Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[aphoto]

I think you should consider becoming a verified insider or, at least, a verified professional. It would give you more leeway in what you are allowed to post and more authority in what you post.

I will do. Makes sense so I’ll submit it tomorrow, today is a bit busy with getting all my expense reports from my trip up north submitted.

Can I ask if you’ve personally met or talked to the gentleman who helped pull the RAV4 out of the mud? I’ve read some of the things he’s said and he seems to quite open and honest about his impressions of them along with the circumstances of helping them. Just curious if you had the chance to form an impression based on face to face interaction.

No I have not.

@aphoto I hope you consider doing this! It doesn't "out" who you are to us posters, but allows Tricia to verify that you are who you say you are. Here is a link to the process, and the benefits of being verified

Verified Professional and Insider Members

As above I will do it tomorrow.

I think the media (especially the Australians) were starved for information at a time when they were expected to post a story every day, so they started making mountains out of molehills.

The cabbie said he talked to the man that would not give his name on Monday, July 22, which was the day they found the RAV4 and the start of operations in Gillam, so things were certainly not "dying down" but just starting the ratchet up.

I guess you think the cabbie was incredibly important because it was your closest contact to anybody that (may have) had contact with BS and KM. It sounds like you never had contact with anyone that actually talked to the two fugitives, and that's why you want to elevate the cabbie's story. It's a nothingburger, but I guess that's what passes for news in Oz.

I should have been more clear, the day tips in Ontario came flooding in it was dead quiet in Gillam and police had considered seriously scaling back there.

I had face to face contact with two people who saw KM and BS. The Split Lake gas station employee and the tribal constable. So I’m not clutching at straws for people that met the pair.

It's unlikely that the suspects called a cab. They had a car and could have burned it anywhere they chose - no reason to burn it and then call a cab for a ride up the road. Furthermore, even if they did call a cab, it has nothing to do with the investigation.

The York Landing sighting, numerous sightings in Ontario, the cab driver - all interesting, but irrelevant in terms of evidence and locating the suspects.

I think it’s 100% not KM or BS who wanted the cab, the call came at a similar time to when they were likely burning the RAV4. It is however an interesting coincidence that an unfamiliar person wanted a ride to Bird but somehow didn’t know that the cab wasn’t capable of driving that road. Everyone in Gillam knows the cab only drives around town and doesn’t venture out to Bird. Could the person who called them have been familiar with KM and BS and was trying to link up with them?

Right @aphoto, however there was also "a lot of weight" placed toward the landfill sightings at York Landing - If I'm not mistaken the time the cabbie reported the call was around the time both suspects were burning the Rav4 near Bird/Sundance?

Correct, see above. I think RCMP should be ruling out the person who called wasn’t a friend or acquaintance of KM and BS as opposed to ruling in that it was them.

 

[MistyWaters]

If there is no inquest, then it is up to the police?

If the RCMP conclude there’s no other involvement aside from the two suspects, its highly possible they’ll release a final report of some sort but there will be no public “trial” to deem the victims guilty. Much like horrific domestic violence, somebody murders their spouse and sometimes even their children and then commits suicide, there’s not a public hearing to determine if in fact the perp was guilty. The role of the police is to identify who’s responsible for crime and issue an arrest. If they find there’s nobody to arrest because the suspects are dead, then yes, I suppose it could be said it’s up to them to make the determination only the suspects were guilty, albeit in a backwards sort of way.

 

[musicaljoke]

half kidding: there may well be a murder amongst you right now. be aware, take pre-cautions...

Yeah. I wonder how many people who complain that the RCMP doesn't tell them stuff have even read their Public Alerts and News Releases?

Right now, there are Canada wide warrants out for two guys from Surrey.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Speaking in fake accents while gaming is part of the fun and part of the game. The more accents a person can do, the better. Lends realism and provides humor. It's not considered weird at all within the giant, global gaming community.

And Russians who game often speak English so well, with so little accent, that their accents aren't quite identifiable, within the game. Most Russian gamers are able to do fake Russian accents (Natasha type accents) pretty well too.

Russian identities, within gaming, are more popular and glamorous than, say, Ukrainian or Georgian or Byelorussian or Polish or Czech. Way more games have characters that are Russian than the other nationalities (game-invented characters). I blame it all on James Bond movies.

Yeah I don't game so I had no idea of any of this. So I guess that aspect of things wasn't so weird after all, in the context of gaming...I wonder why his friend even mentioned that he talked in a Russian accent while gaming, then....

 

[missy1974]

I think it’s 100% not KM or BS who wanted the cab, the call came at a similar time to when they were likely burning the RAV4. It is however an interesting coincidence that an unfamiliar person wanted a ride to Bird but somehow didn’t know that the cab wasn’t capable of driving that road. Everyone in Gillam knows the cab only drives around town and doesn’t venture out to Bird. Could the person who called them have been familiar with KM and BS and was trying to link up with them?

