129 this was reported to Durham Region Police. That would indicate they only came forward when Christine was found, not when she was missing.

2 small clarifications in post #1129.

Atkinson is reported a number of times as having seen Christine speaking to other children at the store - he could not have said she was waiting at the traffic light, as there was no traffic light at that intersection in 1984.

I wasn't thinking of Kim Waarner when asking about the store owner changing their mind on whether or not your mom went to the store that day.
 
Is the detective Kjessop (under a different moniker on UC) says was the father of the abusers of him and other kids in QV the same detective involved in the Sharin Keenan case who 1. said Sharin was lured by a one dollar bill (on the W5 show this makes Sharin's Mom visibly angry she thinks it is a ludicrous theory) and 2. went on the fishing expedition with Dennys Melvin Howe associate drinking buddy OH out west supposedly to look for someone matching Howe's description? They failed to go to Prince Albert where the Pen is and where Howe had been.

For anyone who doesn't know the case Dotr recently found an article from a Lethbridge Alberta newspaper and linked to it on the discussion about Sharin Morningstar Keenan it outlines the trip out west.

Only the last name is given on UC and it is possible I am mixing something up here but I don't think so.

By the way just want to state clearly we don't know whether the poster here is Christine's brother same thing on UC also these are of course his allegations so I am not dissing the Toronto detective or his sons but as I understand it these are Christine's brothers allegations (not proven etc). And I don't know for sure if it is the same person but the name if not super common and same police force supposing all of this info (KJessops and media's) is accurate which it may or may not be of course.
 
I agree on the lack of source information Chorley8 and glad you posted.

We are being asked to disregard all that is written on this case and instead believe entirely different information that cannot be verified by someone that is so far unverified.

Very strange for this to have gone on this long.
 
Thanks Woodland and in the interim I have a question for you or anyone who knows the area up there well I don't drive unfortunately so can't get out there easily.

Question: is Mount Albert a town that would come into play in terms of residents likely familiarity with Queensville and the scene where Christine was found? I would think yes but don't know.

My previous post and some Canada 411 searching might explain my question though of course residency now and then are two different things.

Also does anyone know if there is a directory (as in the equivalent of say the old Toronto city directories now defunct) where we could research residency at that time in QV and Sunderland and points adjacent?

Also I know WL you did some records searching or historical searching what are the relevant libaries/offices to search? Thanks as I say it would take me some trouble but I might even splurge for an off duty cab to take me one day.
 
Mount Albert is a short distance southeast of Queensville - familiar to Queensville residents no doubt, and possibly familiar to Sunderland residents.

The information you are after Chorley8 might be readily available at the University of Toronto library if that would be easier to get to (serviced by various transit routes). There are many directories available there for areas outside Toronto, but up to what year I don't know.

I didn't find the Newmarket library all that exciting for historical records, Uxbridge was somewhat better.

U of T library may have voter lists for areas outside Toronto as well - you should be able to call or look online for resources they have available.

Would very much look forward to such information.
 
Just want to say I am so impressed with the work done on CJ's case. You guys are simply amazing!
 
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/westview/a-little-spit-could-catch-a-killer-134168263.html

"A decade ago the Canadian Police Association banded with the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police and unsuccessfully pushed to have DNA samples taken from criminals in ways parallel to the long-accepted practice of taking fingerprints.

They pointed to the 1984 case of Christine Jessop. Raped and murdered, the smiley nine-year-old died with a heart full of fear before her body was discarded in some bush 50 kilometres from her southern Ontario home. Guy Paul Morin was arrested, convicted and went to jail. Unquestioned DNA later proved him innocent.

Today, the real killer's DNA is floating around in the national data bank waiting for a match. And it's all but incomprehensible that someone who could commit such a heinous crime has not had some criminal contact with authorities and as such, his DNA could and should be available for automatic computer comparison.

Wanted to add this article in response to the Winnipeg Free Press article, which quotes the Canadian Association of Chief's of Police.
The PTSD content is not the point, rather that the Ontario Ombudsman caught the Ontario Association of Chief's of Police in a lie.

Why any group of Chief's of Police has to lie to the public, the Ombudsman or their subordinates is beyond me, unless of course they have something to hide. I do not see where the greater good is a reason.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/10/opp-whistleblower-still-climbing-out-of-dark-pit

The Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, for example, once assured Kruger — and I have copies of the correspondence — that it had struck an ad hoc committee as far back as 2009 to deal with PTSD.

But no such committee existed.
 
Why bash her face in AND decapitate her AND leave her head with the body in a different position while having her head balled up in her sweaters?
 
Why bash her face in AND decapitate her AND leave her head with the body in a different position while having her head balled up in her sweaters?

Such a horrible thing (if accurate) but all the more so because imo, a" head balled up in sweaters", evokes the image of a " swaddled" baby and head placement - a birth.
 
It would be helpful to have a readable reference for head placement being something other than off to the side.
 
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