Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Cormier, 19, St John, NB, 29 Sept 2013 - #2

[Truth Prevails]

It was reported in MSM that;
Yeonshee was depressed and was on medication for her depression.
Shelby had suffered a miscarraige in August 2012 (a month before she went missing) she was also a past drug user.

With this information in mind, does suicide seem a bit more likely?

This is a difficult topic, and I am trying to mindful and respectful to the beautiful women who are gone, and their families, but I am also trying to "keep it simple" and search out possibilities if there are any, other than suicide.

Or a convenient excuse for law enforcement officials who don't want to cause panic in a relatively small port city.

I thought the first quote below which I came across in an old article on Ms. Choi interesting. Keep in mind that this was about seven months after Ms. Williams' alleged suicide.

I wonder if they would be back to three now that they termed Ms. Choi's death suicide, too? Or maybe Ms. Williams was included in the statistics for the article--so that would leave them with two unsolved female murders dating back 32 years?

There are currently four unsolved missing female cases in the city, dating back 32 years, said Henderson.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...body-pulled-from-saint-john-harbour-1.1380070

I can't find much on suicide statistics, but I came across this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Canada#By_region

And this one. Yep, I guess we can see why statistics may be inaccurate.

Statistics about suicide are difficult to find, and could be inaccurate due to misclassification of suicides (e.g. "accidental firearms discharge") or under-reporting. The sensitivity of suicide, as with other mental health issues, often contributes to under-reporting. Because of the variation in the reporting, different sources could report very different values.
http://www.med.uottawa.ca/sim/data/Suicide_e.htm

 

[Truth Prevails]

if you do some googling of suicides in St. John you will see that Reversing Falls Bridge has been the spot of many, there was a rescue earlier this year of a women trying to jump.

The operative word above is "rescued." Here is a link to that rescue, in case anyone finds it interesting.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...ohn-rescue-dismayed-with-bystanders-1.1384778

I'm respectfully asking if you could link any sources stating that the bridge has been the spot of many suicides. Only if you have them handy--I'm not expecting you to spend valuable time searching for me.

Even a hint as to what words you used in your search would be appreciated.

I lived in the west side of Saint John for eight years. I crossed that bridge at least twice a day.

It is with my experience and personal knowledge of the area--as well as attempting to Google--that I say that suicides are not common at that bridge.

Yes, they happen. It is a high, old bridge with dangerous currents beneath it; but it is well traveled by Saint Johner's and if you want to commit suicide there you have to swiftly put yourself into position, (which is not easy), and jump quicker; because if you don't someone is going to see you and try their very best to save you.

I also just want to mention--with apologies because I can't find the comment right now--that Genn's last know location was passed the bridge. And this location was confirmed by the Saint John police department.

It's unbelievable to think that she turned around and walked back to the bridge on a Sunday afternoon and jumped without anyone seeing her.

Remember, there is also a confirmed sighting of her before she crossed the bridge.

 

[bettiepageturner]

BBM - Thank you so much for doing this map!

I have reduced it to get all six locations to show, and the markers for the final locations of the first two girls are nearly on top of each other; but a picture paints a thousand shocking words.

An interesting thing I noted was that Shelby Dawn Williams was last seen around midnight on Saturday, September 22, 2012; and Yeonhee Choi was last seen on the morning of April 22, 2013.

Genevieve was last seen September 29, 2013.

So, about every six months; with the possible first one occurring nearly a year to the date of Genn's disappearance.

I also noted that Sgt. Jay Henderson has handled all these cases.

It's possible the currents could be responsible, but the point of entry would had to have been close.

The 6 month period is a really interesting observation. It made me curious about offshore workers (Brandon Lavergne, Mickey Shunick's killer, spent weeks/months at a time working offshore). In NB, St. John in particular seems to have a lot of opportunities for workers like that, and operated as a major port and one of the largest shipyard construction sites on earth until recently. Irving/Canaport appears to be the biggest employer (example job) and while I've found many other companies and refineries that operate on a 6 month on/6 month off schedule I haven't been able to find out how typical of a cycle that is in St. John.

Working offshore might also give someone the opportunity to dispose of things in deep, distant water. :twocents:

 

[LoyalSleuth]

The operative word above is "rescued." Here is a link to that rescue, in case anyone finds it interesting.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...ohn-rescue-dismayed-with-bystanders-1.1384778

I'm respectfully asking if you could link any sources stating that the bridge has been the spot of many suicides. Only if you have them handy--I'm not expecting you to spend valuable time searching for me.

