Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Deleted member 248860]

Can someone please link where BS's uncle said they left with a lot of money? The video I watched of him was short and didn't include that. Thanks in advance!

Go to the CBC National News YouTube channel. The interview was aired two nights ago.

 

[dameagatha]

But they do when there is international publicity and horror at the senseless murder of two foreign tourists and an innocent man in a tourist area. If the amount of time and money spent is equated to confirming guilt, that is frightening. No amount of money spent on plastic surgery can make someone "a natural beauty" and no amount of time and money trying to prove someone guilty with no evidence will lead to a conviction either. I wish LE were able to spend the same time and money on investigating the many other unsolved and continuing murders there.

I apologized if I already relied to this. The discussion was about evidence to dispute “alternative theories” of the case. The indirect yet overwhelming evidence of the scale and location of investigative response in Gillam was what persuaded me of what I do not have access to seeing: the government’s direct evidence.

 

[SnooperDuper]

They said that they would not do so as the family had requested them not to. This leads me to believe that it was something more than shooting that connected the three deaths. I doubt (again MOO) that the family would care if the public knew he was simply shot, revealing no more gory details. After all, L and C had been shot and what would it matter if the public knew he had been too, since it was perpetrated by the same people? ETA, I am now recalling that the fact L & C had been shot was revealed by L's father, and not the RCMP. Correct me if I am wrong.

The family feels LD should be remembered for what he achieved in life, not for how he died. He had a long accomplished career behind him.

Perhaps LF and CD are different because they where young free spirits without much life achievement behind them. The most notable part of their life was in fact how they died, and the loss of their potential.

 

[musicaljoke]

Just a clarification. The Crown routinely pre-screens charges only in B.C., Québec and New Brunswick. Other provinces are considering it, on the ground that it reduces the incidence of questionable charges. In those provinces, the Crown prosecutors are sometimes, but not routinely, involved in pre-screening charges. This means that they have to step in and stop proceedings post-charge if they disagree with the police charging decision.

In B.C., for example, which does routinely pre-screen, the Crown prosecutors use a test which is more stringent than the test set out in the Criminal Code.

P.S. For those who don’t know, Canada has a single Criminal Code that applies throughout the country. The provinces do not each have their own criminal law.

I believe it's protocol across Canada for theCrown to determine whether there is a reasonable prospect of conviction and whether a prosecution is in the public interest. If so, the Crown will proceed with the prosecution.

The order of events leading to trial may vary between the provinces, but the ultimate direction is the responsibility of the Crown.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Can someone please link where BS's uncle said they left with a lot of money? The video I watched of him was short and didn't include that. Thanks in advance!

Exactly Zella! I have been following the case on twitter during my road trip and listened to BS’s uncle statement to the press...I have never heard it mentioned that BS left with a lot of money. I would appreciate a link as well.

 

[NJSleuth91]

They said that they would not do so as the family had requested them not to. This leads me to believe that it was something more than shooting that connected the three deaths. I doubt (again MOO) that the family would care if the public knew he was simply shot, revealing no more gory details. After all, L and C had been shot and what would it matter if the public knew he had been too, since it was perpetrated by the same people? ETA, I am now recalling that the fact L & C had been shot was revealed by L's father, and not the RCMP. Correct me if I am wrong.

Who knows. They didn't even give a vague description like saying "gun violence." I don't think the RCMP wanted Lucas and Chynna's cause of death to be revealed either. But that lack of detail is important. If the victims were shot 50 times that implies a very different story than if they were shot once. We can't determine the "why" unless we know the "how."

Yes, they are playing games; that's how they do it here, and for good reason. They'll release/seed just enough info to prompt further information from the public or seed info to the perps in case they're listening. And as a Canadian, I'm used to it and very glad they do it this way.

Well, the perps have been dead for probably three weeks, so they're past the point of having info seeded to them. And I'm pretty sure the public would be better able to send in tips if they actually knew what was going on.

 

[JuneBug67]

It can be frustrating to follow a Canadian case. Even as a Canadian it is... but that is the way it is, and I guess if it was my friend or family member being accused, I might appreciate the rules, but as an observer and/or a victim or victim's family, it's definitely frustrating.

