Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[10ofRods]

You are quite right in that post-secondary institutions have put a big spotlight on mental health. Students feel overwhelmed with the work load and high performance expectations. They are also expected to be good citizens and work part-time. Many people between the ages of 18 - 22 are overwhelmed with the demands and have thoughts of suicide. This trend follows closely on previously observed changes in post-secondary students: the "entitled" generation that expects a top grade for attending class and completing assignments. The redefining of "identity" has probably inspired a lot of young adults to question whether they are what they want to be, or whether they would rather be medically altered to be someone completely different - that alone has to be confusing.

I had a conversation with a 17 year old not long ago who learned at public high school that if nothing changes with population growth and global warming, the planet will be uninhabitable in 35 years. If we have a generation who sees a future of doom and gloom, they will approach life very differently than previous generations and centuries of civilization.

Well, the first time I heard about climate issues leading to exactly where we are today was in 1971, from Paul Ehrlich. Had a profound impact on me and my student cohort, and that explains why a lot of us have worked hard (and pointlessly) to keep what is happening now from happening. But we were taught we had about 100 years of modern energy consumption (if no new means of energy, such as nuclear, were used).

Back then, almost no one talked about the social consequences (mass migration out of equatorial zones, humans flocking en masse to coastlines, national boundaries held and maintained in increasingly militarized ways, etc, etc). Today, it's impossible to teach a science or social science class without piling on the evidence about planetary damage. It did occur to me that Kam and Bryer might have hoped to start forest fires or take out utility lines, to hasten the apocalypse.

The current generation does face a situation that is unparalleled, as the evidence for climate change and problems with migration are in the news daily (and in gaming worlds too). That wasn't the case in 1971. Or even 1990. Their sex and reproductive lives are entirely different from similarly aged people in 1970's-1990's.

 

[Zella]

Does anyone know offhand when the burning truck with the camper was found on july 19? I know--or I'm pretty sure--LD's remains were found afterward as part of that investigation, but has anyone seen a time on the 19th for that discovery as well?

 

[FactFinder3000]

The victim Lucas Fowler's father is a senior police officer in NSWPOL He was present at the early media conference as family of one of the victims - nothing more, nothing less.

There was no official Australian police liaison; no Crocodile Dundee, no Aboriginal trackers, or any other Australian stereotypes. Plenty of Aus media tho...

"NSW Police assistant commissioner Mark Jones told reporters in Sydney on Saturday that two homicide detectives would act in a liaison-type role"

NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

 

[LadyL]

Now waaaaait a minute...these dudes were NOT millennials. Millennials are born 1980-1994ish or so. Bryer was born in 2000 and Kam was born in either 2000 or 1999. They're Gen Z. I know everyone loves to pin everything on us millennials but they're definitely without a doubt not even part of that generation.

[bbm]

Millennials, also known as Generation Y (or simply Gen Y), are the demographic cohort following Generation X and preceding Generation Z. Researchers and popular media use the early 1980s as starting birth years and the mid-1990s to early 2000s as ending birth years.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mil...0.35i39j0l5.1434j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[missy1974]

At least one of the two people I know to have seen them alerted the RCMP but I believe the keys are still there.

Wow... I guess now it's maybe not as important since they were found dead, but if they had been found alive, they would be evidence in a trial. Even after it being made public that they were there, no one came and picked them up?!!! Silly. IMO

 

[Seattle1]

I would think that better preservation would be the reason especially in cases of advanced decomposition. But another reason would be preservation of some context (rotted clothing, soil, insects).

They may want to preserve the relationship of the skeletal parts and some underlying soil to each other. The items inside the box almost certainly would still be wrapped for preservation purposes, but their context to each other maintained within the box.

This may be occurring partly because the actual medical examination will occur in Winnipeg. Presumably, there was someone there from that team to photograph (or perhaps, RCMP-Manitoba used their own photographer, but it would be better to have an ME on site). Since the site is difficult to revisit, they may be taking relevant elements of the site to the ME's autopsy room. A forensic conservator may have directed the process.

