Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[NJSleuth91]

I did want to add too, I remember an interview with one of the survival experts and some of the Gillam locals that they could have lived off of blackberries and blueberries for a few days but we all know berries are only going to keep you alive temporarily. Insects (protein) however... Makes me wonder if they were willing to go to that extreme. I would if I was starving.

I'm not sure what the logistics would be of eating insects, but if they really wanted to be "survivalist," they would. TBH I'm wondering if they brought a few days' worth of food, and when it ran out, that's when they gave up.

Another thing I wanted to add about Bryer and Kam's relationship. I absolutely agree, they saw each other as equals and one would rather die than face a world without the other by his side or as you said prison. I totally get that.

Agreed and I think they were terrified of prison even more than death, for a few reasons: a) they...would not have fared well in prison, I mean just look at them, b) the thought of being separated forever and never seeing or talking to each other again was too much for them to think of -- if they felt like it was them against the world before all this, then at this point they were definitely thinking everyone on earth hated them except for each other, c) I suspect that Bryer was anti-police due to the events that happened with his family. It's very likely he had witnessed his dad getting arrested at a young age, and maybe even felt that the police "broke" his dad and were responsible for the eight-year separation. If so, I think he would have never wanted to allow the police to "break" him in his mind.

Another thing, I know everyone has suggested that Kam's family was considerably wealthy. I'm not saying they didn't have money but I also don't think they were filthy rich. I would say more upper middle class, doing well but not living a lavish existence either. British Columbia is very expensive and Vancouver is ridiculous.

Yeah it seems like Vancouver Island is almost as expensive as New Jersey! I also think they were upper middle class but not insanely rich or anything.

I do think Keith Mcleod (unsure of Mother's name) expected Kam to go out and get a job, begin supporting himself and gain some life perspective.

Someone said something on here about how in Port Alberni, young people are kind of expected to make their own way in the world, like it has kind of a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" culture.

Still, I honestly cannot picture for the life of me either of these boys doing roughneck labor like working on an oil field in Alberta, that dam project in Northern British Columbia or even Keith's barge towing business. Even that sounds rather "gruff" for lack of a better word.

Me either. But probably their parents were hoping they would grow up a bit and be able to do something, if not heavy manual labor, maybe even decide to go to college.

I have to wonder if Kam was given an ultimatum to take a summer road trip for a couple weeks, but the "rents" expected a decision on what he's going to do with his life upon return. Something concrete like a big move to a bigger city or college. Wanting neither, Kam and Bryer gave their families an "elevator pitch" of what they're doing for peace of mind and set off with no real plan, just the road and each other. ~All just my opinion of course.

I could definitely see this happening. And maybe they went into a dark spiral because of feeling pressure and a lack of options about their future.

All JMO.

 

[Errrr]

I'm still holding out hope...judge me if you want!

My sisters boyfriend left her a suicide note for her to find with his body. The police took it and his brother had it destroyed. They didn’t honour it either.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Aug 12, in a CTV news article it states,

“We anticipate that the charge will be abated once the (prosecution service) receives official confirmation that the accused is deceased. That will conclude the prosecution," said Dan McLaughlin”

Considering this and the fact no further charges can be made against a deceased person, how much information do you think the LE will share in their report? What would be left out? Would they share the details leading up to the charges for LD death? Or, will they just share enough to satisfy the public no other suspects are out there? Curious.

They will likely provide us with evidence proving that Kam and Bryer are, in fact, the murderers of the 3 victims. We will likely get a press conference and a statement or report.

This was discussed earlier and it seems opinions vary on how much detail they will go into.

 

[Inkblot]

My sisters boyfriend left her a suicide note for her to find with his body. The police took it and his brother had it destroyed. They didn’t honour it either.

My brother committed suicide. Didn't have a will. Put everything down in an informal email addressed to me. Wanted everything to go to his only daughter including condo, life insurance... all of it. It was honored completely. He didn't leave anything to his ex-wife and she got nothing. This is in BC.

 

[SovereignSnake]

I'm not sure what the logistics would be of eating insects, but if they really wanted to be "survivalist," they would. TBH I'm wondering if they brought a few days' worth of food, and when it ran out, that's when they gave up.

