Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[otto]

JMO
The really strange thing to me about the couple in the Van is the report from a witness that they were seen speaking to or having some sort of heated discussion with another person.

That other person was either the killer(s) or someone trying to help them and not being able to convince them to leave the van there and come with them to safety or something like that.

Since they ended up murdered I would have to put the odds more on the side that the witness saw the murderer and if there were two of them then one may have been hiding or out of the persons view.

Not much to make me lean that way other than the witness seemed to think it was more than a friendly discussion.
I have to wonder if Lucas was the one outside speaking with the person and as things got heated maybe Chynna was inside with a weapon and maybe was told to use it if she needed to by Lucas. She may have seen things get physical and maybe she fired a shot out the window to try to scare off the person(s).

Or maybe she saw/heard the witness car passing, knew the person on the outside was trouble, and tried to fire that shot out the window to flag down the witness who kept driving by.

The shot through the window is a little strange because if it came from the inside then it means at least one of them had to still be inside the van.

Its all so strange and I dont like coincidences in most cases like this which I think is also why I am leaning that the witness may have seen the murderer(s).

The road worked witness saw one man talking to both Chynna and Lucas. Something about the body language caused her concern, so she did not stop.

I would be very susprised to learn that Lucas and Chynna were travelling with an illegal gun. It's one thing to take a van on a 3 week road trip with questionable vehicle registration, but an illegal gun is a whole different problem.

I'm inclined to think that after the altercation with the bearded Caucasian man, who was close to the same height as 6'3" Lucas, the second suspect emerged. All we really know about the suspects is that if they want something, they will kill to get it. They didn't want another old vehicle. They probably wanted money. Early police reports were about a possible robbery, and all ID (except Chynna's hidden passport) was missing.

The shot through the back window doesn't tell us much. We heard that there was glass on the ground outside the van door, but if the door was open when it was shot, it could have come from any direction.

 

[otto]

What I find frustrating about this case, as no doubt the RCMP does as well, is that we just don't have anything to point in any direction. Why did they travel to such a remote location? Was it so they could disappear into the woods? Or was is to make it appear that way? We just don't know.


Thanks! I didn't realize they had that service. I was trying to find it via google.

So that's pretty clear. 72 grads of the Eighth Avenue Learning Center last year, and he was one of them. I'm amazed there are so many attending this 'alternative' school for such a smallish school district.

It is distance self-paced education, so it probably addresses the needs of a more remote population.

 

[Gina20]

I should point out that Highway 29 between Hudson's Hope and Highway 97 (Alaska Highway) is under construction as part of a realignment due to the Site C dam construction. Highway 29 will allow better flow of traffic between the WAC Bennett dam near Hudson's Hope and the Site C dam near Fort St. John. This will facilitate increased traffic from workers travelling between the two dams. The current road is a narrow, winding one that leaves much to be desired, MOO.

Work to begin on Highway 29 realignment at Halfway River

 

[Hatfield]

The road worked witness saw one man talking to both Chynna and Lucas. Something about the body language caused her concern, so she did not stop.

I would be very susprised to learn that Lucas and Chynna were travelling with an illegal gun. It's one thing to take a van on a 3 week road trip with questionable vehicle registration, but an illegal gun is a whole different problem.

I'm inclined to think that after the altercation with the bearded Caucasian man, who was close to the same height as 6'3" Lucas, the second suspect emerged. All we really know about the suspects is that if they want something, they will kill to get it. They didn't want another old vehicle. They probably wanted money. Early police reports were about a possible robbery, and all ID (except Chynna's hidden passport) was missing.

The shot through the back window doesn't tell us much. We heard that there was glass on the ground outside the van door, but if the door was open when it was shot, it could have come from any direction.

Good point about the Van door may have been wide open when that shot broke the window. I had not even thought of that and you are right that the shot could have come from outside or inside if that door was open.

 

[otto]

JMO
I agree with most but maybe I missed something along the way.

How do we know the murders of Lucas and Chynna are connected to the murder of Dyck?

The odds of two different killers killing the Van couple and someone else killing Dyck is unlikely but there are a couple possibilities unless I missed something that definitely tied the 2 events together.

