CANADA - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #7

[MistyWaters]

I would actually a place a bet on that information being wrong. RCMP has never confirmed that there were any shots.
They also absolutely would not fire their guns to communicate. I definitely agree with you on that. I personally believe the gun shots were just a rumor that got around.

Why wouldn’t the RCMP fire guns into the air if the community was locked down and it was their sole means of communicating their location to each other? Are you or anyone here aware of police protocol in that type of situation?

 

[otto]

Was hoping to wake up to see that they had been captured. But hopefully, it happens today with no more bloodshed.

At first I figured they are trapped on York Landing since I doubt they'd risk a ferry right now, and I'm sure those are being monitored. But someone mentioned they could have walked to York Landing through the bush, so I guess walking out is an option? Hopefully they have not gotten far.

The hydro/transmission line between Gillam and York Landing is one walking route option. They could also leave the area along the transmission line

 

[Estrojane]

It could have been a distraction, or a diversion. Why go out in daylight rummaging if you didn't want to be caught. They may have a plan in place and wanted to draw the attention there. It just doesn't make sense that both of them would be seen together in the daylight. It seems they should have gone to the dump at night, or have 1 gone, and another keep watch?

Starting to think the same thing. And wearing the same clothes as when last spotted across Split Lake??

I'm apprehensive that they are close to the Kettle power generating station(dam) for reasons I explained way back.

 

[ld1891]

The press there are operating under police approval and won't be publishing that detail. The residents now know not to post that information as well, and posts from the area have stopped. We are not in possession of any leaks from this isolated community.

Not really operating on 'police approval' - they have a right to report from anywhere in Canada. Most journalistic standards are simply to not needlessly endanger life of subjects.

 

[Herat]

I think they made a huge tactical error in heading to York Landing:

The only routes in are:

1. On the ferry to Split Lake
2. Out via plane or helicopter
3. On foot, having to backtrack the way they came in.

There are no roads for traffic this time of year (there is an ice road for use in winter when the ferry doesn't run, but it seems undriveable in summer)

They are essentially stuck on the corner of the riverside backing into thick brush with likely only a few trails well known to locals, and heavily used by bears.

If they had maps, they must have misread them as York Landing is not a good place they can move forward from. They can't live from the garbage dump for very long. They are risking hugely trying to steal from people's homes or the community facilites in YL. There is no way they are getting on that ferry unnoticed.

And this is why RCMP is taking some time to assemble a force there: The ferry only holds 8 vehicles, there may be only a small boat anchorage for an RCMP vessel, the airstrip might need some sprucing up to get anything other than a bush plane in there. Best to use helicopters. They are going to take some time and effort getting their large armored vehicles in there.

So best to send in the trackers, dogs, and sharpshooters at this point.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Unconfirmed reports began circulating on social media that the pair had been captured in a hail of gunfire, along with a video purportedly showing one of them being taken into custody.

But Royal Canadian Mounted Police Manitoba shut down those reports, stating no shots were fired and the fugitives remained at large.

Police warn locals to ‘stay inside and lock your doors’

 

[dyannaON]

Today’s the day! Made the man go to the office for the day. Gonna make my son do all my chores and I’m ready for the capture.
Again will mention cannot wait to hear all about it like we did with Garland and all the crazy action that went down during his capture and we had no clue! As much as I hate waiting it’s always a surprise.

<modsnip: off topic>

 

[Hatfield]

So I just read the article. Surprised that my comment stands as it was written. You don't use gunfire in the place of radios. So, unless the info is wrong - someone has done an oops and made a stupid command decision.

There is one possibility. If a search party member had gotten "lost" and separated from his other search party members then even if he had a radio to talk to others in his group its possible the others told him to stay where he is at and fire 1 shot so that the others can locate him and get him back with the group. Getting lost out there is easy to do and if the person didnt have a GPS or a compass to know how to get back to his search party members a two-way radio doesnt help much without some other way to regroup with the others.

There is one way to do it with radios only and that is by having the lost member walk in one direction all the while "keying" the Mic and the others can tell if the reception is getting better or worse. By trial and error of the lost person doing very short straight line walks to see how the reception gets can work to regroup the person. But it is somewhat difficult to use that method. And the risk of it is if the person walks out of total reception then you never can talk to the person again on the radio so it may not be the best method. A single shot by that person allows others in the group to key in on his location and walk to him instead.

 

[MNT]

Not really operating on 'police approval' - they have a right to report from anywhere in Canada. Most journalistic standards are simply to not needlessly endanger life of subjects.

I'm sure they're no beholden to, but the journalists posting on twitter that I'm reading are stating things like they have gone outside because police cleared them to do so, or that they won't publish where officers will exactly be.

Seems like arguing for arguing's sake.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Good weather in York Landing today; sunny and clear all day. Hoping this makes apprehension easier and quicker, with no loss of life on either side.
Hourly weather forecast for York’s Landing:
Hourly Weather Forecast for York Landing, Manitoba, Canada - The Weather Channel | Weather.com

 

[Estrojane]

I think they made a huge tactical error in heading to York Landing:

The only routes in are:

1. On the ferry to Split Lake
2. Out via plane or helicopter
3. On foot, having to backtrack the way they came in.

There are no roads for traffic this time of year (there is an ice road for use in winter when the ferry doesn't run, but it seems undriveable in summer)

They are essentially stuck on the corner of the riverside backing into thick brush with likely only a few trails well known to locals, and heavily used by bears.

