Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[sprucetip]

As someone who lives in B.C., Canada, I wish people would get over this need to think we weren't aware. As someone who checks local and national headlines every morning, I was aware of a suspicious death a day or 2 after it happened.

Canadians read the words 'suspicious death' and know somethings not right. We all know what suspicious death means....No definitive cause of death yet but be forewarned - you should be aware.

Too many people posting here from elsewhere think we weren't warned. We were warned...if we cared to pay attention to the news.

A "day or two" after it happened is way too late! The possible murderers on the loose should have been mentioned by RCMP to everyone up and down the highway that very morning, regardless of whether they knew the exact cause of death from the coroner or not.

Apparently people in Fort Nelson knew about it that morning, before the press release came out the next day. Why wasn't that courtesy extended further up the highway? I'm 8hrs from the murder scene and sorry, but finding out a day or two later is way too freakin' late. Who knows where they went or who else could have been in their murderous path??

 

[sandbar]

Did anyone aid and abet KM and BS after the first or second incident? Did they go to Gillam because they knew someone? Did someone help them from a distance? Was anyone helping them financially or otherwise after the "gun violence" near Liard? Do we even know if the charges would have been manslaughter or first-degree
murder?

They were charged with 2nd degree in LD's case, which i've always thought odd. Doesn't that mean death without pre-meditation?

 

[SnooperDuper]

I met the cabbie myself and I think his story has a lot of weight. His phone is full of calls from local numbers, he remembers this wasn’t a local or familiar number. It’s definitely worth investigating further. I have a lot more examples that are currently only single sourced so I can’t reveal them as it would out the sources who spoke on background.

The day that the tips flooded in there was absolutely no activity in Gillam, it had appeared to die down there completely and officers in town were placing a lot of weight in those tips. I was in Gillam that day so that’s a first hand observation. Hindsight tells us that it was false but at the time it was as accurate as possible.

I think the media (especially the Australians) were starved for information at a time when they were expected to post a story every day, so they started making mountains out of molehills.

The cabbie said he talked to the man that would not give his name on Monday, July 22, which was the day they found the RAV4 and the start of operations in Gillam, so things were certainly not "dying down" but just starting the ratchet up.

I guess you think the cabbie was incredibly important because it was your closest contact to anybody that (may have) had contact with BS and KM. It sounds like you never had contact with anyone that actually talked to the two fugitives, and that's why you want to elevate the cabbie's story. It's a nothingburger, but I guess that's what passes for news in Oz.

 

[otto]

I met the cabbie myself and I think his story has a lot of weight. His phone is full of calls from local numbers, he remembers this wasn’t a local or familiar number. It’s definitely worth investigating further. I have a lot more examples that are currently only single sourced so I can’t reveal them as it would out the sources who spoke on background.

The day that the tips flooded in there was absolutely no activity in Gillam, it had appeared to die down there completely and officers in town were placing a lot of weight in those tips. I was in Gillam that day so that’s a first hand observation. Hindsight tells us that it was false but at the time it was as accurate as possible.

It's unlikely that the suspects called a cab. They had a car and could have burned it anywhere they chose - no reason to burn it and then call a cab for a ride up the road. Furthermore, even if they did call a cab, it has nothing to do with the investigation.

The York Landing sighting, numerous sightings in Ontario, the cab driver - all interesting, but irrelevant in terms of evidence and locating the suspects.

 

[Gina20]

YES! exactly... (but i don't know what KWIM is)

Know what I mean?

Vulnerable, impoverished, disenfranchised women, many of whom were substance abusers, for others who don't know. Women at risk.

 

[Optics]

I met the cabbie myself and I think his story has a lot of weight. His phone is full of calls from local numbers, he remembers this wasn’t a local or familiar number. It’s definitely worth investigating further. I have a lot more examples that are currently only single sourced so I can’t reveal them as it would out the sources who spoke on background.

