Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[otto]

MAP/MATH HELP NEEDED:

The military captured 11,000 sq miles of imagery (~28000 sq kms) that's approx the size of Haiti
"Countries Compared by Geography > Land area > Sq. km. International Statistics at NationMaster.com", Food and Agriculture Organisation, electronic files and web site. Aggregates compiled by NationMaster. Retrieved from Countries Compared by Geography > Land area > Sq. km. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

@otto, can you maybe please draw an 11,000 sq mile box on your beautiful map? I recognize that 11000 square miles can be configured on myriad ways, but I can't fathom what that looks like...

Canada is the second largest country in the world, after Russia.

I couldn't guess the search boundaries. We know that RCMP searched between Gillam and Churchill, Gillam and York Landing, and East to Port Nelson and the Hudson Bay.

 

[sandbar]

Canada is the second largest country in the world, after Russia.

I couldn't guess the search boundaries. We know that RCMP searched between Gillam and Churchill, Gillam and York Landing, and East to Port Nelson and the Hudson Bay.

Does that seem to add up to 11000 sq mi?

 

[Curiouspersonxyz]

It's stunning. People are criticizing the cops for their tireless and professional efforts to locate a couple needles in ten thousand haystacks.

I can’t decide sometimes if a harsh criticism is really what someone is thinking based upon understanding and a rational deliberation of the circumstances as opposed to an opinion more akin to trolling that seeks to “stir up the pot”.

 

[sandbar]

Could you do a 5500 x 5500 in scale to your map then?

 

[aphoto]

RCMP could not secure all scenes during the 2 week investigation. Hopefully the media did not disturb crime scenes while RCMP were slogging through bog and bugs in pursuit of the suspects.

RCMP has adequate resources to secure whatever they wanted and media was far from their biggest concern. Not all officers were slogging through the bog and bugs. The containment (the guys in camo) and ERT teams did (the guys in solid green) were the only ones in the bush. They had regular officers for road blocks and door knocking, detectives, communications people, etc

I’m not saying it was a failing on rcmps part but not every officer was in the bush every day.

The media don’t with crime scenes. I’m not sure how much you know about the job but the demands placed on media by their editors and bosses mean that any ethics breach, including tampering with a crime scene, is a sackable offense.

 

[webbie]

No I think the 3rd person idea is insane. I spoke personally to the last two people to see the pair and none of them mentioned seeing a third person.

Oh I must have missed that.
Who were the last two people to see the pair and where was it?
Thanks

 

[otto]

I'm a bit torn on this, because I hate 2nd guessing the RCMP, but I don't know why the RCMP didn't do more to warn travellers in the area. I have travelled out to BC from SK many times, not up north, but through the mountains. They have roadside signs everywhere there and it would have been easy to have a warning put on them (as they did asking for dashcam footage). I don't know about everyone else or about that area, but when I'm travelling, I disconnect from SM and disconnect from news, and there are places that finding a local radio station or local news is just not something that can be done or I just don't do it. But those signs, we always make sure to slow down to read what they say... because they are there for a reason and it's usually to be informative.

I don't know if a warning would have changed what happened to Mr. Dyck, since we will probably never know the circumstances, but it could have prompted the boys to leave the area sooner so they weren't noticed or it could have prompted others to come forward sooner with sightings and/or fresher memories.

This is one thing that I hope the RCMP looks into.

I do not think anyone should expect to be "spoon fed" all information that may or may not be relevant to them. Society has a responsibility to pay attention and if they don't care enough to pay attention, that is their choice.

As soon as the suspects knew that the first two victims were identified, they committed another murder. Dr Dyck had 4 days to decide whether to change his plans due to the July 15 suspicious deaths on Hwy 97.

The Fowler family is "eternally grateful" and the Deese family thanks 'All of Canada' for everything that RCMP did to solve the murders.

 

[aphoto]

Oh I must have missed that.
Who were the last two people to see the pair and where was it?
Thanks

The tribal constable and the split lake gas station clerk are the last people to have spoken to them. There are other people who saw but didn’t speak to them.

 

[missy1974]

Help me understand. It was all over the news in BC on July 16 that there were two suspicious deaths on the Alaska hwy and Major Crimes was investigating. Did people ignore the information, are they not interested in local news? Why would people expect RCMP and Alaska police to do more?

You are assuming that everyone listens to the news or would have known this though. In my experience, when travelling, I feel so out of the loop when it comes to news, and I definitely don't listen to local news when I'm travelling, and I'm not even sure what is up there that would be considered "local news"? I would agree that the locals may have known though, if not the news, just from local gossip.

Shoot, just in the last few days I have heard from people that they didn't even know about these 2, which is just crazy to me... but not everyone seeks out the news like we do.

 

[otto]

I really hope the RCMP decide to share much of the story in the coming days and weeks, as best and openly they can, with perhaps the exception of anything that may be of privacy concern to the victim's families.