"Kam McLeod, 19, and Bryer Schmegelsky, 18, are suspects in the deaths of American Chynna Deese, her boyfriend, Lucas Fowler, and a third man identified by police Wednesday as Leonard Dyck, a lecturer in botany at the University of British Columbia."​

Canadian manhunt: Everything we know about the teens suspected of a killing spree

"On Tuesday, July 23, RCMP announced that the two were suspects in the deaths of Fowler and Deese, as well as in the suspicious death of the unidentified man found at Dease Lake."​

What we know and don’t know as manhunt for suspected killers continues | The Star

 

[sandbar]

My interest now is in the one hand under each...thinking about DNA possibly under their fingernails. The last time I checked, the part of the interview about one hand under each had been clipped.

I remember what he said, so that can't be edited out. I know he said it. Thinking that first-time killers might not think about fingernails holding DNA.

One hand under body is mentioned in this youtube clip...

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
Just an observation about the hands or arms of the deceased Van couple being underneath them.

That actually would make sense if the killer(s) dragged the couple off the side of the road by their feet while they were face up. Its been shown in other murder cases how a killer sometimes doesnt want to look at the face of the person they just killed so if they rolled their bodies over to be face down as the last thing they did then they would roll over onto their own arm or arms.

So it would not surprise me to have both bodies with an arm or two underneath them if the killers rolled them face down as the last thing they did once they got them off the road.

 

[Moriarty]

A quick question, and my apologies if I'm going over re-hashed and possibly irrelevant ground, but I've been searching everywhere and can no longer find any references beyond our own timeline on page 1 of this thread:

Am I mistaken, or was it not initially reported that the bodies of Fowler and Deese had been discovered by someone before the road worker/medic guy, possibly a trucker, who left the road worker there and drove away?

Has that person every been identified or interviewed or even mentioned again? I'm just wondering if there is another person's account of the crime scene out there, someone who may have picked up on different details or noticed something before the road worker got there.

 

[FactFinder3000]

My interest now is in the one hand under each...thinking about DNA possibly under their fingernails. The last time I checked, the part of the interview about one hand under each had been clipped.

I remember what he said, so that can't be edited out. I know he said it. Thinking that first-time killers might not think about fingernails holding DNA.

When I first read this I thought you were saying their hands had been clipped. After picking my jaw up off the floor I realized you were saying it was part of the interview that had been clipped.

English can be so fun sometimes.

 

[Kubirai]

That doesn't tell us which route they took when they left Hudson's Hope, unfortunately. Fort Nelson is further north than Charlie Lake.

I recall one article where Pink Mountain was mentioned. They may have been seen there by a witness.

 

[Kubirai]

Am I mistaken, or was it not initially reported that the bodies of Fowler and Deese had been discovered by someone before the road worker/medic guy, possibly a trucker, who left the road worker there and drove away?

That driver probably called police, prompting the arrival of Mr. Pierre to secure the crime scene.

He may also have taken the original photo of van and victims. I am certain he has been thoroughly interviewed by RCMP, being the earliest known witness.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Sorry, why is trying to figure whether they graduating or didn't and alternative/mainstream school is relevant to them being suspects? Or is it just interesting to people?

It's just nailing down the facts. There have been conflicting reports and it's all very confusing.

And it goes toward the suit. A merchant was quoted saying he saw Bryer wearing it on graduation day. Yet he didn't seem to graduate. It's puzzling.

 

[sandbar]

One hand under body is mentioned in this youtube clip...

dbm

 

[NJSleuth91]

Whatever avenue the RCMP are pursuing, I hope it yields results. I think there must be something or they wouldn’t still be present, the roadblock set up again today.

I'm not even religious and I'm praying they find something soon.

In a strange coincidence, one of the suspects in that double murder lived for three years in...you guessed it...little Sundance, MB where RCMP are now searching again.

Does anyone else feel like their head is exploding the more they read about this case?

Sorry, why is trying to figure whether they graduating or didn't and alternative/mainstream school is relevant to them being suspects? Or is it just interesting to people?

I think people wanted to know if they went to alternative school because that could potentially indicate a history of disciplinary problems in school. It's basically just trying to get a sense of their history and who they were as people leading up to this.

