Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 *killer identified* #3
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Arnie M
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Good question ..... for sexual motives Christine and Audrey are as different as night and day ..... but that may not be the only motive in those cases .... there was also a sadistic hatred as can be seen by the multiple stab wounds and mutilations on both victims .... that is the common denominator (sadistic hatred) rather than just sexual deviance so who the victim is is not as important as simply having a victim who is female.
Yes, has to be a typo. Another seemingly minor error in a long list of things that makes everything just a little more confusing.
You're asking questions that would be logical in the context of a normal investigation...
This was treated as a missing persons case at the beginning. There were ordinary people mingling with police at the family home that evening. You had a rural police force, with no himicide unit, trying to frame the neighbour because they had nothing else to go on. It is entirely possibly that Hoover was eliminated as a suspect because he helped search for her and attended the funeral.
You also had inconsistent reports from the family about the timing that afternoon, etc. which might explain why the police didn't know, or investigate, who JJ talked to on the phone about their plans that day.
Forest_Wood
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How did police miss Calvin Hoover during lengthy Christine Jessop investigation? Group calls for ‘targeted’ review
I hope the TPS is able to come up with a satisfactory investigation into Hoover so that everyone can fully understand his movements and activities over all these years. Would another enquiry be necessary over and above a thorough police investigation though? I have the sense that lawsuits will be forthcoming, but not from GPM.
I hope the TPS is able to come up with a satisfactory investigation into Hoover so that everyone can fully understand his movements and activities over all these years. Would another enquiry be necessary over and above a thorough police investigation though? I have the sense that lawsuits will be forthcoming, but not from GPM.
Legal group calls for review of Christine Jessop investigation by Durham and Toronto police
October 27, 2020
"Meagan Gray, a spokeswoman for Toronto police, said that the force understands Innocence Canada's position but noted that police investigation of the case is ongoing."
October 27, 2020
"Meagan Gray, a spokeswoman for Toronto police, said that the force understands Innocence Canada's position but noted that police investigation of the case is ongoing."
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LISTEN: Joe Warmington discusses the solving of Christine Jessop's murder | Toronto Sun
October 27, 2020
Podcast, "... Dave Brekinridge is joined by Toronto Sun columnist Joe Warmington by phone to talk about the historic case"
Wrt 2015 police contact with CH
@15:50
"You know there's different versions of it.
But Ken Jessop, Christine Jessop's brother told me that what the police told him is that they were doing a routine knock on the door and he talked to the officers and I guess he must of because he had this hanging over him in the back of his memory and obviously conscience. He just hanged himself.
Wow
But they weren't on to him yet. In fact they weren't on to him until it came back with the profile from the geneology people in the States. ...
Chris Doucette, the great police reporter, told me that
and I don't want to contradict what Ken told me.
But Chris said he was told that they were talking to him about a fraud investigation. It wasn't about the thing with Christine Jessop.
But you know, the police when they're doing things. They may tell you one thing and they may be doing something completley different. They may not want to spook him. They were talking about a fraud investigation just to see where he's at. You know, and see how he reacts."
October 27, 2020
Podcast, "... Dave Brekinridge is joined by Toronto Sun columnist Joe Warmington by phone to talk about the historic case"
Wrt 2015 police contact with CH
@15:50
"You know there's different versions of it.
But Ken Jessop, Christine Jessop's brother told me that what the police told him is that they were doing a routine knock on the door and he talked to the officers and I guess he must of because he had this hanging over him in the back of his memory and obviously conscience. He just hanged himself.
Wow
But they weren't on to him yet. In fact they weren't on to him until it came back with the profile from the geneology people in the States. ...
Chris Doucette, the great police reporter, told me that
and I don't want to contradict what Ken told me.
But Chris said he was told that they were talking to him about a fraud investigation. It wasn't about the thing with Christine Jessop.
But you know, the police when they're doing things. They may tell you one thing and they may be doing something completley different. They may not want to spook him. They were talking about a fraud investigation just to see where he's at. You know, and see how he reacts."
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IF Hoover was to be considered responsible for Audrey's murder, he could possibly fall into the category of either morally indiscriminate or inadequate behaviour. IIRC, Audrey's murder was staged as was Christine's.
Excerpt from:
Differentiating child sexual abusers
Dr Michael Davis MAPS, Centre for Forensic Behavioural Science, Monash University
[...]
The morally indiscriminate pattern of behaviour involves the sexual abuse of children as simply another form of antisocial behaviour in the offender’s life. A diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, and elevated levels of psychopathic personality features, are often found in these offenders. Victims are chosen due to vulnerability and opportunity. Force, lures or manipulation may be used and the victims may be abducted. Pubescent children are thought to be particular targets of such offenders. Canter and colleagues (1998) identified a comparable pattern of behaviour that they called the ‘criminal-opportunist’. These offences were characterised by stranger victims, outdoor offences, one-off offences, offender intoxication, offender ejaculation, and vaginal penetration.
