CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #5

[Gina20]

Violence has long been a lesser-known part of the history of the north, but I am sure every member of the RCMP has learned about this, and is hoping to avoid a repeat:

Albert Johnson (criminal) - Wikipedia

 

[Satchie]

I think this is highly probable. PR 280 has a reputation for being among the worst roads in the province. A Toyota Rav4 is not an appropriate vehicle for that road, most people who drive the road regularly would do so in a more rugged truck with two spare wheels. Some sections have improved as Manitoba Hydro invests in reconstructing the road to facilitate more construction traffic, however I wouldn't be surprised if the suspects don't even know how to change a tire. They may have had a flat, a breakdown, or simply ran out of fuel and had no choice but to abandon the vehicle and proceed on foot.

But I think it's too coincidental that they abandoned the vehicle, literally at the end of the road.

 

[PingTheRouter]

Without shelter or the right clothing, over time 10°C/50°F plus rain = hypothermia.

lots of moisture within the air yesterday as well with low dew points, very bad possibly the worst conditions for hypothermia
but we don't know what they are wearing or have access to

 

[MistyWaters]

I think this is highly probable. PR 280 has a reputation for being among the worst roads in the province. A Toyota Rav4 is not an appropriate vehicle for that road, most people who drive the road regularly would do so in a more rugged truck with two spare wheels. Some sections have improved as Manitoba Hydro invests in reconstructing the road to facilitate more construction traffic, however I wouldn't be surprised if the suspects don't even know how to change a tire. They may have had a flat, a breakdown, or simply ran out of fuel and had no choice but to abandon the vehicle and proceed on foot.

Good points. They may not have been successful in finding another potential victim/vehicle by the time the RAV4 ran out of the $20 worth of gas especially if they continued down the dead end road north beyond Gillam. The only option would be for them to turn around. I’m stuck on the idea these two did not have unlimited cash and any access to stolen credit or debit cards ran out and they just drove blindly, not having a clue where the road was taking them.

It’s impossible to imagine how “remote” remote really is, until one has been there. These two were by no means worldly and video games are a far cry from reality.

 

[afitzy]

Was watching CNN Intl. shortly ago and in passing one of the commentators asked if escape via the Nelson River could have been possible. Hadn't thought this was possible but did a quick search. Thought it was an interesting question and one not discussed so far here so far as I could tell. Wonder if the 2 perps have any water navigational skills? Water escape could certainly fall in the category of creative and daring by video gaming standards perhaps too?

How to Paddle the Nelson River to Hudson Bay

Quote from article:
"The Nelson River flows 400 miles from Lake Winnipeg to Hudson Bay through the Canadian province of Manitoba. A veteran traveler who paddles an average of 20 miles per day can expect to take as long as three weeks to make the trip, depending on weather and the river conditions. The northernmost part of the river flows through a series of lakes, including Cross Lake and Sipiwesk Lake. Waterfalls and rapids connect the lakes, adding layers of difficulty and making the trip suitable only for the experienced. North of Split Lake, the Grass and Burntwood tributaries join the Nelson as it courses through lush forested lowland toward its mouth at Hudson Bay, where it flows past the ghost town of Port Nelson".

 

[Seattle1]

Ignoring the bias introduced by media the knife could have been purchased simply because they had planned on going up in the Yukon to find work. If they didn’t have their PAL they wouldn’t legally have been able to pack a rifle/ammo. A knife could have been a second option to have on oneself while being out in a remote territory.

If I recall correctly, the storekeeper said he could not confirm the identity of the youth that purchased knives from him, and that he did not have surveillance video. He would only confirm that he purchased the inventory of store that went out of business that the suspects were said to frequent. MOO

 

[Herat]

These two spent a lot of time setting up this elaborate trip and project.

We know they were dedicated to being "survialists" and gaming some ruthless games where only one person can be the winner through their survival skills and their lack of morals.

I think they have spend a very long time setting up this survivalist fantasy:

So think like a survivalist: Be prepared, and leave No Trace

Leaving their tower computer to burn in the pickup/camper tells me they had a lot of information on there that had to be destroyed and not available to anyone. So that was planned.