You got by brain cranking about edible insects. I remember when we were younger, my Grandpa would teach my two brothers, my cousin and myself basic outdoor survival tactics and how to identify berries, plants, mushrooms and bugs you can eat to stay alive. I remember we even had this small but massive North American plants and wild life book too that I loved looking at and studying. Interesting, I did not know you could eat bees according to this chart.

https://www.precisionnutrition.com/eating-bugs

 

[KR72]

I asked a friend and coworker of mine who's very experienced in the outdoors, including locations in parts of Northern Manitoba what he thought of the two out in the bush around the Gillam area, and he said no chance of survival past a few days to a week. He even lived in Gillam for several years when it was still a railway town so he knows the area well.

My buddy planted trees for 10 years in parts of Northern Ontario, Manitoba and BC and knows all kinds of "bushcraft" survival methods, (making shelter from tree branches/boughs, fishing poles from branches, how to set up and make rabbit snares, he even made a fish "trap" one time from pine branches etc...) and said that unless he was properly equipped he wouldn't last in the area around Gillam more than a couple of weeks, never mind KM and BS despite their "training." He said he wasn't surprised that the two ended up killing themselves up there and maintained his belief that the two stayed in the area and were dead in the woods. The only thing he was surprised at was how quickly the bodies were located.

I'll give him credit that he said right from the beginning and stuck to his word when everyone else thought they'd either escaped the area or found some old trappers cabin to hunker down in.

 

[Jan424]

You got by brain cranking about edible insects. I remember when we were younger, my Grandpa would teach my two brothers, my cousin and myself basic outdoor survival tactics and how to identify berries, plants, mushrooms and bugs you can eat to stay alive. I remember we even had this small but massive North American plants and wild life book too that I loved looking at and studying. Interesting, I did not know you could eat bees according to this chart.

https://www.precisionnutrition.com/eating-bugs

Geez the mere thought of eating bugs grosses me out but, if I was starving and wanted to survive, I’d definitely get past that. I just wonder if they cared enough or really knew their end game all along. MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

Geez the mere thought of eating bugs grosses me out but, if I was starving and wanted to survive, I’d definitely get past that. I just wonder if they cared enough or really knew their end game all along. MOO

I honestly don't think there was a plan for their escape. Looking at the route they traveled, it looks to me like they just picked a random direction and traveled in that direction until they couldn't anymore, and then walked until they couldn't anymore. I think it was moment to moment thinking. I think they were in denial that they were out of options and this was a process of accepting that their lives were over.

If they had planned to live as fugitives in the wilderness, I don't think they would have picked that particular location. Even if they had managed to get enough food to survive somehow, they would have died in a couple of months as soon as it got cold...it gets insanely cold there.

 

[copkid]

plus, most people who have to wear a mask like that do not find it comfortable or funny; it is an unpleasant but necessary part of a dangerous job, and here he is sporting it for fun

I really do not think it is a "gas mask" in the picture of BS
I think it is an airsoft mask, and I think he likely received it as a birthday gift.
Not sinister, not evil, just part of the airsoft attire. JMO

https://www.amazon.ca/Protection-Ha...65512&s=gateway&sprefix=Airso,aps,222&sr=8-10

 

[Pyecraft]

...... traveled in that direction until they couldn't anymore,

I'm curious as to why it looks this way to you NJ that they couldn't travel anymore. They had just gassed up. Is it so inconceivable that they had parked up expecting someone? Can't see them deciding 'ok, this is as good a place as any'. I see them desperate to drive on until the gas ran out, get as far away as possible.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I'm curious as to why it looks this way to you NJ that they couldn't travel anymore. They had just gassed up. Is it so inconceivable that they had parked up expecting someone? Can't see them deciding 'ok, this is as good a place as any'. I see them desperate to drive on until the gas ran out, get as far away as possible.

Didn't they get to the end of the highway, or at least close to the end?

I think they felt they couldn't turn back because they had been stopped by the police in Split Lake and they were concerned about being recognized. But also, I think they weren't thinking about the plan once they reached the end of the highway. Otherwise they wouldn't have picked a dead end highway. I think it was moment to moment.

 

[CinNC]

I'm curious as to why it looks this way to you NJ that they couldn't travel anymore. They had just gassed up. Is it so inconceivable that they had parked up expecting someone? Can't see them deciding 'ok, this is as good a place as any'. I see them desperate to drive on until the gas ran out, get as far away as possible.