Those who engage in the inadequate behaviour pattern include an array of withdrawn and 'unusual' individuals such as eccentric personalities, psychotic individuals, or those with an intellectual disability or senility. It is of course important to note that most people with these difficulties will not sexually abuse children. The inadequate offender does not have a sexual preference for children, but targets them because he finds them to be non-threatening. As such, these offenders may also target the elderly as well. Lanning (2010) reported that sexually-motivated child murders profiled by the FBI usually involved either the morally indiscriminate or inadequate patterns of behaviour.
[...]
<bbm>
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Forest_Wood
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I hope they will do a complete psychological profile on him based on his medical records and information gleaned about him. And then to inform the public — because for him to have avoided suspicion,we just need to know how somone like that went through life undetected. Do you think his ex wife will be forthcoming in what she knows? They reported the family was being cooperative. I wonder how honest and truthful she’ll be about all that she knew or even suspected about him, even things she saw before, during and after the event. Sometimes, people can’t be completely forthcoming when they feel they’ll be judged for not speaking up sooner. Not just his ex wife, but his kids must have observed certain behaviours in him. And how about his family of origin (siblings, cousins, etc). I often think of these psychopaths as loners but the reports say this guy had an active social life. I can’t imagine him socializing! I wonder what his upbringing was like.
MsBetsy
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Yes, I'm interested in all these things, too. I hope his ex-wife can provide a lot of insight, especially the details around the time of the disappearance. I don't see why she wouldn't be entirely forthcoming. They had been divorced for years and he is long gone now. She may be able to provide details about what led them to divorce and any mental health issues he may have had.
It may take some time, though. Investigators probably have many people to question and sometimes people remember things gradually over time. This must be very overwhelming for his family, especially his kids.
If he was a psychopath, though, he may have been very good at acting normal. The daughter of the BTK killer only knew a loving father. No-one who knew him could have dreamed he was capable of the crimes he committed.
IMO
Forest_Wood
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I guess where I was going here is that sometimes people might feel guilty for either having knowledge or susupecting their spouse (or family member) of something but not having addressed it. That might prevent full disclosure of certain relevant details from their fear of being judged by the public in this high profile case. For example, if he did come home later than usual that night and she remembers that, will she fear being judged for not suspecting him, and will her fear keep her from relaying the full truth. Hopefully a clear picture of him can be pieced together and I think TPS will do an excellent job this time.
Forest_Wood
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Yes! I think it will be a lengthy investigation for sure and very overwhelming for everyone related to him. It just goes to show how many lives can be impacted by one person’s actions in one moment of time.
MsBetsy
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Yes, I understand. The ex-wife or others may feel guilty if they did suspect him or saw warning signs and didn't take any action. Hopefully detectives can put their minds at ease and assure them that they will not be judged and they are just trying to put the pieces together.
However, it would be terrible if they find that someone knew that Hoover was responsible for the crime and never came forward. Especially if he went on to commit other similar crimes.
SweetPineapple
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I believe the BTK killer was also married with kids, and he lead a completely separate life from his family. Definitely a case I am going to look back into in regards to CH's behaviour, and how BTK's family described him.
I doubt TPS will disclose this to the public, but I'd really like to hear what CH was doing in the mid 80's and why he wasn't looked at. Innoncence Canada is right in that it will take a third party to analyze why CH was not a suspect as I doubt TPS will publicly go after Durham or York Police.
I read about BTK a while back. And recently again and he did have very random behaviours like attacking women verbally on the street and killing the neighbours dog (the neighbour came forward).
I find it is quite alarming behaviours and in today's standards not acceptable
Jessop file: Why has it taken so long? | Bhavan Sodhi - The Lawyer's Daily
October 29, 2020
"Christine's mother and brother have since added their voices and lent their support to Innocence Canada's demand for a carefully targeted review. Janet and Kenneth Jessop say than an independant review is the only way to supply the answers they need, and the authorities must account for how Hoover, who took part in the searches in 1984 and attended her funeral and wake, was not investigated until now. "Our prayers were answered on Oct. 15, 2020. But the answer was not justice. It was a kick in the teeth. With that answer came a million questions," Mr. Jessop said in a statement sent to Innocence Canada."
...
"On Tues., Oct. 27, the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney-General stated that it would be inappropriate to conduct an inquiry while the investigation of Hoover is ongoing. Arguably, this perceived impropriety can be alleviated by the ministry making a firm commitment now to convene an independent review when the Hoover investigation has concluded."
October 29, 2020
"Christine's mother and brother have since added their voices and lent their support to Innocence Canada's demand for a carefully targeted review. Janet and Kenneth Jessop say than an independant review is the only way to supply the answers they need, and the authorities must account for how Hoover, who took part in the searches in 1984 and attended her funeral and wake, was not investigated until now. "Our prayers were answered on Oct. 15, 2020. But the answer was not justice. It was a kick in the teeth. With that answer came a million questions," Mr. Jessop said in a statement sent to Innocence Canada."
...
"On Tues., Oct. 27, the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney-General stated that it would be inappropriate to conduct an inquiry while the investigation of Hoover is ongoing. Arguably, this perceived impropriety can be alleviated by the ministry making a firm commitment now to convene an independent review when the Hoover investigation has concluded."
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Andreee
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