Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Cormier, 19, St John, NB, 29 Sept 2013 - #2

[Truth Prevails]

Have been watching for any news of tox results, however I also believe that the police have it down to accidental so really can't see what tox results would do for anything. I still don't think it was an accident and I don't think Gen went in at the falls.

BBM - I agree.

It strange that they requested that, imo. They might be able to use something there to their advantage, iykwim.

This is just an excellent read, for anyone who has time. The brief portion I quoted below shows that they can tell quite a bit from where the bodies were found.

http://www2.sptimes.com/Angels_Demons/sunset.1.html

They spoke with tidal experts at the University of South Florida, who confirmed that, based on the flow of Tampa Bay waters and the locations where the bodies had been found, it would have been impossible for the bodies to have been dropped from land or from a bridge. In other words, there was growing evidence to support the theory that the three women had been invited to the boat ramp by someone who took them out in a boat and killed them.
Chapter 2, Page 4, 16th Paragraph: http://www2.sptimes.com/Angels_Demons/haunted.3.html

 

[OldSteve]

respectfully snipped:

...................
Gen was a beautiful and fashionable young woman. I can't see her wearing her purse inside her jacket, but maybe that's just me.

Just a thought ran thru my mind - if in fact her purse was found inside her jacket, would it be something a gal would do who through someone creepy was watching/following them?

Goes back to how few details have been released.

ETA - you are so right about "Gen was a beautiful and fashionable young woman"!!

 

[OldSteve]

Reading posts ^^ - does seem like doing a tox test after declaring no foul play was looking for evidence to support that... wouldn't it have been better to declared COD as "suspicious"?

Wonder if would affect any life insurance payout (as a general question since I have no idea if Gen had any)..

The tidal study done by Florida ^^ - is kinda of like the question I was wondering about here - if there was something about the currents that would bring different bodies to the same final location.

 

[GinaBeth]

I second this.

I had never heard of Frank magazine, but I did Googled it. Wow.

You're welcome, I could be jumping the gun publication date wise but I'm excited and a nagging influence.

 

[Truth Prevails]

respectfully snipped:




Just a thought ran thru my mind - if in fact her purse was found inside her jacket, would it be something a gal would do who through someone creepy was watching/following them?

Goes back to how few details have been released.

ETA - you are so right about "Gen was a beautiful and fashionable young woman"!!

BBM - Gosh, I hadn't thought of that.

Yes, it makes sense. Even if she didn't have much money with her, she was carrying her passport; and I'm sure she would have wanted to protect it.

Another possibility that just occurred to me is that someone may have redressed her in that way.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Reading posts ^^ - does seem like doing a tox test after declaring no foul play was looking for evidence to support that... wouldn't it have been better to declared COD as "suspicious"?

Had they done that though, the public would have been riveted. That's the last thing they wanted, imo.

Whether because they needed to stem the panic; or stem the pressure to solve, IDK.

Wonder if would affect any life insurance payout (as a general question since I have no idea if Gen had any)..

I haven't heard any mention of life insurance. I'm going out on a limb here, but I don't think it is common in this area for a young person to have life insurance. Maybe a small policy through her school, or something like that, though.

But remember, they tried to term it suicide until Gen's family spoke out.

The tidal study done by Florida ^^ - is kinda of like the question I was wondering about here - if there was something about the currents that would bring different bodies to the same final location.

One thing I'm sure of--the currents in that area have been studied and charted for years.

There are probably no 100% guarantees, but I believe someone with knowlege could come close; and quite possibly would enjoy the challenge.

And law enforcement should be able to recognize the effort.

Here are a couple of quotes that I came across that I find interesting. These are both old cases, and I realize that in neither case were the victims in the water as long as Genevieve possibly was; however, you can see that quite a lot of forensic evidence can be gathered when an effort is made.

And keep in mind that forensics has greatly advanced since the occurrence of these cases.

Even the question of how the three women were killed could not be answered with precision. The autopsies showed that they had died of asphyxiation, but the medical examiner could not determine whether they had drowned or been strangled by the ropes around their necks. Because the bodies had been in the water for several days, it was no longer possible to tell if there had been any sexual assault. Still, the most likely scenario appeared to be that the women had been tied and gagged, raped and then dropped into the water, one by one.