The day that the tips flooded in there was absolutely no activity in Gillam, it had appeared to die down there completely and officers in town were placing a lot of weight in those tips. I was in Gillam that day so that’s a first hand observation. Hindsight tells us that it was false but at the time it was as accurate as possible.

Right @aphoto, however there was also "a lot of weight" placed toward the landfill sightings at York Landing - If I'm not mistaken the time the cabbie reported the call was around the time both suspects were burning the Rav4 near Bird/Sundance?

 

[sandbar]

A "day or two" after it happened is way too late! The possible murderers on the loose should have been mentioned by RCMP to everyone up and down the highway that very morning, regardless of whether they knew the exact cause of death from the coroner or not.

Apparently people in Fort Nelson knew about it that morning, before the press release came out the next day. Why wasn't that courtesy extended further up the highway? I'm 8hrs from the murder scene and sorry, but finding out a day or two later is way too freakin' late. Who knows where they went or who else could have been in their murderous path??

half kidding: there may well be a murder amongst you right now. be aware, take pre-cautions...

 

[Zella]

They were charged with 2nd degree in LD's case, which i've always thought odd. Doesn't that mean death without pre-meditation?

Premeditation is likely harder to establish, especially in this situation where motive remains unknown.

 

[sandbar]

Know what I mean?

Vulnerable, impoverished, disenfranchised women, many of whom were substance abusers, for others who don't know. Women at risk.

I wish I could like this more than once.

 

[Gina20]

It's unlikely that the suspects called a cab. They had a car and could have burned it anywhere they chose - no reason to burn it and then call a cab for a ride up the road. Furthermore, even if they did call a cab, it has nothing to do with the investigation.

The York Landing sighting, numerous sightings in Ontario, the cab driver - all interesting, but irrelevant in terms of evidence and locating the suspects.

Not investigated, so we'll never know.

 

[scrappinkat]

I think that was their way of saying it, a few of their articles were a little skewed in wording. They likely should have said : .... hunting for missing teens. Or used the more accurate "searching for teens".

Accuracy doesn’t sell, sensationalism does.

 

[missy1974]

I have also followed it from Day 1. It would have helped if most media had not ignored the police alerts in the start and published the RCMP first press release, specifically in BC at that time. The Yukon border was right there and Alaska not too far away, it was a sleepy start in those areas - sometimes in the quest to get that 5 second sound bite - media can disturb potential evidence. I'm not painting a brush on all media - but even across Canada media was a little slow on the upstart. MOO

I don't disagree with you about the above....

But you said that the media impeded the investigation in Manitoba, which I don't think is the case at all. I actually think they were very respectful and cautious with what they reported and tweeted. And the fact that a lot of the media left, I don't think had any bearing on whether a local guide spotted the sleeping bag, which eventually led to the bodies. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

They (the RCMP) didn't release it - the Aussie media did. We don't know if they mined that information from family members or how the reporter got the information. The RCMP only acknowledged gunshot way later.

I don't think the information was "mined." I recall the highway worker/paramedic Mr. Pierre that was on the scene with the bodies gave both print and video interviews citing the individuals were shot.

 

[10ofRods]

Speaking in fake accents while gaming is part of the fun and part of the game. The more accents a person can do, the better. Lends realism and provides humor. It's not considered weird at all within the giant, global gaming community.

And Russians who game often speak English so well, with so little accent, that their accents aren't quite identifiable, within the game. Most Russian gamers are able to do fake Russian accents (Natasha type accents) pretty well too.

Russian identities, within gaming, are more popular and glamorous than, say, Ukrainian or Georgian or Byelorussian or Polish or Czech. Way more games have characters that are Russian than the other nationalities (game-invented characters). I blame it all on James Bond movies.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It does seem that only the mindset of Mcleod and Schmegelsky went on hatred filled gamer induced killing spree is accepted here, at times it almost seems to be presented with glee.