Using a metal box is unusual, I'd say.

I recently saw use of a metal box and/or crate to carry remains for the first time in July. Reporters live tweeting/filming were also unaware until later the metal box contained human remains of Savannah Spurlock, TN. I agree that this must be to collect and preserve evidence with the body.

Chad K. Mills‏Verified account @ChadKMills
FBI and others just walked toward the front of the scene carrying a long metal crate, which it seems they’re preparing to load into a truck.

9:03 PM - 10 Jul 2019 pt

 

[LadyL]

They weren't thinking clearly and they definitely tried to avoid crowded areas. You can also tell this based on the route they took to escape. A northern remote route which eventually got them trapped.

They saw a van by the side of the road and took their chances. It could be that the owners stopped there for a break and were away at the moment, and the van could be working for all they knew.

what were they running from when they came across Chynna and Lucas that made them stop at an old, broken-down van?

 

[aphoto]

Wow... I guess now it's maybe not as important since they were found dead, but if they had been found alive, they would be evidence in a trial. Even after it being made public that they were there, no one came and picked them up?!!! Silly. IMO

They may have been picked up but if so it would have been in the last 24 hours and not over a week ago when they would have been first seen.

Even without a trial there is the potential that the keys could be evidence of another murder that hasn’t yet been linked to them. Unlikely but certainly possible.

 

[Kubirai]

This is a good way to destroy a tourist economy. Millions of dollars are lost in summer beach communities whenever a loose-lipped weather forecaster on Wednesdays predicts rain for the weekend.

I am imagining Lucas and Chynna found murdered on Myrtle Beach and a hurricane is approaching.

 

[NJSleuth91]

[bbm]

Millennials, also known as Generation Y (or simply Gen Y), are the demographic cohort following Generation X and preceding Generation Z. Researchers and popular media use the early 1980s as starting birth years and the mid-1990s to early 2000s as ending birth years.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mil...0.35i39j0l5.1434j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Defining generations: Where Millennials end and Generation Z begins

"In order to keep the Millennial generation analytically meaningful, and to begin looking at what might be unique about the next cohort, Pew Research Center decided a year ago to use 1996 as the last birth year for Millennials for our future work. Anyone born between 1981 and 1996 (ages 23 to 38 in 2019) is considered a Millennial, and anyone born from 1997 onward is part of a new generation."

There are conflicting definitions but the Pew Research Center is a pretty definitive source. Other criteria I've heard delineating millennials is whether they're old enough to have clear memories of 9/11, or old enough to remember a world where cell phones were uncommon. Personally I feel like another criteria is if they clearly remember a time when new rock music was still popular. My husband is 38 and I'm 27, and I feel like we have way more in common culturally with each other, like taste in music and so on, than I have with the current high school and college kids.

 

[MassGuy]

what were they running from when they came across Chynna and Lucas that made them stop at an old, broken-down van?

Nothing at that point, atleast as far as we know (rhetorical I know).

There are two likely reasons for the murders:

Robbery (most likely IMO).

Murder for murder’s sake.

 

[Kubirai]

On July 15, at the time of the first 2 murders, there was no reason to be concerned about roadside stops. Two people were killed on the highway and absolutely nothing was known about those people until ...

If we really think BC RCMP didn't need to notify drivers to exercise caution on July 15, this type of roadside murder will occur again on the same highways.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Here's my theory of what was their motive and what happened:

They didn't go to Whitehorse to find work. They were doing something illegal. I don't know what, maybe drugs or guns... something we may never know but definitely illegal. They had the evidence of their crime in their car, and were scared that the police might find the evidence and they get into trouble. They wanted to somehow get rid of their car, but they needed to steal another car first. They saw Lucas and Chynna's van parked by the highway. At first they didn't see the owner's around, and proceeded to steal the car. Suddenly Lucas and Chynna show up. Being the scared and inexperienced teens that they were, they shot the couple to death. Then they broke the windows of the van, opened its door and tried to start the engine... ****. The van doesn't work. Now they have murdered two people (without originally having the intention), a broken van, and their own car with whatever evidence in it, which they are trying so hard to destroy.

