Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[FactFinder3000]

Isn't there a thing in Canada to do a fifth year of high school as sort of a breather before adulthood or to figure out what to do after high school? I know there was a Canadian fashion blogger I followed back in the day and she talked about taking a fifth year of high school and how it was common to do it in Canada...I think she called it a "victory lap." But she lived in Ontario so I don't know if that's a British Columbia thing too. But anyway could that explain the discrepancy if he took a fifth year?

Education in Canada falls under provincial jurisdiction, so what they're doing in Ontario doesn't necessarily apply to BC.

However, a student could potentially do grade 13 in BC, and students who are deemed to need an additional year to acquire extra life skills are a prime candidate. Also, if a student were held back a year or more that would mean completing additional years before they graduate.

 

[Zella]

"McLeod was pictured in a graduation supplement published in the July 4, 2018, edition of the Alberni Valley News. It listed him as having graduated from the Eighth Avenue Learning Centre, which provides an alternative and more individualized learning model."

If you ‘inadvertently’ helped two suspected killers escape, please come forward, RCMP urge

Good sleuthing! I hadn't seen that. This makes me wonder about the age gap between them even more. I had assumed they were both born in 2000 and were just a few months apart in age, with KM earlier in the year, which is why he was 19 and BS was 18. Now, I am wondering if KM was a full year ahead of him in school and is closer to 20 than 19.

It also makes the post-graduation job seem even weirder for them to start at the same time. BS starting work this summer after he finished school, regardless of whether he graduated, makes sense. What was KM up to for a year while he waited for his compadre to finish school? Apparently not work. Or maybe he did have a job before Wal-Mart and it hasn't been reported yet then he quit to join BS at Wal-Mart? Nothing with these two ever quite makes sense. . . .

All MOO

Edited to add: I wonder if AS was mistaken in believing they both graduated at the same time since they were so close? I don't know why KM would graduate the year before and still continue with his education in high school, but maybe he was allowed to walk in the ceremony but still had requirements he had to finish? I don't know.

 

[copkid]

I am just wondering if the reasons they stopped mentioning this person were ever publicly disclosed. If that person was not KM, then I would think that he would still be relevant and if he has been found, if any information he provided was of any value to LE.

They completly quit mentioning him once KM & BS were charged with the LD murder and named as suspects in Lucas & Chynna's murder.

It is possible he did come forward and police obtained valuable information from him? Another thing we just don't know for sure.

 

[Sparrow2]

...thus the constant hinting by RCMP that someone might have inadvertantly helped them. Crickets on that front.

This gets me, too. It makes me think the RCMP have some reason to suspect this is the case, but just can't corroborate it or nail down the who and when until the "who" steps forward. Someone told them something to make them take the step of speaking out publicly in the manner they did. They didn't say "it's possible they left the town somehow". Rather, they were attempting to appeal to someone specific with that request, it would seem.

EDIT: corrected spelling

 

[Zella]

Random theory, pure speculation and JMO

KM & BS pick up a random hitch hiker, possibly someone around their age) not far


They completly quit mentioning him once KM & BS were charged with the LD murder and named as suspects in Lucas & Chynna's murder.

It is possible he did come forward and police obtained valuable information from him? Another thing we just don't know for sure.

Just MOO, but I don't see them picking up a hitchhiker. If they did, I think whoever it was would be a dead hitchhiker, especially if he was present for whatever went down with LF and CD.

 

[acutename]

Manitoba RCMP have concluded dive operations on the Nelson River. A kind Gillam resident is helping us get gas. (We were nearly out.) We'll be headed to the search area shortly and update you on what @meltait and I are seeing on the ground

Renata D'Aliesio (@RenataDAliesio) | Twitter

what this says to me is that professionals with resources need a lot of local cooperation to get needed items (food, gas), so how could BS and KM function in this environment without a lot of help?

 

[1987]

For me one of the most poignant moments has been the interview on camera with the man who found the Rav4. He & his wife rushed to the fire thinking there had been an accident. His voice caught when he said, “We would have helped them.” Other people across the whole country said the same thing — and many did help them. It’s such a tragedy that apparently they couldn’t find the help they needed at home.

maybe they didn't want help at home. some kids despite efforts to point them in the better direction fight that better direction.

 

[Arizona 123]

Are you sure that the rail line is only a few hundred metres from the RAV4 burn site?

I was mistaken. I'm not sure of that. It depends where the RAV was found. I should also have considered viable route rather than straight line distance.