Right now, there is something that's bothering me about this case, and my spidy senses are definitely tingling. I have some alternate theories which I obviously can't post here without being banned. However, they are not complete theories, but rather pieces that may compose a theory that I still need to coalesce in my head.

I have a big problem with the trend in policing in the country with respect to secrecy. On all levels (municipal, provincial, and national), police are becoming more and more unwilling to share information...it's not just individuals in the ranks that are doing so, but it's becoming dangerously systemic, IMO. If you want the best example, look no further than the Toronto Danforth shooting...there are more red flags and elephants in the room in that case than you can imagine, and the police have gone radio silent with the exception of a whitewashed statement a year later. There are dozens and dozens of other examples.

To compound the issue, the media are becoming complicit cowards. There is barely a true investigative journalist left in the country that is affiliated with any major media outlet. True investigative journalism has gone underground or independent. With a compliant and complicit media, there is nobody to hold the police or politicians to account. I blame part of the issue to the corporatization and consolidation of the major media organizations, in that they now have the means to control their reporters completely...nowhere to go when you get fired as a reporter now. It's all one big media conglomerate at the top.

It's for these reasons I'm not holding out a lot of hope we are going to get any satisfactory information out of this case. It's the typical MO of LE these days to offer nothing but a few dog bones to make the pacified public and complicit media go away and back to sleep.

Prove me wrong, RCMP.

Information is carefully protected to preserve the integrity of the investigation. It all comes out during trial. There is no trial this time, but I expect information about the investigation will eventually be released - long after most have stopped paying attention.

 

[1987]

help me understand. the sleeping bag was floating or tangled in willows or both?

the smashed boat...could it have been hit by a V bottom boat...maybe it was partly sank or mostly sank, maybe it had nothing to do with the young men. there was some heavy rain I think, maybe it had been not out in the water but recently washed into the water. who knows how long that damage could have been on it.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Just wondering why anyone thinks that the Australian police would be involved in this case beyond being a liaison for the Fowler family? They literally have no jurisdiction in Canada.

The victim Lucas Fowler's father is a senior police officer in NSWPOL He was present at the early media conference as family of one of the victims - nothing more, nothing less.

There was no official Australian police liaison; no Crocodile Dundee, no Aboriginal trackers, or any other Australian stereotypes. Plenty of Aus media tho...

 

[Moriarty]

RSBM

Do you know or does anyone know... was an Alert sent out in this case? If there was no alert in those first days, how was the media going to run with it?

I found BC RCMP public alerts, and I don't see it, but not sure if this is an exhaustive list of all alerts.

RCMP in British Columbia - Public Alerts

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but BC RCMP did issue this release at 11am on July 16: RCMP in British Columbia - Police Investigate Suspicious Deaths

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Information is carefully protected to preserve the integrity of the investigation. It all comes out during trial. There is no trial this time, but I expect information about the investigation will eventually be released - long after most have stopped paying attention.

Yes I get the "trial" issue. As you said, there is not one here and info may come out eventually. No trial in the Danforth incident either, and it's been whitewashed and stonewalled. Hope the same is not the case here.

 

[Satchie]

LE avoid creating unnecessary public panic. Actually, I amend that to say RCMP won't give the media any reason to sow unnecessary public panic. That is the 'order' part of law and order.

We saw in the Gillam area, where there really was cause for alarm, how disruptive it was to the community: people afraid to go outside, children having nightmares. We saw the mass insanity on social media in Ontario.

LE will not create that situation unless they have actual evidence there is a threat.

 

[10ofRods]

I used the word “ice” in the generic sense. Morgues use chemical coolants to extend preservation of remains.

Yes, of course. I was using it the same way (I've seen both at use in mortuaries, but only chemical coolants by ME's, at least, recently - last 15 years at least).

Maybe the box was built with chemical coolant padding in mind. Would love to know more.

If there was ice, my hunch is that there were no obvious signs of cause of death, like bullet holes. In the more remote areas (say, outback of the Sierra here in California or Death Valley), if there was an obvious cause of death (badly fractured skull, stab wounds, bullet holes) it's unlikely that any coolant would be used.

ETA: Unlikely in most situations; this one is obviously remarkable in many respects.

 

[mmsshh]

They weren't thinking clearly and they definitely tried to avoid crowded areas. You can also tell this based on the route they took to escape. A northern remote route which eventually got them trapped.

They saw a van by the side of the road and took their chances. It could be that the owners stopped there for a break and were away at the moment, and the van could be working for all they knew.

 

[1987]

did the planes belong to RCMP? if they were charter planes the airline may have required a containment box to ship the bodies.

 

[SnooperDuper]

It was mentioned earlier that FBI were also involved in attempts to track down the suspects. Is this due to Chynna being a US citizen? Would there be other reasons they were involved, any suggestions what they could be?

They would have been the ones to inform CD's family that she has been found deceased.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I feel like the metal boxes were probably due to sanitation and ease of transport reasons. The remains may not have been...structurally sound, shall we say...not conducive to use of a body bag.