I am sure they bought burner phones in Port Alberni to take with them, maybe several. If they are going to escape without a trace, they can't have traceable phones pining. I'm actually more sure about this as I think this through.

They also must have secured weapons and ammo in Port Alberni. These are the essentials of a survivalist. Best to do this in a place where you can do it in an organized fashion and I have to think where better to do this than in your own area and the back channels you know about.

Money ? Has to be untraceable cash. They might have slipped up on this, perhaps, if they used any of the victim's cards, but I think cash only would have been the plan.

And I think their general route and destination was planned. As the FBI analyst said, there is a tremendous amount of planning that goes on before an episode like this, but not so much in the follow-through when undetermined situations arise.

Maybe they did intend to get to Churchill. If you aren't paying attention, you can easily mistake the railroad line from Gillam to Churchill as a road on a Google map. And as they drove more dirt roads farther and farther to the east, it must have seemed a good choice. Note that they did ditch the vehicle very close to the VIA Rail line to Churchill.

I think they planned this all very very heavily. And have had at least some ability to monitor LE and the news.

But this adventure is no fun unless you can impress your friends and enemies. Impress them at your real-life game skills. So maybe there are some gamers out there, some net-confidants that know about some of their plans and have been getting updates. I think that has to be part of the plan.

The more I think about it, the more I belive they made a great many plans for this and some have come through. If you think of the model of an internet-survival game, you can watch them tick off the boxes as they go....

MOO

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Was watching CNN Intl. shortly ago and in passing one of the commentators asked if escape via the Nelson River could have been possible. Hadn't thought this was possible but did a quick search. Thought it was an interesting question and one not discussed so far here so far as I could tell. Wonder if the 2 perps have any water navigational skills? Water escape could certainly fall in the category of creative and daring by video gaming standards perhaps too?

How to Paddle the Nelson River to Hudson Bay

I posted about the possibility of following the Nelson shore earlier today. It’s a better alternative than simply marching into the woods with no map. There is no reason to believe that they have a canoe, or even know how to use one, but they could walk, and try to stay far enough from the shore to try to escape being spotted.

To me, it would make more sense to go southwest than northeast to Churchill.

There are some aboriginal communities on the way. I’ve been to Norway House via float plane. They would stick out like a sore thumb, and probably be recognised immediately.

 

[MassGuy]

These two spent a lot of time setting up this elaborate trip and project.

We know they were dedicated to being "survialists" and gaming some ruthless games where only one person can be the winner through their survival skills and their lack of morals.

I think they have spend a very long time setting up this survivalist fantasy:

So think like a survivalist: Be prepared, and leave No Trace

Leaving their tower computer to burn in the pickup/camper tells me they had a lot of information on there that had to be destroyed and not available to anyone. So that was planned.

I am sure they bought burner phones in Port Alberni to take with them, maybe several. If they are going to escape without a trace, they can't have traceable phones pining. I'm actually more sure about this as I think this through.

They also must have secured weapons and ammo in Port Alberni. These are the essentials of a survivalist. Best to do this in a place where you can do it in an organized fashion and I have to think where better to do this than in your own area and the back channels you know about.

Money ? Has to be untraceable cash. They might have slipped up on this, perhaps, if they used any of the victim's cards, but I think cash only would have been the plan.

And I think their general route and destination was planned. As the FBI analyst said, there is a tremendous amount of planning that goes on before an episode like this, but not so much in the follow-through when undetermined situations arise.

Maybe they did intend to get to Churchill. If you aren't paying attention, you can easily mistake the railroad line from Gillam to Churchill as a road. And as they drove more dirt roads farther and farther to the east, it must have seemed a good choice. Note that they did ditch the vehicle very close to the VIA Rail line to Churchill.

I think they planned this all very very heavily. And have had at least some ability to monitor LE and the news.

But this adventure is no fun unless you can impress your friends and enemies. Impress them at your real-life game skills. So maybe there are some gamers out there, some net-confidants that know about some of their plans and have been getting updates. I think that has to be part of the plan.

The more I think about it, the more I belive they made a great many plans for this and some have come through. If you think of the model of an internet-survival game, you can watch them tick off the boxes as they go....

MOO

“The best-laid plans of mice and men.”