But how far are the rails from the RAV4? If the Rav4 was at the intersection now being pointed at (between the river road and an access track heading north), which seems to be the eastermost point we think it was at, going up the track for about a mile is a viable route to the rails. That track comes within 56 yards of the rail lines.

The speed of the train is another factor. That line has freight as well as passenger rail, and one passenger train went through southbound at 4:am Wednesday Morning. The trains would be quite slow there, due to upcoming curves, bridges, and wyes (track splits) within about a mile.

But, regardless of where the RAV actually was, they had pretty easy access to that rail line, which carries both fright and passenger rail, both of which would be pretty slow in that area, and freight trains are much easier to jump.

I'm not saying they did do that, only that escape by rail is my best guess at the moment. That area is the only place since Thompson that those roads cross a rail line.

My reasoning is that he RAV was burned before they were announced as suspects, so IMHO it's unlikely they were in panic mode enough to just head out into the wilds on foot, unprepared and ill equipped, with no chance of making it to anywhere. So, my guess is they didn't do that, they looked for some other way to leave the region, and there was the train line. But it's only a guess.

 

[Seattle1]

I am just wondering if the reasons they stopped mentioning this person were ever publicly disclosed. If that person was not KM, then I would think that he would still be relevant and if he has been found, if any information he provided was of any value to LE.

I’ve wondered if the road supervisor made a mistake and recanted her observation. I make this statement because I always thought the sketch very much resembled the wanted Texan believed to have entered Canada just before the couple murdered. I believe he was also allegedly driving a jeep.

Moo

 

[MistyWaters]

We factually do not know for certain if they had a gun. There are MSM links in this thread stating the Saskatchewan RCMP labled them as "armed and dangerous", but so far as I can find, and I have searched, the Saskatchewan RCMP are the only LE that have mentioned "armed" FWIW.

“Armed and dangerous” - plus the word “armed” refers to a weapon, but not necessarily a gun.

armed and dangerous
idiom
Definition of armed and dangerous
: carrying a weapon and likely to try to kill someone....
Definition of ARMED AND DANGEROUS

weapon
noun
weap·on | \ ˈwe-pən \
Definition of weapon
(Entry 1 of 2)

1: something (such as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy
Definition of WEAPON

 

[acutename]

Omg talk about Traumatizing!

didn't some one say previously that it would not be fun to be a 6' 4" male driving around Canada right now? I think we also have to consider that one or both suspects could be in a car threatening the driver or a passenger and that could compel some one to drive them some place- if the suspect(s) are not dead, that is.

 

[copkid]

Interesting tidbit:

Family members of mine have been traveling across several Canadian provinces via the Trans Canada Highway, this past weekend.

They left Elk Lake, Ontario on Aug 3rd at 3:30pm, they drove to Kapuskasing and spent the night. Next morning Aug 4th, they drove as far as Brandon, Manitoba and stopped for the night. Today was Brandon to Calgary. They and I were shocked and surprised by the fact that during this whole trip they did not pass even one police car.

We had talked before their journey about this case and about being cautious, we talked about the news reports suggesting a possible heavier police presence yet almost 3000km and they never saw ONE police car.

I am not saying this to fault the police in any way, Northern Ontario is vast and they simply cannot be everywhere, this is to draw attention to the often misleading information that appears in the media.

 

[NJSleuth91]

"Grade 13" was an Ontario thing and was phased out around 2002/3 or thereabouts.

EDIT: Apparently, some kids still decide to return to high school for an extra year in Ontario despite this...

Yes it's still an unofficial thing...the blogger I was talking about graduated in 2008. Anyway it's not relevant to Kam's background so never mind.

I thought it was unusual that film footage of BS and KM never showed them buying anything to eat. the CBC reporter Renata, however, said that there was only one grocery in Gillam which she did not get into during open hours and she showed, on Twitter, some fruit given to her by the RMPC. Maybe the rural routes chosen by BS and KM really did not have any or many food options. Also not sure if LE has footage never released. And also not sure if anything in the RAV was purchased by BS and KM, or if it was in there from LD's provisions.

They could have gone to stores that clear their tapes at intervals or just didn't happen to review them and find footage of the two. They could have had enough supplies on hand for three days perhaps including Professor Dyck's supplies, etc. especially if this was planned. Maybe they could have even used drive-throughs if there were any on their route...anyone know? I bet more people saw them but forgot about it because why would you remember two random guys unless there was a reason to remember them.