RSBM

An interesting-to-me anecdote from the Millard/Smich cases. We had several Americans following with us, and one of them said that Canadian cases are her favourites to follow precisely because of the way things work here. The bedrock principles of a public and transparent justice system are the same as they are in the US, but the timelines can be shifted forward. Protection of the course of justice is paramount in all decisions, and that can result in publication bans on parts of the proceedings, particularly in high profile cases. But those bans are virtually always temporary, so information is deferred, not suppressed.

All court proceedings are still open to the public and to journalists, but journalists may be unable to publish some details or proceedings until the ban is lifted, most typically after the trial. It essentially boils down to if the jury can’t hear it, neither can you right now. That’s a key aspect of what that American sleuther loved about it. She was in the position of following along just like a juror with no more information than they had. Once the publication bans are lifted, we learn via media what we missed, and all the court documents reflecting the proceedings and judgments that were temporarily held back end up in full in Canlii, an online legal database. I’m not sure what the Canlii equivalent in the US is - probably something state-by-state - but she loved the implementation here and the scope and detail of what could eventually be accessed.

There will be no trial here of course, but it’s my belief that the RCMP will assess a public interest and there will be adequate information released. It just won’t necessarily be quick, and there may be elements that are protected by our strong privacy laws, like LD’s injuries/cause of death were. The continuing investigation will be very thorough, leaks will be extremely unlikely, and then at some point we will learn what happened and LE’s conclusions will be supported with necessary facts. So, American friends, hang in there and be patient and I think you will be satisfied in the end.

 

[musicaljoke]

Question: If they shot themselves in the bush where their bodies were found, would someone not have heard gunshots?
The locals in York Landing heard gunshots that were later said to be a RCMP communications tatic.
How far would the sound of a gunshot travel in an area like that?

I donno. How far was it from human occupation? It was in dense bush, so maybe the sound was muffled by hills, distance and bush. Or maybe someone heard it, but the sound could not be traced.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

I believe it's protocol across Canada for theCrown to determine whether there is a reasonable prospect of conviction and whether a prosecution is in the public interest. If so, the Crown will proceed with the prosecution.

The order of events leading to trial may vary between the provinces, but the ultimate direction is the responsibility of the Crown.

Yes, I was just addressing when the Crown prosecutors start making those decisions. In B.C., Québec and New Brunswick, they are in charge before charges are laid.

 

[Kubirai]

But would the keys provide evidence of the murder? Is it possible that all the evidence needed to prove that the suspects committed the murder is onsite in BC, and that the site of the RAV burning doesn't have much evidentiary value? Is it a crime scene?

The frontline RCMP officers should not have decided on July 22/23 which objects near the burnt RAV4 will not provide any value.

But my main point is that found keys should never be discarded, just like found wallets. That simple rule has nothing to do with crime scenes.

Wallets and keys belong to people, and we are taught to find a way to return them.

 

[Zella]

Exactly Zella! I have been following the case on twitter during my road trip and listened to the BS’s uncle statement to the press...I have never heard it mentioned that BS left with a lot of money. I would appreciate a link as well.

Yes I'm going to have to search for it when I'm not on my phone.

I doubt they saved much from 5 weeks at wal-mart simply because I'm not sure how much they would have made. We know Bryer already spent some of his earnings on a suit, too. My guess is the McLeod family may have largely funded the trip. I'd love to know what Kam told his parents about why they were going and where.

This might also explain the complete lack of urgency for them of doing anything for days after the first murders. They had money to spare and, at the time, remained unconnected to the crime.

When I find it, Tarika, I will link it on here.

 

[Schmoosh]

If they killed themselves, they may have used a knife as we know Bryer owned one but do not know if they ever had a gun.

Well, so far nothing, LE are now saying that there is still the possibility of a 3rd person involved in the murders (reported in the Australian newspaper on 10/8/19)

Thanks. I believe the RCMP won't loosen up on any more details until they feel they've ruled out any 3rd, 4th etc people. The investigation still continues.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

I think we're in danger of again letting N.American bickering cause yet another thread shutdown?

We're all on the same side guys. Yes ,personal differences of opinion and of style are what make the threads useful. Not however when it descends into arch, pointed frustration and anger.

There's still 5 families and several communities dealing with the horror and seeming inhumanity of this case.

Let's chill and soothe our differences with respect?

