Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[CaseZero]

October 17 and in Vancouver.. interesting!

Vancouver and Terrace?

 

[LoisLane]

I think holding it further from the eye works better than close up. I definitely see 'OTHERS' in there too, so we both see that... good! That's why I thought brothers or even mothers.

I may need to look with fresh eyes tomorrow. Brothers/mothers make sense.
Their initials are KAM, BAS if that helps anything.

I’m curious if reporters are asking follow up questions in regards to the report and if they can clarify this stuff.

 

[LoisLane]

Vancouver and Terrace?

Terrace were the original charges, now stayed.
This new posting for each of them states Vancouver.

 

[FactFinder3000]

On the gun, I think I see the words "f--- you" and then a bunch of scratches to cover it up, including a heart shaped face.

There is absolutely no way it says "Schmegelsky." Show me even half the letters. It's not there.

And why would anyone do it upside down? Very doubtful.

Somehow I missed the part when I read that article about Professor Dyck's license plate (singular...did they only remove one of the plates?) being dumped nearby. Did they really bring it into the woods with them, of all things? Did they really think the police wouldn't find it, or that removing it would make the car untraceable? Kam also brought his wallet with him and dumped it near the river. Like...why? These guys did so many things that made zero logical sense.

Like the racing stripe thing is so monumentally stupid as a method of disguise, and yet also a completely esoteric thing to think of doing. I would never even have considered that anyone would even come up with that idea. It's like something one of the characters on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia would come up with.

I'm not really familiar with either show, but I believe in Canada it's "Trailer Park Boys."

I think every step of the way these guys were going "ad hoc." They rolled with the situation. Homicidal and suicidal with only a loose game plan. Their actions do convey incredible cowardice to me. They wanted to kill people but were incredibly scared of being captured.

 

[Chingaling]

I think their logic was that they did (or didn't do) whatever they thought made sense (or didn't) at the time. I think that was also the extent of their planning. They made a plan and stuck to it until they needed another plan.

I think they just wanted to shock the world,any way they could.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I'm not really familiar with either show, but I believe in Canada it's "Trailer Park Boys."

LOL, definitely some overlap there too....

I think every step of the way these guys were going "ad hoc." They rolled with the situation. Homicidal and suicidal with only a loose game plan. Their actions do convey incredible cowardice to me. They wanted to kill people but were incredibly scared of being captured.

Sounds about right.

I think going to prison was their worst fear, even more than death. That's why they were terrified when they were stuck in the mud and when the cops pulled them over. And if Bryer actually was bullied in school (which I suspect he was, and I suspect Kam was too) that makes sense why they would be that afraid of prison. Had they actually been caught while they were driving, I think they would have done a suicide by cop thing.

 

[Grouper]

I think every step of the way these guys were going "ad hoc." They rolled with the situation. Homicidal and suicidal with only a loose game plan. Their actions do convey incredible cowardice to me. They wanted to kill people but were incredibly scared of being captured.

SBM.

To be fair, what criminal isn’t at least somewhat afraid of being captured? I mean... it’s not often we see someone commit a crime and then skip off to the nearest police station. That would be a neat little world to live in, but not how this one works.

(Although I have theories on criminals who subconsciously wish to be caught, and I think towards the end Kam leaving morsels of his personal items behind may have been out of a desire to be found — but no way to substantiate that so JMO).

 

[Lalalacasbah]

If the original charges were formally stayed because they were deceased, so what would this new court date be for?
View attachment 208264

Reason is APP which is application. Looks like murder charges for Dease Lake for the document filed 34325-1.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

On the gun, I think I see the words "f--- you" and then a bunch of scratches to cover it up, including a heart shaped face.

And why would anyone do it upside down? Very doubtful.

SBM - I'm trying to see the F YOU, I'll have to step back as I think I've been looking at it too long!

No, no... not do it upside down, they wouldn't have done that. It's just a technique to flip the photo to see if we see different words. Kinda like fresh eyes.

 

[NJSleuth91]

To be fair, what criminal isn’t at least somewhat afraid of being captured? I mean... it’s not often we see someone commit a crime and then skip off to the nearest police station. That would be a neat little world to live in, but not how this one works.

Ed Kemper?

I think most criminals will choose prison over death in the end though. And many of them, even the mass shooters, take plea deals for life without parole over death penalty (in places that have the death penalty). It's actually more uncommon for criminals to prefer death over capture, I think.

(Although I have theories on criminals who subconsciously wish to be caught, and I think towards the end Kam leaving morsels of his personal items behind may have been out of a desire to be found — but no way to substantiate that so JMO).

I think it was more because they wanted their remains to be found. And it worked, didn't it?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Reason is APP which is application. Looks like murder charges for Dease Lake for the document filed 34325-1.

View attachment 208272

Replying to my own post as I'm unsure about the court charges. If murder charges were stayed because they were deceased, not sure they'd charge again Oct 17th. So maybe that's not it. Hhhmm...

 

[FactFinder3000]

Ed Kemper?

I think most criminals will choose prison over death in the end though. And many of them, even the mass shooters, take plea deals for life without parole over death penalty (in places that have the death penalty). It's actually more uncommon for criminals to prefer death over capture, I think.

It definitely is uncommon to commit suicide over prison. Which is one reason I think we need to be careful about applying statistics. If we apply statistics, we could argue they didn't commit suicide, because murderous duos rarely do. Furthermore, many of them cooperate with authorities in order to take the death penalty off the table.

So this is a fairly unique case, although of course it brings to mind Columbine. Been reading up on that case. Very interesting psychological assessments out there.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

(Although I have theories on criminals who subconsciously wish to be caught, and I think towards the end Kam leaving morsels of his personal items behind may have been out of a desire to be found — but no way to substantiate that so JMO).