Even a hint as to what words you used in your search would be appreciated.

I lived in the west side of Saint John for eight years. I crossed that bridge at least twice a day.

It is with my experience and personal knowledge of the area--as well as attempting to Google--that I say that suicides are not common at that bridge.

Yes, they happen. It is a high, old bridge with dangerous currents beneath it; but it is well traveled by Saint Johner's and if you want to commit suicide there you have to swiftly put yourself into position, (which is not easy), and jump quicker; because if you don't someone is going to see you and try their very best to save you.

I also just want to mention--with apologies because I can't find the comment right now--that Genn's last know location was passed the bridge. And this location was confirmed by the Saint John police department.

It's unbelievable to think that she turned around and walked back to the bridge on a Sunday afternoon and jumped without anyone seeing her.

Remember, there is also a confirmed sighting of her before she crossed the bridge.

I am not at my computer right now, but I will post when I can.
Question, can I post links that are not msm? Say a link from a suicide help forum?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Truth Prevails]

I am not at my computer right now, but I will post when I can.
Question, can I post links that are not msm? Say a link from a suicide help forum?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BBM - Sorry I don't know the answer, either; but I think I came across that also.

If we have been looking at the same one, they begin asking about one suicide in 2010. There is a series of 8 comments confirming that it did happen--it was a male, and he was pulled out by boaters.

Then someone writes that her father fell; jumped; or was pushed over the bridge when she was just a baby, no date or further confirmation is given.

And that's it. One in 2010 which was supposedly unreported by the media and rather suspicious sounding; and one an unknown number of years ago when the person writing the comment was still a baby.

If my Google facts are correct, that bridge was built in 1922, (replacing one built in 1885.)

But my point is that there has been a bridge there for practically centuries, and the suicide rate from people jumping is quite low--all things being considered.

Even though it does happen.

(Googling: Reversing Falls Suicide, should bring you to the link I'm explaining.)

 

[Truth Prevails]

The 6 month period is a really interesting observation. It made me curious about offshore workers (Brandon Lavergne, Mickey Shunick's killer, spent weeks/months at a time working offshore). In NB, St. John in particular seems to have a lot of opportunities for workers like that, and operated as a major port and one of the largest shipyard construction sites on earth until recently. Irving/Canaport appears to be the biggest employer (example job) and while I've found many other companies and refineries that operate on a 6 month on/6 month off schedule I haven't been able to find out how typical of a cycle that is in St. John.

Working offshore might also give someone the opportunity to dispose of things in deep, distant water. :twocents:

Saint John is a very unionized city and they do not easily accept a 6 month on/6 month off schedule, but they might depending on the economy.

Yeah, the timing really gives me the creeps; and I have shared your thought. That opportunity exists.

However, something nags at me saying this could also be someone local. The person, (supposing there is one,) seems to be familiar with the west side, and the old uptown area. He seems to know all the areas to haunt where he might find a female alone.

And depressed females often walk alone and are easy pray--although I believe Genna was the exception to that.

I guess I'm adding my to yours for which I thank you for sharing.

O/T but I followed Mickey Shunick's case, too. So, so sad.

 

[LoyalSleuth]

Yes, I read that thread. As well there was some information about a hospital that was near the bridge and at that time the bridge was used as a suicide location.

There is the other bridge, St. John harbour bridge, is this a tall bridge?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Truth Prevails]

Yes, I read that thread. As well there was some information about a hospital that was near the bridge and at that time the bridge was used as a suicide location.

There is the other bridge, St. John harbour bridge, is this a tall bridge?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, I know what you are talking about regarding a hospital near the bridge.

You are referring to: Centracare (hosptial)

That was not an ordinary hospital to treat suicides, and it's location to the Reversing Falls bridge was not because the citizens of Saint John were ever jumping off the bridge at such an alarming rate that they needed a hospital nearby.

That was a psychiatric hospital that housed the criminally insane, among other serious cases. No one wanted to land there, believe me.

It has been torn down now and that area is the 'park' that Genn was walking nearby.