I agree. I think they planned this out for a long time. They had a fantasy of what they were going to do and where they were going to go.

Unfortunately for them, fantasy is one thing, but reality is another thing entirely.

I’m sure they are now realizing the brutal reality of their situation.

I hope they are miserable, if they are still living.

 

[1987]

So, help me out here. The two suspects left British Columbia driving a white truck, right? It appears they would have had money at that point. Money, ID and credit cards may be missing from victims' van (only her passport is found). Van is burned, but searchable. Victims are found on the ground outside.

Then, white truck is found burned, many km from van, is that correct? Was the white truck also on a road or nearby a road?

Where do they first encounter Prof Dyck, approximately? They take his RAV4, but when they abandon and burn it, they don't take all his camping equipment.

There's a frenzied tone to all of this, of course, with strong suggestion of purely opportunistic targets, rapidity, etc.

LE has not, to my knowledge, said whether they got money from Prof Dyck.

The taking of money (and leaving of camping equipment) may be a big clue. The fact that they took their main computer(s) with them is troubling, I hope LE can recover something from that tower.

one of us is badly lost.

I thought it was a two tone red and grey dodge truck with a camper on it that they left in. the only damage to couples van is it was stalled and now has a broken window. the truck with camper was burnt.

 

[3blue1pink]

Well for one thing, we don’t know if the pair allegedly spotted LF and CD outside the van or if they were inside the van sleeping. But just in itself, an a ‘80s older van with Alberta licence plates could give the appearance of young people on an adventurer who probably aren’t armed. An possible easier target for robbery.

On the other hand the van doesn’t exactly scream out the occupants were loaded with cash. So I wonder if hoping to rob the occupants of drugs or alcohol was involved in the initial motive. As the families believed the suspects were heading to Whitehorse to seek employment as opposed to a joytrip or vacation, I doubt the two were flush with unlimited funds beyond a direct trip there.

Good point ! And it got me thinking about an article I read this very morning about the glamorization of #vanlife ... a big movement with millennials now . Basically they vlog their way around the country and post it on Instagram . I wonder if Chynna and Lucas did this ? It would make it easy to know where they were if one were on Instagram . Making the stalking theory easier to believe IMO Why #VanLife isn't as perfect as you might think — CNN

 

[NorthernWild]

Can anyone in the northern MB area in question confirm whether any mobile service (other than sat phone) is available or not? I know it’s non-existent outside a few larger towns in northern BC and Yukon, but am not familiar with northern MB.

I’m doubting mobile phones would give them any communication with the outside world up there (could be useful as GPS with offline maps and charging source), but maybe service is available.

 

[LovesPeace2]

Can anyone in the northern MB area in question confirm whether any mobile service (other than sat phone) is available or not? I know it’s non-existent outside a few larger towns in northern BC and Yukon, but am not familiar with northern MB.

I’m doubting mobile phones would give them any communication with the outside world up there (could be useful as GPS with offline maps and charging source), but maybe service is available.

There's coverage around the towns and in certain areas and reservations .but in the bush not so much but it all depends on location.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Can anyone in the northern MB area in question confirm whether any mobile service (other than sat phone) is available or not? I know it’s non-existent outside a few larger towns in northern BC and Yukon, but am not familiar with northern MB.

I’m doubting mobile phones would give them any communication with the outside world up there (could be useful as GPS with offline maps and charging source), but maybe service is available.

It was confirmed on here with a link on previous threads that there is wifi/cell service in Gillam. Out in the rugged terrain, I highly doubt it.

 

[Hatfield]

lots of moisture within the air yesterday as well with low dew points, very bad possibly the worst conditions for hypothermia
but we don't know what they are wearing or have access to

Sorry to hear they have not been caught yet. Hoping that will come soon.

Wanted to dispel something I read earlier about search dogs not being able to smell good in wet weather. Im going to list this as JMO because I can only state this based on having a Brittany Spaniel once that had an excellent nose and I watched him work many times.

JMO
When its misty out or foggy out or dew on the ground or even a very light rain, that actually seems to help dogs smell really good. Even better than when its hot and dry.

The important part of this is I am not talking a downpour rain or anything. Im only talking about misty, foggy, very light rain.