Ok... here is a thought.... RCMP has said that they wanted someone to come forward that may have helped them not knowing who they were... maybe that is the person that called? Maybe the boys stopped someone, asked him if there was any way to get to Bird, after the cabbie said he couldn't drive them, maybe whoever it was that called drove them there himself? they could have paid him or given him something of value to do that?

 

[sandbar]

I was going to go on a rant here, then I changed my mind...

 

[MistyWaters]

C'mon...
Or LE is keeping it quiet,
or, LE triaged the tips and are following up with the cabbie,
or maybe LE thought it was nothing, and this convo might make them reconsider...
LE ARE STILL INVESTIGATING!!!

During the last PC, iirc the BC RCMP said they’d received 1000 tips. Aside from those already confirmed as unsubstantiated sightings, there may also be other knowledge-related tips that will prove helpful in identifying a possible motive.

 

[otto]

Please don't speak for everyone in Canada. I have coworkers who are in their 20's who NEVER listen to the news. There are many who are absolutely clueless as to what's going on in the local news and don't care. I'm sure there are people like this all over the country.

But that's kind of irrelevant to my point anyways. My whole point is not about the terminology surrounding "suspicious deaths" or whether Canadians understand it or not (again, you don't know that "everyone" understands the terminology or its significance), it's the fact that the RCMP took 36 hours to get the info out. Again, the coroner does not need to examine the bodies for the RCMP to warn people in the surrounding area, so there is no excuse for the lag in time getting out some pretty important info to the traveling public.

It seems a bit odd that people who don't care about current events are suddenly upset that they are unaware of current events. Whose fault is that?

Repeating the opinion that RCMP did not release any information for 36 hours does not make it true. It's still a false claim:

2019-07-16 11:18 PDT

"On Monday July 15 2019, at approximately 7:19 AM Northern Rockies front line officers were called to an area on highway 97 approximately 20 kilometres south of Liard Hot Springs.

Upon attendance police discovered two adults deceased. Both deaths appeared to be suspicious and Northern Rockies RCMP called for assistance from North District Major Crime Unit."​

RCMP in British Columbia - Police Investigate Suspicious Deaths

 

[aphoto]

Ok... here is a thought.... RCMP has said that they wanted someone to come forward that may have helped them not knowing who they were... maybe that is the person that called? Maybe the boys stopped someone, asked him if there was any way to get to Bird, after the cabbie said he couldn't drive them, maybe whoever it was that called drove them there himself? they could have paid him or given him something of value to do that?

Highly unlikely. The pair didn’t need any help getting to Bird, they burnt their car in walking distance to Bird. If the call to the cabbie is relevant it would be someone who was attempting to meet KM and BS

 

[Moonlitnight]

I was going to go on a rant here, then I changed my mind...

 

[10ofRods]

Yeah I don't game so I had no idea of any of this. So I guess that aspect of things wasn't so weird after all, in the context of gaming...I wonder why his friend even mentioned that he talked in a Russian accent while gaming, then....

Well, because it was obviously one of Kam's "trademarks" or gaming accomplishments. People work pretty hard at their characters, in-game. (Often harder than they work in their college classes). I have a student who, for example, decided he was going to be different and use a Swedish accent, which led him to study and do very well in both Swedish and Norwegian. He can read and write in Danish and Icelandic and is currently learning Russian. He is exceptionally good at Nordic languages, at this point, to say the least. He makes friends all over the world, but obviously is better able to communicate with Northern Europeans.

Japanese is very popular too, among gamers. Two gaming women in last year's linguistics class had gotten really good at Japanese and could pass intermediate level tests in Japanese. One had a Japanese (living in Japan) grandparent, a person she had never spoken to until she began learning Japanese for the game(s). Anyway, games can spur young people to learn and do many things that we have a hard time getting them to do in the classroom.

 

[Optics]

Please don't speak for everyone in Canada. I have coworkers who are in their 20's who NEVER listen to the news. There are many who are absolutely clueless as to what's going on in the local news and don't care. I'm sure there are people like this all over the country.

But that's kind of irrelevant to my point anyways. My whole point is not about the terminology surrounding "suspicious deaths" or whether Canadians understand it or not (again, you don't know that "everyone" understands the terminology or its significance), it's the fact that the RCMP took 36 hours to get the info out. Again, the coroner does not need to examine the bodies for the RCMP to warn people in the surrounding area, so there is no excuse for the lag in time getting out some pretty important info to the traveling public.

Actually, factoring in 4 hours it took physically for RCMP to get to the scene from Fort Nelson, it was 24 hours to the first official alert (keep in mind they were processing the crime scene for 11 hours into July 16) RCMP in British Columbia - Police Investigate Suspicious Deaths

 

[Zella]

Well, because it was obviously one of Kam's "trademarks" or gaming accomplishments.

RSBM

Do you mean Bryer's?

 

[SnooperDuper]

I should have been more clear, the day tips in Ontario came flooding in it was dead quiet in Gillam and police had considered seriously scaling back there.

I had face to face contact with two people who saw KM and BS. The Split Lake gas station employee and the tribal constable. So I’m not clutching at straws for people that met the pair.