Yes, the Harbour Bridge was built as a toll bridge to relieve some of the traffic from the Reversing Falls bridge and while it certainly appeared high to drive across in a vehicle it received criticism for being not high enough to allow large ships to pass under and was basically unpopular because of the toll; although I believe the toll has been abolished now.

The Reversing Falls bridge always held it's own when it came to traffic, and that alone makes it a poor candidate if you are looking for a place to commit suicide.

 

[swedie]

Great sleuthing folks. Is anyone capable of getting autopsy results on any of these women? The whole suicide thing is IMHO odd. Personally I have never considered suicide, but jumping from a bridge would be my last choice kwim. Would death be a definite end result by jumping off this bridge or could someone survive a fall or jump? And as someone posted above, Gen was seen on the other side of the bridge, so why the backtracking/afterthought? Does anyone know if her cell phone was found? If so, I wonder what her last messages were, her frame of mind. I don't believe she committed suicide and those last messages my be helpful. All MOO.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Great sleuthing folks. Is anyone capable of getting autopsy results on any of these women? The whole suicide thing is IMHO odd. Personally I have never considered suicide, but jumping from a bridge would be my last choice kwim. Would death be a definite end result by jumping off this bridge or could someone survive a fall or jump? And as someone posted above, Gen was seen on the other side of the bridge, so why the backtracking/afterthought? Does anyone know if her cell phone was found? If so, I wonder what her last messages were, her frame of mind. I don't believe she committed suicide and those last messages my be helpful. All MOO.

Nope, we have no sunshine up this way.

An immediate family member can possibly obtain the report after a length of time; however--even if we could, I expect all we would find is suicide as the cause of death.

Do they carefully examine the throat area for signs of strangulation? Do they bother much at all? We will never know.

Anything is possible, so I wouldn't want to say that you could not survive a fall from the Reversing Falls bridge, but it would be highly unlikely. There are big rocks with a very fast current under that bridge. You might be able to survive for a few hours--with many broken bones and in great pain; but in the end the current is going to sweep you away. Plus in most seasons the water is cold enough to plunge a person into shock almost immediately.

It's very, very doubtful that anyone would survive that jump--it would require an intervention by God, himself, imo.

In Genevieve's case, I don't think they will try to sell us on the story that she jumped off the bridge--because clearly that is ridiculous--but they may try to sell that she somehow just walked herself into the river and kept on walking, I guess.

To me, that is equally ridiculous.

Genna's cell phone was never found, unless it arrived on the beach with her and that information has not been released--and will most likely never be.

We know that Genn talked to her father on Saturday afternoon and he said she was in a good frame of mind--excitedly telling him about a job interview she had on Monday morning.

We know her mother said she was in a good mood early Saturday evening--she had cooked the evening meal for the family; cleaned up; kissed her mom good-bye and left with bus fare to the uptown area.

Genn contacted her mother later to say that she was staying uptown for the night with her friends--this was not unusual in any way.

In this interview, Genn's father said that Genn contacted a friend she had arranged to meet that afternoon to say that she was heading home. She said that she had some laundry to do and that she wanted to get some rest and maybe they could meet later. This exchange was supposedly one of her last known text messages.

Her mother expected her home around 6:00 pm--and Genn was clearly heading home and her arrival time would probably have been around 5:15 pm to 5:30 pm.

This indicates to me, a prompt, courteous child who had every intention of showing up on time and meeting her obligations.

I will never believe there was a single thought of suicide in Genevieve's mind.

Justice for Genevieve. Someone murdered this child.

----

The reason I linked that interview is because I believe it to be the one where Genn's father talks about the text message. I have never heard it because my computer won't let it play, but someone commented that he spoke about the text message and I wrote it down. (I believe it was Mrs. Holmes--thank you, Mrs. Holmes.)

If you watch the video, I was wondering if you could jot down the time and date he gives for that text message--if he gives one? From what I've heard it is her last known message but I would so like to have that confirmed.

Blessings if you do!

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Nope, we have no sunshine up this way.

An immediate family member can possibly obtain the report after a length of time; however--even if we could, I expect all we would find is suicide as the cause of death.

Do they carefully examine the throat area for signs of strangulation? Do they bother much at all? We will never know.