Even if that’s the case I think we will learn the motive was not wanting to experience their Rust gameplay in real life. It’s going to be much more mundane than that.

Um...dude, yesterday I posted a very detailed article from NPR about the psychological profiles of spree killers and how societal interventions can prevent young people from turning violent. I specifically highlighted the parts that seemed to match what we know about Kam and Bryer, and they fit the profile pretty exactly (especially Bryer). I also posted information on the research that has been done on prolonged social isolation and violence. I talked about the many, many factors, extending from family dynamics to the entire culture we live in, that lead to young people becoming perpetrators of violence. Of course it's not just me who has been talking about these things, a lot of other people have been talking about these same topics, some even providing valuable insight from their own experience or work with troubled young people.

And now you're reducing what we've been discussing to "we're only allowed to say they killed people because of those darned evil video games." I think that is a wholly unfair characterization of this discussion. Video games were ONE factor out of MANY that we discussed. And the idea of video games playing a part is, as of now, just an unproven hypothesis. Nobody said for sure they were playing out Rust or PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds in real life. We're just speculating on whether it could have played a part.

And..."presented with glee"? Come on. Sometimes people have a dark sense of humor about certain aspects of a case, like the logistics of eating porkchops in the car, or "speaking of politics." That doesn't mean that we think this case is funny overall. This case is dark and depressing af and it's normal for people to look for humor to defuse a dark situation.

And the reason why people are rolling their eyes about the "third man" theory is because not only is there NO evidence of a third man in the multiple witness accounts or anything the RCMP has released, but also the RCMP specifically said in the press conference announcing Kam and Bryer's bodies being found that they didn't think any other suspects were involved.

 

[Zella]

I don't think the information was "mined." I recall the highway worker/paramedic Mr. Pierre that was on the scene with the bodies gave both print and video interviews citing the individuals were shot.

He didn't directly say they were shot, though, to the best of my recollection. He described wounds without saying what caused them.

 

[Optics]

I don't think the information was "mined." I recall the highway worker/paramedic Mr. Pierre that was on the scene with the bodies gave both print and video interviews citing the individuals were shot.

Wasn't that a few days later though?

 

[sprucetip]

Thank you for making that clear.

Everyone in Canada knows perfectly well what it means when RCMP are investigating suspicious deaths and they know that cause of death is irrelevant. It means that people have to be more careful until the situation is resolved. Listening to news is a normal daily activity in the Great White North.

It's now resolved, everyone is back to unlocked doors and helping neighbours.

Please don't speak for everyone in Canada. I have coworkers who are in their 20's who NEVER listen to the news. There are many who are absolutely clueless as to what's going on in the local news and don't care. I'm sure there are people like this all over the country.

But that's kind of irrelevant to my point anyways. My whole point is not about the terminology surrounding "suspicious deaths" or whether Canadians understand it or not (again, you don't know that "everyone" understands the terminology or its significance), it's the fact that the RCMP took 36 hours to get the info out. Again, the coroner does not need to examine the bodies for the RCMP to warn people in the surrounding area, so there is no excuse for the lag in time getting out some pretty important info to the traveling public.

 

[sprucetip]

As someone who lives in B.C., Canada, I wish people would get over this need to think we weren't aware. As someone who checks local and national headlines every morning, I was aware of a suspicious death a day or 2 after it happened.

Canadians read the words 'suspicious death' and know somethings not right. We all know what suspicious death means....No definitive cause of death yet but be forewarned - you should be aware.

Too many people posting here from elsewhere think we weren't warned. We were warned...if we cared to pay attention to the news.

Well lucky for you they didn't head down your way before the press release came out then eh? You would have had no clue there was a couple of killers closeby.

 

[sandbar]

Not investigated, so we'll never know.

C'mon...
Or LE is keeping it quiet,
or, LE triaged the tips and are following up with the cabbie,
or maybe LE thought it was nothing, and this convo might make them reconsider...
LE ARE STILL INVESTIGATING!!!