SBM - Interesting concept and observation. I didn't think of that before, you make a good point. It was mostly or only Kam leaving stuff behind.

That could be quite telling, I wonder what the behavioral analysts think about that. Is it a sign of conscience or wanting the notoriety? I think the latter unfortunately. Would love to know an experts opinion!

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Replying to my own post as I'm unsure about the court charges. If murder charges were stayed because they were deceased, not sure they'd charge again Oct 17th. So maybe that's not it. Hhhmm...

I was informed that October 17th is the official first appearance, which I assume not much will happen because they are deceased. But the original charges were brought in Terrace because it was the closest court to where Leonard was murdered. The first appearances were moved to Vancouver.

 

[Grouper]

Ed Kemper?

—

I think it was more because they wanted their remains to be found. And it worked, didn't it?

SBM

Ed Kemper was a real... “special” guy. He did turn himself in because IIRC the fear of being caught became too much for him. He gave in not because of guilt, but fear of a bad thing happening — so he took his fate into his own hands, which to me, flows in the same vein as suicide — except Ed wasn’t particularly suicidal as far as I know. Anyway.

(DISCLAIMER: all my knowledge of Ed Kemper comes from Mindhunter so please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong)

And yes, it did work. Which is thought-provoking to me on numerous levels. The “notoriety” explanation just doesn’t seem to satisfy me. I know some people do believe very strongly that they did all this in part to put their names in lights but I really believe there is more to that particular element. Alas, too sleepy to explain myself. JMO.

 

[LoisLane]

Replying to my own post as I'm unsure about the court charges. If murder charges were stayed because they were deceased, not sure they'd charge again Oct 17th. So maybe that's not it. Hhhmm...

It’s the same file number so maybe just a wrap up? I see it has a room number assigned if that means anything.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It definitely is uncommon to commit suicide over prison. Which is one reason I think we need to be careful about applying statistics. If we apply statistics, we could argue they didn't commit suicide, because murderous duos rarely do. Furthermore, many of them cooperate with authorities in order to take the death penalty off the table.

Spree killers commonly do commit suicide though. In fact I posted an interview a few days ago that the news did during the manhunt, interviewing a sociology professor about spree killers, and he said spree killings are "often a precursor to suicide." As in, the suicide is kind of the whole point. He said that two weeks before their bodies were found, too.

So this is a fairly unique case, although of course it brings to mind Columbine. Been reading up on that case. Very interesting psychological assessments out there.

I think there are so many similarities between this case and Columbine on a psychological level. Although Kam and Bryer were much less intelligent. But I see similarities between Bryer and Eric for sure, right down to wanting to join the military and making overt suicide threats (Eric staged a fake suicide to freak out a girl who rejected him, while Bryer talked graphically about shooting himself and posted a picture on Instagram with his Airsoft gun in his mouth). And I suspect Kam had some similarities to Dylan and that his main impetus of rage was feeling overlooked and unappreciated. Plus they had the notoriety thing, possible delusions of grandeur, and it's possible they were trying to create a new paradigm for teen mass killings.

Ed Kemper was a real... “special” guy. He did turn himself in because IIRC the fear of being caught became too much for him. He gave in not because of guilt, but fear of a bad thing happening — so he took his fate into his own hands, which to me, flows in the same vein as suicide — except Ed wasn’t particularly suicidal as far as I know. Anyway.

(DISCLAIMER: all my knowledge of Ed Kemper comes from Mindhunter so please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong)

Interesting. My only knowledge of him comes from that terrifying interview he did (it's on Youtube). But yeah...definitely a "special" guy for sure...that's one way to describe it....

And yes, it did work. Which is thought-provoking to me on numerous levels. The “notoriety” explanation just doesn’t seem to satisfy me. I know some people do believe very strongly that they did all this in part to put their names in lights but I really believe there is more to that particular element. Alas, too sleepy to explain myself. JMO.

More to that particular element in what way?

 

[Optics]

I'm curious as to why you feel its not possible that it says Schmegelsky?

After the purchase it sounds like it was all for one and one for all with the perps. With all of that driving, what else did BS have to do? He easily could have spent the time scratching his name into the gun. For all that, it could say McLeod on the other side.

I'm not challenging you personally. I simply think that it could still say 'Schmegelsky' in spite of KM having purchased it early on.

I looked, enhance, etc etc.....I don't see any clear indication that it's his name ....That specific gun was the one Kam bought, so there is no logical reason for him to scratch his name. But, also the letters don't seem to line up to his name spelling. I feel we like to think that's what is scratched on there, but I just think the RCMP would have released that information to the public in their report.

 

[Optics]

Yes, if they hated their lives so much, why not just take yourselves out in total dramatic fashion ... instead of also taking with you 3 innocents who actually valued life and tried to live it to the fullest. But this happens time and time again, unfortunately. IMO

IMHO I think it was their egos - it's not 'history' for them to have taken themselves out, I think they need more to their story - to create 'history' that would be remembered. Unfortunately that's what they succeeded in - forever engraving their names in history as cold callous unremorseful killers.

 

[NJSleuth91]

IMHO I think it was their egos - it's not 'history' for them to have taken themselves out, I think they need more to their story - to create 'history' that would be remembered. Unfortunately that's what they succeeded in - forever engraving their names in history as cold callous unremorseful killers.

I wonder how long this case will really be remembered by the general public though.

I definitely think this is the only way they could think of to make their lives have some sort of "meaning" or significance and to live up to the ideals that they valued (ie. they were "armed and dangerous members of a militia" instead of two dorky gamer teenagers). They probably felt overlooked in general.

And also maybe to make the world feel the pain, rage, and hopelessness that they felt. Like, Bryer posted the gun in mouth picture and nobody seemed to care. Now everyone cares.