 

[Deleted member 248860]

RSBM

An interesting-to-me anecdote from the Millard/Smich cases. We had several American following with us, and one of them said that Canadian cases are her favourites to follow precisely because of the way things work here. The bedrock principles of a public and transparent justice system are the same as they are in the US, but the timelines can be shifted forward. Protection of the course of justice is paramount in all decisions, and that can result in publication bans on parts of the proceedings, particularly in high profile cases. But those bans are virtually always temporary, so information is deferred, not suppressed.

All court proceedings are still open to the public and to journalists, but journalists may be unable to publish some details or proceedings until the ban is lifted, most typically after the trial. It essentially boils down to if the jury can’t hear it, neither can you right now. That’s a key aspect of what that American sleuther loved about it. She was in the position of following along just like a juror with no more information than they had. Once the publication bans are lifted, we learn via media what we missed, and all the court documents reflecting the proceedings and judgments that were temporarily held back end up in full in Canlii, an online legal database. I’m not sure what the Canlii equivalent in the US is - probably something state-by-state - but she loved the implementation here and the scope of what could eventually be accessed.

There will be no trial here of course, but it’s my belief that the RCMP will assess a public interest and there will be adequate information released. It just won’t necessarily be quick, and there may be elements that are protected by our strong privacy laws, like LD’s injuries/cause of death were. The continuing investigation will be very thorough, leaks will be extremely unlikely, and then at some point we will learn what happened and LE’s conclusions will be supported with necessary facts. So, American friends, hang in there and be patient and I think you will be satisfied in the end.

Just a clarification. There is a ban on publication on the preliminary inquiry, which is a pre-trial process to determine whether there is enough evidence to go to trial.

With one significant exception, there is no ban on publication on any of the trial. The exception is hearings, called voir dires, on whether evidence, such as a confession, is admissible. The press can only report on such evidence after the judge has ruled that it is admissible. At that point, the evidence goes to the jury, if there is one, and is also public.

 

[dameagatha]

Multiple members of the media saw and photographed a set of keys (that also seemed to have a leatherman style multi tool attached) amongst the ashes where the RAV4 was burnt. The keys remained in that spot for weeks as the police neglected to collect them. They could potentially be important evidence. <modsnip - rude to members>

Sorry, it was not “weeks.”

Edit: maybe it was. God I’ve lost all track of time: July 22 — Aug 9. Sorry again.

 

[Schmoosh]

And yet Canadians have been criticizing the RCMP left and right in this case, including on this board -- for example it was suggested greater transparency about the threat to the area may have saved Prof Dyck's life. Apparently this policy isn't going so well for you guys.

Not this Canadian. The threat area before Prof Dyck's death was on the other side of a mountain range and many hundreds of miles away.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Yes, I was just addressing when the Crown prosecutors start making those decisions. In B.C., Québec and New Brunswick, they are in charge before charges are laid.

That's right, in BC where the murders occurred they have to present the evidence to the Crown before a charge can be laid. In other provinces the police lay charges which are then weeded by the Crown in the early stages of a trial - some charges are tossed, some continue. Ontario has the latter system and it is notorious for clogged courts. The BC system means that only charges that are going to fly are ever issued.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/crime-charge-crown-attorneys-police-1.4178234

 

[NJSleuth91]

Let's put it this way...if the Walmart shooting that happened last week had been reported as "A man murdered 20 people at Walmart but we're not going to tell you how," wouldn't that seem weird to you? You would assume it was probably guns, but you would also wonder why they can't just say it.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

The Danforth Avenue mass shooting (15 shot, 2 killed) was on July 22, 2018 and the Toronto police department released its report, which is available on the internet, on June 21, 2019.

Yes, with a bucket of white paint poured on it first!

 

[Snoop Sister]

I think we're in danger of again letting N.American bickering cause yet another thread shutdown?

We're all on the same side guys. Yes ,personal differences of opinion and of style are what make the threads useful. Not however when it descends into arch, pointed frustration and anger.

There's still 5 families and several communities dealing with the horror and seeming inhumanity of this case.

Let's chill and soothe our differences with respect?

Exactly....this bickering grows old. I don’t want to see this thread closed again as it has been several times in the past. We all have a right to our own opinions and if you don’t agree scroll on or block the person you have an issue with. But, please stop it!