But the Ontario hoax was 7/31/2019 and the cabbie's weird call was 7/22/2019, so why bother giving it any attention 9 days after it happened just because it was a slow news day on the 31st? I mean the cabbie's story was everywhere in the Aussie press for no good reason at all. It wasn't even covered in the Canadian press.

7/31/2019 the police started saying publicly that they thought the fugitives were dead. That's a good a reason as any to scale back. Why then was the Aussie press writing that the fugitives were actively evading LE at every turn when the RCMP had it right?

 

[Moriarty]

Yeah I don't game so I had no idea of any of this. So I guess that aspect of things wasn't so weird after all, in the context of gaming...I wonder why his friend even mentioned that he talked in a Russian accent while gaming, then....

Add to that that his own icon on Steam is the symbol of the Azov Battalion, a very anti-Russian militia in the Ukraine (although I think they got rolled into the National Guard there).

He seems like a kid searching for an identity and drawing on a mishmash of groups associated with militarism and bad-assery. One of his usernames on Steam ended with [KKK]...

 

[missy1974]

Highly unlikely. The pair didn’t need any help getting to Bird, they burnt their car in walking distance to Bird. If the call to the cabbie is relevant it would be someone who was attempting to meet KM and BS

ok then... nevermind haha The call could have been made when they were still closer to Gillam though. Hopefully they will eventually investigate since it seems that cabbie would cooperate and sounds like he has the phone number (if he knew it wasn't local), and the RCMP can determine if it was relevant or irrelevant.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Well, because it was obviously one of Kam's "trademarks" or gaming accomplishments. People work pretty hard at their characters, in-game. (Often harder than they work in their college classes). I have a student who, for example, decided he was going to be different and use a Swedish accent, which led him to study and do very well in both Swedish and Norwegian. He can read and write in Danish and Icelandic and is currently learning Russian. He is exceptionally good at Nordic languages, at this point, to say the least. He makes friends all over the world, but obviously is better able to communicate with Northern Europeans.

Japanese is very popular too, among gamers. Two gaming women in last year's linguistics class had gotten really good at Japanese and could pass intermediate level tests in Japanese. One had a Japanese (living in Japan) grandparent, a person she had never spoken to until she began learning Japanese for the game(s). Anyway, games can spur young people to learn and do many things that we have a hard time getting them to do in the classroom.

Interesting! It was actually Bryer that spoke in the Russian accent though, not Kam.

So, see, (sorry, harping on my post from the last page) those darned evil video games were actually a positive influence for those kids you mentioned. They aren't JUST a scourge on society that drives kids to nonsensical violence...it's a multi-factorial thing...people are complicated...who knew?

 

[sprucetip]

We are never going to agree on this issue. I've been trying hard to stay out of it as the discussion goes on and on and on because I know for a fact we will never agree on this issue. Some folks think the public should have been told earlier that Lucas and Chynna were shot. Some folks think the warnings given were adequate. It's a difference of opinion.

I'm finding the same, it's going in circles and people who don't live in the area (or aren't familiar with rural areas with limited cell service) have no clue what it's like. They just don't understand how connected the communities are along the highway are, how often many of us travel both highways, how familiar we all are with them and people along the way, how travelers connect on the highway, etc. All it takes is a couple signs posted that afternoon and word would have spread that day.

To me it doesn't matter about the terminology of the warning when it did come out or how much Canadians understand said terminology. My point is that it came out 24 hours too late. People on that highway that day and along the highway (us in the Yukon) deserved to know about the murders (or suspicious, deaths, whatever you want to call it I don't care), THAT DAY. If it's possible that there are killers driving along the highway, then alert people ASAP.

ETA: 24hrs too late, not 36

 

[MistyWaters]

This is ridiculous, maybe we need an AMBER ALERT for this...
**PUBLIC WARNING**
Bad people may be in your province, your neighbourhood, bad people may even be in your family. Not just today, but tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day... You are warned...

There’s multitude of “bad” people in every province, in every state, in every country who have warrants issued against them. Don’t you follow the local news in your hometown? An Amber Alert has nothing to do with wanted fugitives - it’s a child emergency protection system, who are believed to be abducted and at risk.

RCMP in British Columbia - Wanted Persons

 

[FactFinder3000]

Thank you for making that clear.

Everyone in Canada knows perfectly well what it means when RCMP are investigating suspicious deaths and they know that cause of death is irrelevant. It means that people have to be more careful until the situation is resolved. Listening to news is a normal daily activity in the Great White North.

It's now resolved, everyone is back to unlocked doors and helping neighbours.

I just don't even know what to say to this. Suspicious deaths could mean murder/suicide. That's no cause for concern to the general public. Furthermore, if somebody is beaten to death, then somebody who feels they can take care of themselves isn't going to worry. If the victim was shot to death, that's a whole different story. Your claims that "everybody know perfectly well" and "the cause of death is irrelevant" are simply not true. <modsnip >