Chapter 2, Page 3, 7th Paragraph: http://www2.sptimes.com/Angels_Demons/haunted.3.html

Eight days later her body was found floating in the North Platte River near Casper, Wyoming, by a local fisherman. An autopsy determined that she had been bound, beaten and raped, for at least six days. Evidence showed that she was then taken to the Old Government Bridge, where she was hit on the head with a blunt object, stabbed six times in the chest and abdomen, before being thrown into the river. The autopsy showed that the head wound would have killed her in a matter of minutes even if she had not been stabbed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lil'_Miss_murder

 

[Truth Prevails]

You're welcome, I could be jumping the gun publication date wise but I'm excited and a nagging influence.

I'm so looking forward to it--he'll be my superhero if he dares to even try to put the pieces together for an audience like that.

I don't want to get my hopes up--but just to have the opposing opinion acknowledged will make me sleep a bit better.

Thank you for being a nagging influence!

 

[RainyAlaska]

If Gen had committed suicide, why would she have gone into the water with her purse? That doesn't make sense at all. She would have taken it off and left it on shore. It wasn't suicide.

I will concede that Gen might have fallen into the water by accident but that also seems doubtful. Unless she immediately hit her head and was unconcious, she would have taken the purse off so she could swim or stay afloat easier. The purse would have encumbered her ability to get out of the water (like heavy boots).

Anyone else see it that way or am I'm being too simplistic?

 

[jillybean51]

BBM - Gosh, I hadn't thought of that.

Yes, it makes sense. Even if she didn't have much money with her, she was carrying her passport; and I'm sure she would have wanted to protect it.

Another possibility that just occurred to me is that someone may have redressed her in that way.

I also recall that Sunday had been a beautiful warm day.Maybe Gen just had her purse across her shirt and was carrying her jacket,especially during her walk.Maybe by the time she was approaching the Falls,it had cooled off,as it does at the end of Sept ,in the afternoon ,and she just slid her jacket over her purse and shirt,as she was almost home ?

 

[Sandpiper]

I also recall that Sunday had been a beautiful warm day.Maybe Gen just had her purse across her shirt and was carrying her jacket,especially during her walk.Maybe by the time she was approaching the Falls,it had cooled off,as it does at the end of Sept ,in the afternoon ,and she just slid her jacket over her purse and shirt,as she was almost home ?

Good point Jillybean it was a beatiful day that sunday. It seemed summer had returned for one last kick at the can. I worked all day in the garden in short sleeves and light pants.

 

[Truth Prevails]

If Gen had committed suicide, why would she have gone into the water with her purse? That doesn't make sense at all. She would have taken it off and left it on shore. It wasn't suicide.

I will concede that Gen might have fallen into the water by accident but that also seems doubtful. Unless she immediately hit her head and was unconcious, she would have taken the purse off so she could swim or stay afloat easier. The purse would have encumbered her ability to get out of the water (like heavy boots).

Anyone else see it that way or am I'm being too simplistic?

I agree--it wasn't suicide.

I think we can officially rule it out as law enforcement seemed to back off the idea once Genevieve's family spoke out.

Plus by then they had already made their point through the media.

You know, I won't even concede that she fell into the water. The path is a safe distance from the embankment, and the embankment is covered with wild shrubs, wind swept trees, and jutting rocks.

Even if she somehow hit her head and became unconscious, she should have been lying on the path. Or at the very least, caught on the embankment by the brush.

I can't see how an unconscious person would have made it far enough down the cliff to have been caught in the tide.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I also recall that Sunday had been a beautiful warm day.Maybe Gen just had her purse across her shirt and was carrying her jacket,especially during her walk.Maybe by the time she was approaching the Falls,it had cooled off,as it does at the end of Sept ,in the afternoon ,and she just slid her jacket over her purse and shirt,as she was almost home ?

It was a nice day, no doubt about it.

http://www.friendlyforecast.com/can...egion=nb2&id=28&date=20130929000000&sort=hour

Well, I can only speak for myself, but when I was 19--unless I was scared and thinking someone was following me--I wouldn't have worn my purse under my coat.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Good point Jillybean it was a beatiful day that sunday. It seemed summer had returned for one last kick at the can. I worked all day in the garden in short sleeves and light pants.