For me one of the most poignant moments has been the interview on camera with the man who found the Rav4. He & his wife rushed to the fire thinking there had been an accident. His voice caught when he said, “We would have helped them.” Other people across the whole country said the same thing — and many did help them. It’s such a tragedy that apparently they couldn’t find the help they needed at home.

Honestly everything about this case is depressing af. What a pointless waste of five peoples' lives. Plus all the loved ones who will be devastated forever. None of this had to happen.

Like, ok, some people are dealt a crappier hand in life than others in terms of dysfunctional family, mental issues, social deficits, etc. And I know that stuff because I've lived it. But we all have the choice to do good or evil with the hand we're dealt. And for some reason, they chose evil and, at an age where they were basically still kids, they chose to throw away not only their own lives, but innocent peoples'. That is just inexplicably sad all around.

On a less depressing note, I have a bit of a soft spot for the people in these remote Canadian communities now. That was not a region of the world I ever really thought about before but I think I've learned more about Canada in the past two weeks than the entire rest of my life. I kind of want to go on a Canadian road trip. Preferably after this case is resolved of course.

 

[scrappinkat]

RCMP investigating attempted abduction of construction flagger - Energeticcity.ca

A blue van, near Fort St John.

 

[SteveP]

I have a question about the alternative school that some think BS went to, and that KM apparently graduated from. In my area 'alternative schools' are not necessarily for special needs students, in the sense of slow learners, but are generally for juvenile delinquent, troubled students that were expelled from regular schools because they were disruptive, or otherwise just did not fit in.. I have read, or at least skimmed over most every post of this case, but do not recall ever hearing that BS was special needs, as in mentally deficient. Perhaps I just missed that. If alternative schools are for troubled kids, that may give us more of an idea of whether they may have had run-ins with the law before now. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[scrappinkat]

I’ve wondered if the road supervisor made a mistake and recanted her observation. I make this statement because I always thought the sketch very much resembled the wanted Texan believed to have entered Canada just before the couple murdered. I believe he was also allegedly driving a jeep.

Moo

He left his Jeep in the states and walked across the Canadian/USA border. From there (it’s believed) he hitched a ride to Winnipeg.

 

[acutename]

I tried making the images a little bigger, which was probably a moot point. But here they are again as files rather than as thumbnails. Sorry for my incompetence with the pictures!

Image source:

unless it is his footwear (?) or the angle, it looks as if BS's head just makes it under the door frame. is there a standard height door frame for those stores in Canada?

 

[scrappinkat]

I have a question about the alternative school that some think BS went to, and that KM apparently graduated from. In my area 'alternative schools' are not necessarily for special needs students, but are generally for juvenile delinquent, troubled students that were expelled from regular schools because they were disruptive. I have read, or at least skimmed over most every post of this case, but do not recall ever hearing that BS was special needs, as in mentally deficient. Perhaps I just missed that. If alternative schools are for troubled kids, that may give us more of an idea of whether they may have had run-ins with the law before now. Can someone enlighten me?

In my experience 90% of the kids in alternative school are there because they don’t fit in with the crowd well, miss a lot of school due to being bullied and being depressed. Smoking pot and low grades in another biggie. One in ten is attending alternative school due to issues with the law or crime.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Education in Canada falls under provincial jurisdiction, so what they're doing in Ontario doesn't necessarily apply to BC.

However, a student could potentially do grade 13 in BC, and students who are deemed to need an additional year to acquire extra life skills are a prime candidate. Also, if a student were held back a year or more that would mean completing additional years before they graduate.

Ok, so they do have grade 13 in BC and Kam could have potentially done that. Or maybe he was held back a year, who knows. The reason why I'm discussing this is, I'm wondering if he took an extra year so that he and Bryer could graduate together, if they actually were several months apart in age and one grade apart in school. It seems like they did almost everything else together so it's possible. If so it would indicate the strength of their bond. This is all speculative though and I guess it's not really super relevant except as more insight into their history.

 

[Thinkzerz]

didn't some one say previously that it would not be fun to be a 6' 4" male driving around Canada right now? I think we also have to consider that one or both suspects could be in a car threatening the driver or a passenger and that could compel some one to drive them some place- if the suspect(s) are not dead, that is.

I was referring to the children as even after they were known it was the children and not the suspects and closed the door on a child who was scared crying for the mom.