Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

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otto said:
RCMP used 4500 man hours to search 11,000 square kilometres and did not find them. It would be pointless to shout through a bullhorn through that aerial search.
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The should have borrowed a page out of the US Military's playbook when they drove Manuel Noriega out of the embassy in 1989 by blasting heavy metal music for days. I think this song blasted day and night up and down the Nelson would have done the trick...

 
LoisLane said:
I see Kam as the one to call the shots. His home and lifestyle was comfort for Bryer - even if Kams parents didn’t like it. Possibly Kam’s parents didn’t approve of Bryer and they were vocal about it. They could have felt that he was holding back Kam from his full potential or their expectations of Kam were not being met. This is quite common, parents not approving of friends/bf’s/gf’s. Maybe they blamed the friendship for his ‘failure to launch’.

It could have been a long time coming. Endless arguments about his future and his relationships and his lack of effort. He just can’t escape it.

The friendship between these two was a lifelong bond, a brotherhood of sorts.

Kam is so sick of his parents harping on him. Bryer is devoted to his only true friend and they are done with Port Alberni. Kam steels the truck, the guns, some cash and tells Bryer to pack his things.

Kam is not sure what will happen but he knows he has burned the bridge with his parents so he won’t be coming back. Maybe Bryer thought he had a chance to return to his life if he had to but for now he is sticking by his friend.

So Maybe Kam has such a strong influence that Bryer had no hesitation to take off with him. Maybe he did think they would try living on their own, find work, live in the camper truck and play Airsoft in the forest.

Then it goes off the rails. Bryer goes along because Kam is his world.
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I could definitely see something like this playing it.

I don't know that we will ever know since the McLeods have been quiet, and I don't think that will change, but I would love to know what they thought of Bryer. He was over at their house a lot apparently, so I assume they got to know him fairly well. Was he always well-behaved there? Was he considered almost an honorary part of the family? Did they feel sorry for him and make an effort to include him? Did he engage in some of his more offensive behavior around them? Or did he just kind of rub Kam's parents the wrong way? Did they secret wish their son would find a less weird best friend? Or did they vocally express their concern about him to Kam?
 
A few general thoughts;
I've long puzzled over the two burning vehicles, but the couple's van was not burned.
I also note that there's no sign of a license plate on any of the pictures I';ve seen of the burned vehicles. License plates tend to be attached (rear, anyway) with steel screws or bolts, so I would not expect them to come off from a vehicle fire. This made me wonder if the suspects might have thought they could destroy any certain links between themselves it via removing the plates and burning the vehicles, due to being under the mistaken impression that the license plate is the only way to trace a vehicle. They did, after all, burn both before being declared suspects.

As for their suicides, my hunch is that the RCMP thinks they were alive for at least several days after the RAV4 burned. During that time, the police search (especially helicopters and C-130's) would be quite noticeable. Also, one of them circling might be taken by the suspects as an indication they had been spotted. Or, they had a radio (there are three stations in Gillem). Once they knew they had no chance, they decided to cash out - and the bugs were probably making them desperate. My personal opinion is I'm glad they did this, rather than going for the shoot-out option where officers and/or innocent people might have been hurt or killed.

As for the guns... my hunch is that if they were long guns, the alcohol checkpoint search could not have been thorough. The other possibility is handguns that were on their persons.
 
Seattle1 said:
I'm trying to understand your post.

When you say "they" are you referring the KM & BS, and if so, why can't they legally own or purchase a rifle? This advice seems contrary to RCMP firearm owners and users website. Thanks for clarification.

Firearm Owners and Users Aged 18 and Older - Royal Canadian Mounted Police
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Sorry, I will try to remember to go edit it for clarity. When I said they I was referring to the 10,000 youth PAL holders. Those youth who’ve competed the course and been granted a license are legally allowed to borrow a non-restricted rifle and those youth PAL holders are legally able to buy ammo. The youth PAL only allows for borrowing of a rifle, they would not be able to go into a store and purchase one and they can’t legally own a handle down either. That’s just the way it is, not sure if there’s actually any explanation been given as to why borrowing is ok but owning/buying isn’t.

I have no idea if KM or BS were youth PAL holders, when they were in the age bracket, or not. If not then they would have needed to be in direct and constant supervision of a PAL holder while using that PAL holders firearms. (If they ever did that activity again I have no clue)
 
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sprucetip said:
Good question. Well I’ve smelled it a few times actually. One was a grizzly kill (or scavenge) and he chased me out of there, thankfully I was on a quad. It was on an old cutline, but bushy enough I didn’t see him. When he came chasing he was probably a few hundred feet away.