Do you think maybe by 4:00 pm to to 4:30 pm, a light jacket might have been in order if you had had occasion to walk across the Reversing Falls Bridge?

I kind of think it would, but it's been a while since I lived there.

 

[jillybean51]

It was a nice day, no doubt about it.

http://www.friendlyforecast.com/can...egion=nb2&id=28&date=20130929000000&sort=hour

Well, I can only speak for myself, but when I was 19--unless I was scared and thinking someone was following me--I wouldn't have worn my purse under my coat.

I think it's highly possible that she knew she was being followed.If on foot,would LOVE to see the Ocean Steele pictures.If by car,I would have to think it was by someone she knew,who possibly could have driven ahead of her and turned into the Boaz parking lot and lie in waiting.Someone who knew exactly what direction she would be taking home....

 

[jillybean51]

Do you think maybe by 4:00 pm to to 4:30 pm, a light jacket might have been in order if you had had occasion to walk across the Reversing Falls Bridge?

I kind of think it would, but it's been a while since I lived there.

I definitely think so,it tends to cool off quickly by the ocean.Gen might have been warm and taken it off during her walk from town,or maybe didn't have it on to begin with...?

 

[OldSteve]

I agree--it wasn't suicide.

I think we can officially rule it out as law enforcement seemed to back off the idea once Genevieve's family spoke out.

Plus by then they had already made their point through the media.

You know, I won't even concede that she fell into the water. The path is a safe distance from the embankment, and the embankment is covered with wild shrubs, wind swept trees, and jutting rocks.

Even if she somehow hit her head and became unconscious, she should have been lying on the path. Or at the very least, caught on the embankment by the brush.

I can't see how an unconscious person would have made it far enough down the cliff to have been caught in the tide.

I could not have said what your wrote better - my thoughts to a tee!

 

[Truth Prevails]

I think it's highly possible that she knew she was being followed.If on foot,would LOVE to see the Ocean Steele pictures.If by car,I would have to think it was by someone she knew,who possibly could have driven ahead of her and turned into the Boaz parking lot and lie in waiting.Someone who knew exactly what direction she would be taking home....

Interesting.

I'm thinking more along the lines that she didn't know him at all; or if so, only very casually; and that he was hiding somewhere on the path.

He may have had a vehicle hid in there, and she saw it as she passed and then heard him exiting.

I, too, wish we could see the last photo of her taken near Ocean Steele.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I definitely think so,it tends to cool off quickly by the ocean.Gen might have been warm and taken it off during her walk from town,or maybe didn't have it on to begin with...?

She may have had a short sleeved t-shirt on, too.

All I can say is that it makes sense to me that she would have had her jacket on.

From that weather link above, it was 18 degrees C around 11:00 am. She had her jacket on at approximately 11:41 am, iirc.

I'm thinking that if she had it on when she crossed the bridge, she would have had her purse on the outside of it.

It's hard to say with any certainty, though; I recognize that.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I could not have said what your wrote better - my thoughts to a tee!

Thank you, Mr. Steve.

I think she may have been quite far into the path, too--almost ready to come out on Riverview Dr.

That's the side that seems to have the easiest access for a vehicle, with the path appearing quite wide until the trees.

There may be a section in there that could have allowed him to pull off the path, and wait for her.

I added the red circle about where the treed area seems to stop as someone would have approached the exit at Riverview Dr.

http://goo.gl/maps/qY0KU

 

[Sandpiper]

Thank you, Mr. Steve.

I think she may have been quite far into the path, too--almost ready to come out on Riverview Dr.

That's the side that seems to have the easiest access for a vehicle, with the path appearing quite wide until the trees.

There may be a section in there that could have allowed him to pull off the path, and wait for her.

I added the red circle about where the treed area seems to stop as someone would have approached the exit at Riverview Dr.

http://goo.gl/maps/qY0KU

Truth she could also have been just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Could have been someone on the path doing whatever, someone who was not a very nice person. There are according to people I have talked to, lots of places to kind of pull off, trails and paths galore. Also if Gen did fall into the river it would have had to have been from the dock behind the Boaz or close to the dock. The deck to the dock proper has railing on both sides, the dock is open along the front facing the river. The water would have been cold,cold. However the dock shouldn't have been slippery with such a dry hot day.