They may have topped the gas tank off to ensure the SUV burned. Weeks and weeks ago I read that they ended up in a ditch because they had taken a turn too quickly on the gravel road and ended up in the ditch. I don't have a link, unfortunately, as it has been weeks, now.

Could it be that the SUV would not start after they ran off the road?

Conjecture and JMO. Not disagreeing; just exploring another take on the $20 worth of gas.

 

[copkid]

I'm curious as to why it looks this way to you NJ that they couldn't travel anymore. They had just gassed up. Is it so inconceivable that they had parked up expecting someone? Can't see them deciding 'ok, this is as good a place as any'. I see them desperate to drive on until the gas ran out, get as far away as possible.

They did, however, know that they were driving a stolen vehicle. My guess is the checkstop by the Split Lake constables spooked them, causing them to abandon said stolen vehicle. Why burn it though? If they had simply abandoned the Rav4 in the bush, it may have been hours or even days before it was discovered giving them some time to get out of the area? By burning it they immediately brought all the attention right to the area they were hiding in? Almost like they wanted to be caught? It is baffling really! JMO

 

[NJSleuth91]

They did, however, know that they were driving a stolen vehicle. My guess is the checkstop by the Split Lake constables spooked them, causing them to abandon said stolen vehicle. Why burn it though? If they had simply abandoned the Rav4 in the bush, it may have been hours or even days before it was discovered giving them some time to get out of the area? By burning it they immediately brought all the attention right to the area they were hiding in? Almost like they wanted to be caught? It is baffling really! JMO

My theory on this is they weren't smart and they thought burning a car would actually make it unidentifiable, which is why they did it twice. Either that or because they were raised on "video games and Youtube" and so in their pop culture influenced impression of fugitives, they felt like burning things is just what you do.

 

[SteveP]

Posting this only because of the amount of time that has been spent in these many threads discussing Walmart, who both DS and KM worked for for a short period of time, immediately before quitting and embarking on their rampage, and sales of ammo at Walmart. The retailer made this statement today, regarding plans to stop selling handgun ammo and .223 caliber and 5.56 caliber, which can both be used in assault-type rifles. Not sure if this is company-wide, or just USA policy, (I assume company-wide), and not looking to instigate debate over gun control that will get this tread locked down.

Walmart ends all handgun ammunition sales and asks customers not to carry guns into stores - CNN

 

[SovereignSnake]

I'm curious as to why it looks this way to you NJ that they couldn't travel anymore. They had just gassed up. Is it so inconceivable that they had parked up expecting someone? Can't see them deciding 'ok, this is as good a place as any'. I see them desperate to drive on until the gas ran out, get as far away as possible.

This still makes me wonder if they lost control, skidded on some loose gravel and crashed the RAV outside Sundance. It's a little hard to judge by the photos but it looks like they really put that thing in the ditch. I was trying to calculate the gas situation too. I to figure out how much 20 dollars (that's about 15 US Dollars) in gas would go in a Toyota RAV but then had to consider what size engine it had? Was it all wheel drive or just front wheel, was it 6 cylinder or 4 cylinder? Then take into consideration, that drive from Split Lake to Sundance was about 105 miles. I do recall one of the officers who stopped them at the checkpoint said they were almost out of gas. Since we're not sure of the size of the RAV I'm going to hazard a guess and say that that 20 dollars (15 US) maybe got them half a tank? Was that all the cash they had left? What's more, I still think the area was not at all what they thought it was going to be. The roads were in rough shape, the desolation of the towns and the surrounding area did not occur to them. They probably even thought the Hudson Bay is littered with little fishing towns, art communities and touristy getaways perhaps. Then you actually look at the coast of Manitoba and Ontario and it's just nothing. I had no idea it was that isolated up there until I really started researching the area.

Here's the most zoomed out image I could find of the RAV in the ditch.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EARE-bTVAAAoi4L?format=jpg&name=large

 

[Jan424]

I honestly don't think there was a plan for their escape. Looking at the route they traveled, it looks to me like they just picked a random direction and traveled in that direction until they couldn't anymore, and then walked until they couldn't anymore. I think it was moment to moment thinking. I think they were in denial that they were out of options and this was a process of accepting that their lives were over.