My dog used to go balistic with his nose during days like that. I did have a SAR person confirm this once on a comment so I feel very confident in this but JMO of course.

Just wanted to share this as misty weather may be a really good thing for LE using their search dogs.

 

[Justatheory]

I posted about the possibility of following the Nelson shore earlier today. It’s a better alternative than simply marching into the woods with no map. There is no reason to believe that they have a boat, but they could walk, and try to stay far enough from the shore to try to escape being spotted.

To me, it would make more sense to go southwest than northeast to Churchill.

There are some aboriginal communities on the way. I’ve been to Norway House via float plane. They would stick out like a sore thumb, and probably be recognised immediately.

The thing is, they have demonstrated a recurring determination to travel north, for whatever reason. They are following their own logic (or illogic, as the case may be), not ours. One of the challengers for law enforcement is trying to get into their heads, to think like they do. I'm not saying it's easy.

 

[Gina20]

Survivalist: This isn’t the Cook Islands

CTV News + video: 'This is not the Cook Islands': Les Stroud says B.C. murder suspects' chance of survival depends on skill

If you've ever been on a hunter training survival camp, you soon learn that there isn't a lot of food out there, and it can be hard to find. Yes, berries and fish are there to be had, for now.

Who owned the camper? One of those two may have lots of outdoor experience hunting and fishing. This is what people do on Vancouver Island in small communities. How many have a deer in the freezer for meat over the winter? We know nothing about one of them. Hunting and fishing are skills people learn from their families when they're growing up.

 

[Seattle1]

Key moments in the manhunt for two suspected B.C. killers

Friday, July 12

- Kam McLeod, 19, and Bryer Schmegelsky, 18, leave their home town of Port Alberni, B.C., with a plan to look for work in Whitehorse, according to media reports quoting Schmegelsky’s grandmother.


Saturday, July 13

- Video shows Australian Lucas Fowler, 23, and American Chynna Deese, 24, stopping at a gas station in Fort Nelson, B.C. They arrive in Fowler’s blue 1986 Chevrolet van at 7:30 p.m. and depart at 7:47 p.m.


Sunday, July 14

- According to media reports, Fowler and Deese are spotted on the side of the road with a broken-down van. Witnesses report seeing a man speaking with Fowler on Highway 97 in the evening. He is described as Caucasian with darker skin and dark hair, possibly with a beard and/or glasses.


Monday, July 15

- B.C. RCMP find Fowler and Deese’s bodies near their van along the Alaska Highway about 20 km south of Liard Hot Springs, near the B.C.-Yukon boundary.


Thursday, July 18

- McLeod and Schmegelsky are spotted in Dease Lake at about 3:15 p.m. They are driving a red and grey Dodge pickup truck with a sleeping camper.


Friday, July 19

- RCMP confirm they are investigating Fowler and Deese's deaths as a double homicide. Fowler’s father, an Australian police investigator, says the family is headed to B.C. to bring his son’s body home.

- RCMP respond to a call about a truck on fire on Highway 37 — seven-hours away from the double homicide and 50 kms south of Dease Lake. Police find an unidentified man’s body two kms from the burned vehicle.


Saturday, July 20

- RCMP say there is no indication the third body is connected to the deaths of Fowler and Deese.


Sunday, July 21

- RCMP say the burning truck was the same one last seen being driven by McLeod and Schmegelsky, who they describe as missing.

- McLeod and Schmegelsky are seen driving a grey 2011 Toyota RAV4 in the northern Saskatchewan town of Meadow Lake, about 300 km northwest of Saskatoon.


Monday, July 22

- RCMP confirm that Fowler and Deese were shot to death and release a sketch of the man police said spoke to Fowler on July 14.

- A burned-out vehicle is reported in the area of Gillam, a tiny northern Manitoba town about 1,000 km northeast of Winnipeg.


Tuesday, July 23

- RCMP say McLeod and Schmegelsky are now considered suspects in the deaths of Fowler, Deese and the third unidentified victim. Mounties launch a nationwide manhunt for the pair, saying they are “considered dangerous.”

- There is a possible sighting of the two in the Gillam area, according to RCMP.