Other times I’ve smelled dead things, I usually hightail it out of there because of the former bear incident so not sure how far away they’ve been. But it’s pretty dense bush for the most part. I do think it’d be tough for a human to smell 1 km away but not a cadaver dog. I’m no expert in those dogs though.

That said, maybe the bugs/animals/weather got to the bodies by then and they were dried out a bit and not as smelly as those first days of decomposition.
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Maybe LE saw scavenger birds in the area where the bodies were found.
 
Seattle1 said:
Constables are looking for alcohol and drugs, but also did not see weapons.

The teens missed the check stop, and they were followed, and and pulled over.

The suspects did not get out of the car, answered questions, and drove away.

They were also seen leaving community short while later after getting fuel as they stated at the stop.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

tataskweyak-cree-nation-check-stop.JPG


A rookie band constable on a remote Manitoba First Nation says he saw the men who are now Canada's most wanted fugitives drive through his community's checkstop a day before police said they were wanted in connection with three killings.

The checkstop is set up to prevent alcohol and drugs from entering the community of about 2,300 on the reserve, which is located 711 kilometres from Winnipeg. bbm

Saunders said the men drove past the checkstop slowly and he caught up with them down the road where they stopped.

"I told them that you know you're supposed to stop ... and then they said sorry about that, the driver said sorry, and then I asked them where they came from and they said Vancouver," the constable, who started the role in March, said.

The constable said the two men told him they were going into the community to get gas. He said he informed them he had to search their vehicle — an SUV.

"I didn't see no camping gear, no maps, no weapons, no drugs or alcohol."
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MOO But a sleeping bag seen by a guide was the tip off at York Factory. Where did they get the stuff? I might have missed when that happened.
 
LoisLane said:
I see Kam as the one to call the shots. His home and lifestyle was comfort for Bryer - even if Kams parents didn’t like it. Possibly Kam’s parents didn’t approve of Bryer and they were vocal about it. They could have felt that he was holding back Kam from his full potential or their expectations of Kam were not being met. This is quite common, parents not approving of friends/bf’s/gf’s. Maybe they blamed the friendship for his ‘failure to launch’.

It could have been a long time coming. Endless arguments about his future and his relationships and his lack of effort. He just can’t escape it.

The friendship between these two was a lifelong bond, a brotherhood of sorts.

Kam is so sick of his parents harping on him. Bryer is devoted to his only true friend and they are done with Port Alberni. Kam steels the truck, the guns, some cash and tells Bryer to pack his things.

Kam is not sure what will happen but he knows he has burned the bridge with his parents so he won’t be coming back. Maybe Bryer thought he had a chance to return to his life if he had to but for now he is sticking by his friend.

So Maybe Kam has such a strong influence that Bryer had no hesitation to take off with him. Maybe he did think they would try living on their own, find work, live in the camper truck and play Airsoft in the forest.

Then it goes off the rails. Bryer goes along because Kam is his world.
Click to expand...

I could see this as a possible scenario.

Zella said:
I could definitely see something like this playing it.

I don't know that we will ever know since the McLeods have been quiet, and I don't think that will change, but I would love to know what they thought of Bryer. He was over at their house a lot apparently, so I assume they got to know him fairly well. Was he always well-behaved there? Was he considered almost an honorary part of the family? Did they feel sorry for him and make an effort to include him? Did he engage in some of his more offensive behavior around them? Or did he just kind of rub Kam's parents the wrong way? Did they secret wish their son would find a less weird best friend? Or did they vocally express their concern about him to Kam?
Click to expand...

I have wondered this too. You would think that if they were that close for years and he was over all the time, he would almost become like another son to them. Plus if they really disapproved of him, they could have banned him from coming over, prevented Kam from working with him, or prevented Kam from going on the trip with him, but they never did. So I'm going to assume they were fine with the friendship. Plus, Bryer seemed to be well behaved in the context of a stable home environment.
 
Zella said:
I could definitely see something like this playing it.

I don't know that we will ever know since the McLeods have been quiet, and I don't think that will change, but I would love to know what they thought of Bryer. He was over at their house a lot apparently, so I assume they got to know him fairly well. Was he always well-behaved there? Was he considered almost an honorary part of the family? Did they feel sorry for him and make an effort to include him? Did he engage in some of his more offensive behavior around them? Or did he just kind of rub Kam's parents the wrong way? Did they secret wish their son would find a less weird best friend? Or did they vocally express their concern about him to Kam?
Click to expand...