If they had planned to live as fugitives in the wilderness, I don't think they would have picked that particular location. Even if they had managed to get enough food to survive somehow, they would have died in a couple of months as soon as it got cold...it gets insanely cold there.

I really think this is true, it makes the most sense. Especially since not much they did during that fateful trip made any sense at all. I agree with you this was a moment to moment thing... I guess they made up the rules as they went along. And they gave the term “took a wrong turn” new meaning! One thing tho, while I also believe they wanted to escape and elude capture (no way were they going to prison)..... for some reason, I keep thinking they knew dying was also a good possibility and were accepting of that as Plan B. I don’t think suicidal thoughts were new to Kam and Bryer. Of course, I definitely could be wrong... I’ve just always felt that this was the case with them. As always, MOO.

 

[NJSleuth91]

One thing tho, while I also believe they wanted to escape and elude capture (no way were they going to prison)..... for some reason, I keep thinking they knew dying was also a good possibility and were accepting of that as Plan B. I don’t think suicidal thoughts were new to Kam and Bryer. Of course, I definitely could be wrong... I’ve just always felt that this was the case with them. As always, MOO.

Agreed. I think it's likely they had been on and off suicidal for years leading up to this.

 

[copkid]

Posting this only because of the amount of time that has been spent in these many threads discussing Walmart, who both DS and KM worked for for a short period of time, immediately before quitting and embarking on their rampage, and sales of ammo at Walmart. The retailer made this statement today, regarding plans to stop selling handgun ammo and .223 caliber and 5.56 caliber, which can both be used in assault-type rifles. Not sure if this is company-wide, or just USA policy, (I assume company-wide), and not looking to instigate debate over gun control that will get this tread locked down.

Walmart ends all handgun ammunition sales and asks customers not to carry guns into stores - CNN

So many mass shootings in the US recently it is so sad.
I am Canadian, so the words "asks customers not to carry guns into stores", made me think, wow, I simply cannot imagine seeing someone packing a weapon in the checkout line at Canadian Tire!!

Yes @SteveP you are correct, no gun debate or the thread will be shut down and we do not want that to happen just about the time the RCMP report comes out!

 

[FactFinder3000]

This still makes me wonder if they lost control, skidded on some loose gravel and crashed the RAV outside Sundance. It's a little hard to judge by the photos but it looks like they really put that thing in the ditch. I was trying to calculate the gas situation too. I to figure out how much 20 dollars (that's about 15 US Dollars) in gas would go in a Toyota RAV but then had to consider what size engine it had? Was it all wheel drive or just front wheel, was it 6 cylinder or 4 cylinder? Then take into consideration, that drive from Split Lake to Sundance was about 105 miles. I do recall one of the officers who stopped them at the checkpoint said they were almost out of gas. Since we're not sure of the size of the RAV I'm going to hazard a guess and say that that 20 dollars (15 US) maybe got them half a tank? Was that all the cash they had left? What's more, I still think the area was not at all what they thought it was going to be. The roads were in rough shape, the desolation of the towns and the surrounding area did not occur to them. They probably even thought the Hudson Bay is littered with little fishing towns, art communities and touristy getaways perhaps. Then you actually look at the coast of Manitoba and Ontario and it's just nothing. I had no idea it was that isolated up there until I really started researching the area.

Here's the most zoomed out image I could find of the RAV in the ditch.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EARE-bTVAAAoi4L?format=jpg&name=large

I've studied various pics and it looks like the RAV4 is definitely stuck where they torched it. It's on very loose soil, and if it's not a 4x4, a wheel can dig in, and that's it, you're stuck. That's what it looks like happened, I can clearly see a wheel deep in the sand, and we know it's probably not a 4x4 because it got stuck in the mud earlier.

So here's my theory: I think they went to this area because they thought nobody would think to look for them there. They probably planned to hide the vehicle deep into the bushes or in the river. They could have intended to cover the vehicle with branches and live in it for a while. However, all that went out the window when they got stuck and they then had to come up with a plan B. They decided to torch the vehicle hoping it wouldn't be identified.

What's interesting is that a family that was nearby picking berries drove over in their truck, to see what the smoke was all about. K and B easily could have killed them for their vehicle.