Wednesday, July 24

- RCMP confirm the burned-out vehicle found in Gillam Monday was the Toyota RAV4 McLeod and Schmegelsky had been seen driving. Mounties say they’ve set up a check stop on the road leading into the town.

- Schmegelsky’s father says he believes his son will not survive a potential confrontation with police. McLeod’s father releases a statement describing his son as kind and considerate.

- The third victim is identified as Len Dyck of Vancouver. His family issues a statement describing him as a loving husband and father. Mounties charge McLeod and Schmegelsky with second-degree murder in connection to Dyck’s death.


Thursday, July 25

- Gillam residents say they are on edge as RCMP search their town, with one saying people are “sleeping with their guns close.” RCMP say there were two confirmed sightings of the suspects in the town and they believe McLeod and Schmegelsky are still in or near the area.

Police search B.C. homes of teens wanted in nationwide manhunt | The Star

 

[turbotwo]

Was watching CNN Intl. shortly ago and in passing one of the commentators asked if escape via the Nelson River could have been possible. Hadn't thought this was possible but did a quick search. Thought it was an interesting question and one not discussed so far here so far as I could tell. Wonder if the 2 perps have any water navigational skills? Water escape could certainly fall in the category of creative and daring by video gaming standards perhaps too?

How to Paddle the Nelson River to Hudson Bay

Quote from article:
"The Nelson River flows 400 miles from Lake Winnipeg to Hudson Bay through the Canadian province of Manitoba. A veteran traveler who paddles an average of 20 miles per day can expect to take as long as three weeks to make the trip, depending on weather and the river conditions. The northernmost part of the river flows through a series of lakes, including Cross Lake and Sipiwesk Lake. Waterfalls and rapids connect the lakes, adding layers of difficulty and making the trip suitable only for the experienced. North of Split Lake, the Grass and Burntwood tributaries join the Nelson as it courses through lush forested lowland toward its mouth at Hudson Bay, where it flows past the ghost town of Port Nelson".

IMO that's no escape, that's just going further down a dead end, and one that's much more difficult to backtrack on. As has been mentioned, they would stick out like a sore thumb in any of the communities around there, and on the off chance they made it to the mouth at Hudson's Bay, they're in polar bear country with no hope of getting supplies, a vehicle, cell service, or assistance of any kind.

 

[sleuth3000]

I'm surprised no one is talking about this, has this line of thinking been shot down for one reason or another?

"
There are also unconfirmed reports the teens are travelling in a car with Manitoba number plates stolen from a Gillam man and speculation they may have even been involved in a suspected abduction and carjacking in Regina, Saskatchewan on Tuesday.

The carjacking took place 15 hours after the Rav4 was found ditched at Gillam — which is a 13 1/2 hour drive from Regina.

“Officers were sent to a parking lot in the 400 block of Albert Street where a person had been abducted at gunpoint just after noon,” Regina Police said in a statement.

“A vehicle pulled into the parking lot followed by a small black car. A person got out of the black car with what appeared to be a gun and pointed it at the driver of the first car.

“The driver was forced into the black car with the suspect. Both cars then drove away. No shots were fired. A black car or smaller SUV with four doors and a roof rack was involved in this incident.”

Only one of the teens, McLeod, can reportedly drive but a scenario involving Schmegelsky forcing a motorist to drive at gunpoint with McLeod at the wheel of a second car is not beyond the realms of possibility.

An appeal has been made to the public for information regarding the vehicle, its owner or occupants and CCTV footage released.

“Police believe there are at least two suspects involved in this incident, which does not appear to be a random act ‘at this time’.”"

Mystery intensifies during hunt for highway murder suspects

Is this just australian media being irresponsibly speculative or is it possible they are not in gilliam after all?

EDIT: I know y'all are clamping down on rumors but this is all just parroted from the news story which I linked to above

My own speculation: possible they had a ride out from the rav in gilliam mans car, stole another in regina, and are much further away than folks are assuming?

 

[PingTheRouter]

JMO
When its misty out or foggy out or dew on the ground or even a very light rain, that actually seems to help dogs smell really good. Even better than when its hot and dry.

for what we call sitting water this is true for anything heavy its a detriment because it washes away the scent but if the reports of misty fog are true it should help