Now they are even more scared. They think there's no evidence to show that they were the murderers. They immediately jump into their car and try to get away as fast as they can. Later, they find another car by the highway, a RAV4, and an old gentleman chilling around. Having already murdered two people and nothing to lose, they kill the gentleman and steal his car. Again thinking that they have left no evidence and can get away with it if they drive really fast and get as far away as possible. They torch their own car, successfully destroy the evidence of what we will probably never know, and drive towards east.

They drive and drive and drive. Nonstop. They still have some hope that they may get away with all they have done. They're probably trying to make up a story to explain their torched car and the route they are taking. They have stole their victims IDs, just to buy themselves some time before the police can identify them and gather more information. At some point, when they are in northern Manitoba, they realize that they are stuck. The police and public know about them, know their faces and actively searching for them.

At this point, they're just too scared and don't really know what to do. They probably tried a few different scenarios: kill another innocent and get their car, hitchhike, etc. Finally, they decide to again torch the RAV4, destroy the evidance of something we may never know, and hide in the woods and wait until the police give up searching for them, or maybe meanwhile try to reach somewhere they can survive without being identified. Whatever their plan was, it went wrong and they ended up dying in the woods.

We may never know the details. But I believe they didn't just randomly decided to go and kill people. They ended up in a situation, got desperate and had to murder people, and after that they just had to go down and down. Kind of like Walter White in Breaking Bad. I don't think they killed people for mental issues or just for the sake of killing. They didn't harm the man who helped them get their car out of the mud although they had the perfect opportunity. I don't think they were evil serial killers. Just two kids (yes, kids) going after some dangerous adventure, and things went horribly wrong. Five lives wasted. What a shame...

I for sure agree with you about them wanting to steal the van... and then finding out it wouldn’t work. I’m not sure about them being on an illegal mission prior to that, but I do think that IF KM had stopped answering calls and texts from his parents (like BS had stopped responding to his dad) after he’d taken their truck, I think that KM’s parents might be worried enough to call the RCMP themselves to be on the lookout for the truck and KM and BS. It's possible they even texted that message to KM, that they were worried and wanted to hear back, or they'd contact the police. Maybe that prompted the desire to switch vehicles...

For this theory to make sense, KM and BS would’ve had to already have it in their minds that they were going on a one-way deadly adventure, killing along the way, as needed, to get the things they wanted.

EDITED to make it clear that this is my opinion only...

 

[em37]

I believe this question has been asked before but i don't remember seeing answer and long to find

Why was the roof of BS&KM truck bent? Picture can be seen on this link.
Port Alberni mayor says town will 'pull together' after manhunt ends

Thanks in advance for answer if there is one.

 

[Kubirai]

It was mentioned earlier that FBI were also involved in attempts to track down the suspects. Is this due to Chynna being a US citizen? Would there be other reasons they were involved, any suggestions what they could be?

She was a US citizen, and my guess is that FBI explored if Chynna Dease and Lucas Fowler were specifically targeted.

 

[1987]

I believe this question has been asked before but i don't remember seeing answer and long to find

Why was the roof of BS&KM truck bent? Picture can be seen on this link.
Port Alberni mayor says town will 'pull together' after manhunt ends

heat of fire and weight of camper at same time is what I think we decided.

 

[Kiantra]

I’m wondering if someone could clarify. BS and KM remains are currently in Winnipeg undergoing an autopsy. Will all forensics be conducted and gathered there or will their bodies be sent to BC for further investigation and gathering of evidence? I’m curious because the murders were in BC and all evidence from those murders are in BC. Thanks.

 

[Jessthinkin]

But they already had a vehicle with a camper that was apparently working (at least at that time) Why would they need/want an older model van?