I think he was all of those things!
 
LoisLane said:
I see Kam as the one to call the shots. His home and lifestyle was comfort for Bryer - even if Kams parents didn’t like it. Possibly Kam’s parents didn’t approve of Bryer and they were vocal about it. They could have felt that he was holding back Kam from his full potential or their expectations of Kam were not being met. This is quite common, parents not approving of friends/bf’s/gf’s. Maybe they blamed the friendship for his ‘failure to launch’.

It could have been a long time coming. Endless arguments about his future and his relationships and his lack of effort. He just can’t escape it.
Click to expand...

SBM. I think that's totally possible! Kam's parents might've even gave him an ultimatum if word got out about BS's behavior or if they were threatened with being separated.
Arizona 123 said:
As for the guns... my hunch is that if they were long guns, the alcohol checkpoint search could not have been thorough. The other possibility is handguns that were on their persons.
Click to expand...

SBM - There was that comment about Bryer holding his pants up or something like that and theorizing here on WS that a gun was in his waist. Both guys probably did have smaller guns maybe on them tucked in their pants maybe (probably like they've seen in so many movies) and could've gotten by the checkpoint.
 
otto said:
Right. August 2, a red and white water jug and a mangled boat were found on the Neson River Shore. It was later reported that "personal items" were found upstream of rapids and the boat.

People have a right to reply to accusations. If they are accused, and they are dead, they are deprived to the right to defend themselves. Canadian courts cannot find dead people guilty of a crime.
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Dead people don't have rights.
 
NJSleuth91 said:
I have wondered this too. You would think that if they were that close for years and he was over all the time, he would almost become like another son to them. Plus if they really disapproved of him, they could have banned him from coming over, prevented Kam from working with him, or prevented Kam from going on the trip with him, but they never did. So I'm going to assume they were fine with the friendship. Plus, Bryer seemed to be well behaved in the context of a stable home environment.
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SBM

Yeah I suspect if they did have any qualms about the friendship, it must not have been significant or vocalized since there was never, from what I can tell, any effort to rein in how much time they spent together.
 
NJSleuth91 said:
I could see this as a possible scenario.

I have wondered this too. You would think that if they were that close for years and he was over all the time, he would almost become like another son to them. Plus if they really disapproved of him, they could have banned him from coming over, prevented Kam from working with him, or prevented Kam from going on the trip with him, but they never did. So I'm going to assume they were fine with the friendship. Plus, Bryer seemed to be well behaved in the context of a stable home environment.
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The other side of the coin is they are now out of high school, time to grow up, time to move on and make changes. Did they just graduate this June 2019 or last year? I'm foggy on the grad stuff.

Kam's parents maybe thought he'd outgrow Bryer and if that wasn't happening maybe they said one last roadtrip then you need to think about your future and might be time to cut ties with the bestie. I'm curious like you about the dynamic at Kam's house with Bryer and the family in general.
 
Boxer said:
MOO But a sleeping bag seen by a guide was the tip off at York Factory. Where did they get the stuff? I might have missed when that happened.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it was inside the vehicle when stopped by constable. I recall the guy that pulled the teens to the road also saw the sleeping bag airing/drying on the fence.

One of the constables said he saw tub with camping gear, and maps in the vehicle, and the other constable did not. This seemed to lead to confusion when the constable that was talking to the "driver" and/or KM was cited as seeing these things when it was his partner, walking around and inspecting the vehicle that saw the stuff.

(In my opinion, I think it was more a CYA issue with him not wanting to be associated with teens that got past check stop). MOO
 
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Lalalacasbah said:
The other side of the coin is they are now out of high school, time to grow up, time to move on and make changes. Did they just graduate this June 2019 or last year? I'm foggy on the grad stuff.

Kam's parents maybe thought he'd outgrow Bryer and if that wasn't happening maybe they said one last roadtrip then you need to think about your future and might be time to cut ties with the bestie. I'm curious like you about the dynamic at Kam's house with Bryer and the family in general.
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The graduation thing is murky. Kam was in last year's newspaper as a grad. There is conflicting information on whether or not Bryer actually graduated, but if he did, it was this year. I am really wondering what Kam did for the year if he wasn't in school. He apparently wasn't working if Wal-Mart was in fact his first job.

Edited to add: source on 2018 graduation for Kam
https://www.albernivalleynews.com/e...180704110752-01b5343009a04ae8926bf77bfd570f50
 
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