Anything is possible, so I wouldn't want to say that you could not survive a fall from the Reversing Falls bridge, but it would be highly unlikely. There are big rocks with a very fast current under that bridge. You might be able to survive for a few hours--with many broken bones and in great pain; but in the end the current is going to sweep you away. Plus in most seasons the water is cold enough to plunge a person into shock almost immediately.

It's very, very doubtful that anyone would survive that jump--it would require an intervention by God, himself, imo.

In Genevieve's case, I don't think they will try to sell us on the story that she jumped off the bridge--because clearly that is ridiculous--but they may try to sell that she somehow just walked herself into the river and kept on walking, I guess.

To me, that is equally ridiculous.

Genna's cell phone was never found, unless it arrived on the beach with her and that information has not been released--and will most likely never be.

We know that Genn talked to her father on Saturday afternoon and he said she was in a good frame of mind--excitedly telling him about a job interview she had on Monday morning.

We know her mother said she was in a good mood early Saturday evening--she had cooked the evening meal for the family; cleaned up; kissed her mom good-bye and left with bus fare to the uptown area.

Genn contacted her mother later to say that she was staying uptown for the night with her friends--this was not unusual in any way.

In this interview, Genn's father said that Genn contacted a friend she had arranged to meet that afternoon to say that she was heading home. She said that she had some laundry to do and that she wanted to get some rest and maybe they could meet later. This exchange was supposedly one of her last known text messages.

Her mother expected her home around 6:00 pm--and Genn was clearly heading home and her arrival time would probably have been around 5:15 pm to 5:30 pm.

This indicates to me, a prompt, courteous child who had every intention of showing up on time and meeting her obligations.

I will never believe there was a single thought of suicide in Genevieve's mind.

Justice for Genevieve. Someone murdered this child.

----

The reason I linked that interview is because I believe it to be the one where Genn's father talks about the text message. I have never heard it because my computer won't let it play, but someone commented that he spoke about the text message and I wrote it down. (I believe it was Mrs. Holmes--thank you, Mrs. Holmes.)

If you watch the video, I was wondering if you could jot down the time and date he gives for that text message--if he gives one? From what I've heard it is her last known message but I would so like to have that confirmed.

Blessings if you do!

I just listened again....Yes, that is correct her father says her last text message was to her friend "Robin" saying she was going home, to do laundry and rest up.... and maybe they would meat up later....

There is hope the RCMP will still be considering this case as not closed.... the officer I spoke to was very sharp and had already contacted the FBI with regards to the missing girls in New England.... and you add to that these ones in St. John..... I feel sure if they have a lead to follow they will go down those roads... foul play was on the list.... whether they have anything else to go on is unknown to us..

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

:thumb:

Great sleuthing, you all!

:websleuther:

 

[Truth Prevails]

I just listened again....Yes, that is correct her father says her last text message was to her friend "Robin" saying she was going home, to do laundry and rest up.... and maybe they would meat up later....

There is hope the RCMP will still be considering this case as not closed.... the officer I spoke to was very sharp and had already contacted the FBI with regards to the missing girls in New England.... and you add to that these ones in St. John..... I feel sure if they have a lead to follow they will go down those roads... foul play was on the list.... whether they have anything else to go on is unknown to us..

Thank you, Mrs. Holmes! Do you know if he confirms that text message was sent on Sunday, and does he give a time, even an approximate time? If he does we can add that to the time line.

I do strongly suspect that they are 'on' this, at least behind the scenes; but that worries me. Sure, they wouldn't want to cause mass panic in the city and elsewhere in the province; but shouldn't a press conference letting women know that they need to take extra precautions concerning their safety be in order.

Wouldn't now be a good time to advise women that they need to refresh their habit to never walk alone--ever, at any time of day.

One of these women went missing around midnight; one went missing in the early morning; and Genn went missing in the late afternoon.

I think it should be reinforced that any time of day could be a danger.

This kind of proactive warning could save lives.

Who's child is going to be next--don't they deserve to at least be warned? Who's mother, who's sister; who's aunt; who's cousin; who's self? How many more?

I've been listening to the scanner every now and then, and I'm getting the impression that there is a fear in the city. I think all daughters of police officers will not be walking alone.

Don't we all deserve to be warned?

Knowing our police department is working a crime; knowing they care enough about our safety to advise us to take precautions, would make me feel more protected than thinking they may be just closing all these cases as suicides.