IMO, KM had started ignoring his parents’ calls/texts (just as BS had started ignoring his father’s calls) and maybe KM thought his parents would soon contact RCMP about their “missing” son (and truck)... perhaps KM/BS(ridiculously) thought the van would escape notice on the road, or maybe their plan was to take that van off-road into a thicket and live in it... that would be a lot more comfortable for them, being super tall and all, than crouching into their own, over-the-can camper shell...
Edited to make it clear that this is my opinion...

 

[otto]

If we really think BC RCMP didn't need to notify drivers to exercise caution on July 15, this type of roadside murder will occur again on the same highways.

What I said is that police did not know cause of death until after the coroner had examined the bodies. I recall an 11 hour gap between RCMP arriving at the bodies and the coroner viewing the bodies. That means it was 10PM July 15 when anyone knew cause of death.

News alerts were released July 16.

Nothing could have been done faster.

 

[10ofRods]

I feel like the metal boxes were probably due to sanitation and ease of transport reasons. The remains may not have been...structurally sound, shall we say...not conducive to use of a body bag.

True, but in many cases, that just means several bags. If, however, something else was being preserved or the bodies weren't quite...to the point of several individuals bags, yep, it would have messed with evidence i

Lol you are aware you’re opening a whole new can of worms?

The school system in BC is flawed. The whole “no child left behind” has not had the desired outcome IMO. There’s a reason for the jokes about “participation ribbons”.

Same as the new method of school discipline. When kids/teens require disciplinary actions within the school system it isn’t handled well IMO. All to often the primary goal is to keep students within the school system and attending school. For example my kids school has a boy in grade 11 (now grade 12), he made terrible threats to a girl in grade 8 - the school solution - for four weeks when he stepped off the bus he was met by the principal or vice principal and essentially baby sat until he was escorted back to the bus at 3pm. Parents of the girl were led to believe it was an isolated incident, with their child being the only one who had issues with the student. As were the parents of five other girls that had told their parents about things he had said to them. It was essentially passed off as “boys will be boys”. It seems school administrations main goal is to keep students in the system so they can graduate. Delinquent acts are frequently not reported as it could then be a factor in the students future prospects for life ie college endeavours. A teen brought a pistol to my kids highschool two years ago, police and school ultimately decided not to pursue charges, despite numerous incidents previously that required discipline. It’s not just high school. When my kids were in elementary I was on PAC, even back then a group of parents had raised the possibility of a class action lawsuit against the school for failure to provide a safe school for their kids.

As for graduating without basic skills, ya it sounds like it can’t be true but it’s a real thing. For example our high school library now stocks book from a fourth grade level and up - as there’s many students who struggled with the books that were available - school is grade 8-12.

You hit the root of the problem. Kids more than ever are experiencing a lack of self esteem, of self worth. Many kids are entering the school system without basic skills. So does that mean that it’s starting at the family level? However that seems like an impossible challenge to even begin to tackle. There is no simple answer or remedy to the can of worms that’s for sure.

Yes. Being in education for 40 years makes me pretty aware. It's kind of hopeless in K-12, but...in college...in theory...we can do some weeding out.

What I find is that giving them even a few basic skills (no matter how low we have to go - fortunately, anthropology includes some very low level skill sets, including ones that are low on Bloom's taxonomy - but it's a start).

The thing is, the kids know they are incompetent (when they are). No matter how many medals they are given, unless they really are the best player on the soccer field, they know they aren't as good as the best players are. They learn to doubt the very agencies (parents, coaches, teachers) who might have given them a genuine thumbs up.

In the world of video games, though, they can definitely be affected by poor performance. So they go there and compete (very few kids choose non-competitive games).

Unfortunately, the skill set from video doesn't transfer into real life very well. Ability to judge distances, for example, is very poor in my current crop of students. Their typing ability is better, their writing is even a bit better (lots of opportunities to practice online). But figuring out a distance from Point A to Point B (with or without a map) eludes many of them. Maybe that's as it should be, I dunno.