The person who found LF and CD dead took photos and those photos found their way onto the internet. I have not viewed them, but it could have been apparent that the two were shot, leading the press to ask RCMP if that were true/draw their own conclusions. Anyway I think those photos were the basis of the "gun violence" information coming forward. It was not so much investigative journalism as a violation of privacy by the person that found the pair.

WTF? What kind of person comes across two brutally murdered people and their first reaction is to take photos and post them to the internet?

 

[sprucetip]

Yes, I also suggested they were hiding near Watson Lake after the July 15 murders.

I sent a few emails to police about Watson Lake just before and soon after the murders. There were several reasons, but I will share one.

On YouTube, you will find the town's 2002 promotional video, which shows a man nailing a "Vestal, NY" sign in their Signpost Forest.

Tallahassee Yoga studio killer Scott Bierle was from Vestal, NY, and could have been that guy.

Not sure what you're saying, that they're following in the (possible) footsteps of that guy? I've never heard of him.

 

[Kubirai]

Thinking back to the unsolved murders of two German tourists in Chetwynd in 1983, it is possible that the person(s) responsible is/are still alive. If an 80s vintage van can still be on the road, a killer in his 20s in 1983 could still be alive.

Double murder of Andrea Scherpf and Bernd Göricke - Wikipedia

Thinking also of one version of Trevor Pierre's TV interview in which he said LF and CD both had one hand tucked under their bodies.

Andrea Scherpf had DNA under her fingernails.

This reported abduction attempt is quite serious. Other potential killers maybe considering this remote area for easy victims. Precautions must be taken by workers and tourists, and regular patrol by RCMP.

 

[Gina20]

I understand. You are looking for alternate suspects in the murders.

We know that the murders of Lucas and Chynna are connected to the murder of Dyck. That means that if an alternate suspect murdered Lucas and Chynna, the alternate suspect also murdered Dyck. We know that charges have been laid in the murder of Dyck and that they are pending in the murders of Lucas and Chynna.

We know that an arrest warrant has been issued and that additional arrest warrants will not change anything. Additionally, more charges will very likely be laid after an arrest for, for example, vehicle theft.

What I'm saying is that the absence of additional arrest warrants does not change anything.

Well, partly but not exactly. I think we could learn something if KM and BS followed LF and CD for quite some time, or if they headed down Highway 29 for some reason, maybe for some sightseeing at the dam? I don't think we will know the connection between the murder of LD and the Liard Hot Springs murders, if there is one, until there is a warrant naming KM and BS.

All we know is that predators tried to abduct a flagger on the same stretch of road that Chynna and Lucas could have taken. Lucas lived in the area. It's even possible that these perps knew who he was.

I do want to know which route they took, if anyone saw them and if someone followed them.

 

[ktm44]

Sorry for the loss of your family member. That is awful. So really, we may never know what happened to these fellows or how Mr. Dyck died.

As long as there is an ongoing investigation, they share very little because they won't risk compromising an investigation. In

Did anyone see a grappling hook on the boat that took the RCMP out on the Nelson River?

The river is swift and there would have been few areas safe enough to send divers into the water. Much of their river search may have been dragging the river for bodies, which is not something the public needs to see.

 

[Moriarty]

Does anyone else feel like their head is exploding the more they read about this case?

I know!

And how weird is that: two foreign tourists killed in northern BC and RCMP arrest a suspect at the end of the highway in remote, northern Manitoba, and flash forward 36 years and two foreign tourists are killed in northern BC and RCMP are searching for suspects in that same remote northern Manitoba area.

As an added OT comment, how creepy must that Sundance place be, abandoned in 1992 but once home to workers, families, a school, a few stores...

 

[Gina20]

A quick question, and my apologies if I'm going over re-hashed and possibly irrelevant ground, but I've been searching everywhere and can no longer find any references beyond our own timeline on page 1 of this thread:

Am I mistaken, or was it not initially reported that the bodies of Fowler and Deese had been discovered by someone before the road worker/medic guy, possibly a trucker, who left the road worker there and drove away?

Has that person every been identified or interviewed or even mentioned again? I'm just wondering if there is another person's account of the crime scene out there, someone who may have picked up on different details or noticed something before the road worker got there.

Yes, a trucker found them. He has not spoken publicly.