And suicides are not romanticized in this area. We are still taught that suicide is a sin. I would not want that public stain on my daughter's soul or on my own. To imply that towards a child that was most likely murdered is a separate kind of sin, all on its own.

This post is strictly my opinion only.

 

[jillybean51]

'Motorcycle Rapist' dies in custody - New Brunswick - CBC News
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/.../motorcycle-rapist-dies-in-custody-1.2355575
Nov 4, 2013 - A violent sex offender known as the Motorcycle Rapist, who was released to a halfway house in Saint John last spring, died in custody on ...
I would like to know why his parole was revoked......he committed suicide the day after Genna was found and living in Saint John at the time Genna went missing .He was aslso known to hang around Tim Hortons on King St....the same one Genna was at on her last day seen.......if there was a connection would we ever know?

 

[Truth Prevails]

'Motorcycle Rapist' dies in custody - New Brunswick - CBC News
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/.../motorcycle-rapist-dies-in-custody-1.2355575
Nov 4, 2013 - A violent sex offender known as the Motorcycle Rapist, who was released to a halfway house in Saint John last spring, died in custody on ...
I would like to know why his parole was revoked......he committed suicide the day after Genna was found and living in Saint John at the time Genna went missing .He was aslso known to hang around Tim Hortons on King St....the same one Genna was at on her last day seen.......if there was a connection would we ever know?

Thanks for pointing this out!

I note that Shelby Dawn Williams went missing around midnight on September 22, 2012; and it looks like this guy may have still been in custody at that time.

I hope I am wrong, and it would sure be nice to have some official confirmation, wouldn't it?

Revoke parole of 'motorcycle rapist': petition
John Arthur O'Brien convicted in 1989 for violent sexual assaults on 8 women
CBC NewsPosted: Apr 06, 2013 6:52 PM AT|Last Updated: Apr 06, 2013 7:13 PM AT

He was released into a Saint John halfway house this week after serving two-thirds of his 37-year sentence.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/revoke-parole-of-motorcycle-rapist-petition-1.1365494

 

[jillybean51]

It would be interesting to see the video from Tim's on King street around the time Genna was there to see if this guy could be spotted....could he have followed her on her way home......was his parole revoked for not being back in time to his half way house.Just thought Genna's case could be an isolated event where this guy was concerned.I really do not believe the suicide explanation!To not leave a note or text IMO,seems highly unlikely,as well.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

'Motorcycle Rapist' dies in custody - New Brunswick - CBC News
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/.../motorcycle-rapist-dies-in-custody-1.2355575
Nov 4, 2013 - A violent sex offender known as the Motorcycle Rapist, who was released to a halfway house in Saint John last spring, died in custody on ...
I would like to know why his parole was revoked......he committed suicide the day after Genna was found and living in Saint John at the time Genna went missing .He was aslso known to hang around Tim Hortons on King St....the same one Genna was at on her last day seen.......if there was a connection would we ever know?

Interesting "coincidences"!

Or... Are they?....:waitasec:

 

[Truth Prevails]

The picture on the left is the suspect wanted in connection with the attempted abduction of the girl in Moncton; the picture on the left is the file picture given of the motorcycle rapist.

I find it interesting that he was pronounced dead in Moncton.

O'Brien died at a Moncton hospital from unspecified injuries, Boucher said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/motorcycle-rapist-dies-in-custody-1.2355575

 

[Truth Prevails]

It would be interesting to see the video from Tim's on King street around the time Genna was there to see if this guy could be spotted....could he have followed her on her way home......was his parole revoked for not being back in time to his half way house.Just thought Genna's case could be an isolated event where this guy was concerned.I really do not believe the suicide explanation!To not leave a note or text IMO,seems highly unlikely,as well.

BBM, excellent point.

I'm going out on a limb here because we don't know anything about what Genn did later Saturday night, but it would also be interesting to check any surveillance videos which may exist from the night clubs to see if he may have been hanging around.

I certainly share your opinion of not believing the suicide explanation.

 

[jillybean51]

John Arthur O'Brien parole documents : Free Download & Streaming ...
archive.org › eBook and Texts › Community Texts
Apr 3, 2013 - Related_article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/04/03/ns- motorcycle-rapist-release-obrien.html. Identifier-access ...
I found these documents but haven't read them yet.....I wonder if the reason his parole was revoked will be entered into archives ,now that he is deceased.