If they had maps, they must have misread them as York Landing is not a good place they can move forward from. They can't live from the garbage dump for very long. They are risking hugely trying to steal from people's homes or the community facilites in YL. There is no way they are getting on that ferry unnoticed.

What if they have a canoe.

 

[MistyWaters]

The press there are operating under police approval and won't be publishing that detail. The residents now know not to post that information as well, and posts from the area have stopped. We are not in possession of any leaks from this isolated community.

Yes and if the whole community is in lockdown, reporters will not be out and about on the lookout for “breaking news”.

 

[CanadianMade]

Why wouldn’t the RCMP fire guns into the air if the community was locked down and it was their sole means of communicating their location to each other? Are you or anyone here aware of police protocol in that type of situation?

Because they are trained in other ways of communication aside from radios. I assure you it is not to whip out their guns and start shooting them in the air.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

I read the article. Here is the exact quote:
"...Mr. Bighetti said police radios weren’t working, so RCMP officers used gun fire as a means of communicating their location..."

Good to see that you’ve now read the article. Who is Mr. Bighetti? He is a member of this Bear Clan group who is not RCMP, indeed not even a peace officer. He is a civilian who is not from the area and who saying what he thinks is happening. Yesterday, the head of the Bear Clan group also talked about gunfire, and it is very unclear whether what he said about gunfire was actually true. It appears that he may have been talking through his hat. Indeed, see post #988 below.

Jumping from Mr. Bigetti’s opinion to statements that the reporter either doesn’t know what he’s talking about or the RCMP officers are unprofessional is quite a leap. <modsnip>

 

[ld1891]

I think they made a huge tactical error in heading to York Landing:

The only routes in are:

1. On the ferry to Split Lake
2. Out via plane or helicopter
3. On foot, having to backtrack the way they came in.

There are no roads for traffic this time of year (there is an ice road for use in winter when the ferry doesn't run, but it seems undriveable in summer)

They are essentially stuck on the corner of the riverside backing into thick brush with likely only a few trails well known to locals, and heavily used by bears.

If they had maps, they must have misread them as York Landing is not a good place they can move forward from. They can't live from the garbage dump for very long. They are risking hugely trying to steal from people's homes or the community facilites in YL. There is no way they are getting on that ferry unnoticed.

And this is why RCMP is taking some time to assemble a force there: The ferry only holds 8 vehicles, there may be only a small boat anchorage for an RCMP vessel, the airstrip might need some sprucing up to get anything other than a bush plane in there. Best to use helicopters. They are going to take some time and effort getting their large armored vehicles in there.


There are cut-lines that could take them back NORTH to Ilford, or southwest to Kelsey. While Kelsey has a river separating it, there appears to be a ford in a narrow stretch that would be cross-able. I'd hazard a guess they are freaking out trying to find a way to escape, and there are options - but difficult to find without sat photos (these would not be on a TOPO map).
So best to send in the trackers, dogs, and sharpshooters at this point.

 

[Jealoushe]

Canadians not having guns is a farce.

I think 80% of my co workers have guns in their house, many have mulitple. One has 17, another has 6.

This is a professional business type setting, guns are a hobby many Canadians enjoy, including hunting, or just target practice.

 

[Herat]

What if they have a canoe.

Oh, maybe they found the broken one left by the Germans ?

It was red. Easy to spot. I guess they would have to whittle up a set of paddles.

 

[ldlager]

I think they made a huge tactical error in heading to York Landing:

The only routes in are:

1. On the ferry to Split Lake
2. Out via plane or helicopter
3. On foot, having to backtrack the way they came in.

There are no roads for traffic this time of year (there is an ice road for use in winter when the ferry doesn't run, but it seems undriveable in summer)

They are essentially stuck on the corner of the riverside backing into thick brush with likely only a few trails well known to locals, and heavily used by bears.

If they had maps, they must have misread them as York Landing is not a good place they can move forward from. They can't live from the garbage dump for very long. They are risking hugely trying to steal from people's homes or the community facilites in YL. There is no way they are getting on that ferry unnoticed.

And this is why RCMP is taking some time to assemble a force there: The ferry only holds 8 vehicles, there may be only a small boat anchorage for an RCMP vessel, the airstrip might need some sprucing up to get anything other than a bush plane in there. Best to use helicopters. They are going to take some time and effort getting their large armored vehicles in there.

So best to send in the trackers, dogs, and sharpshooters at this point.

They may well have or steal a boat. If so, anything is possible.

 

[Gina20]

I was surprised to read about any part of Canada where ‘everyone has a gun’! It’s mostly OT anyway .... but at the outset of this crime spree, I had the assumption that the POIs likely didn’t have access to many guns. A Canadian community where ‘everyone has a gun’ therefore turned my head.

Def not looking to speculate about how Canadian gun owners use or view their weapons, especially if it’s going to spiral into attributing morally inferior views to US gun owners! Not here to judge anyone, just responding to the news. Thanks!

In remote communities, and communities along the Alaska Highway, many families rely on hunting to provide meat for the winter. This is why they own hunting rifles, or shotguns, and they know how to use them. These are not handguns or automatic weapons, but tools to provide food for families. Children grow up learning to hunt with their dads and moms.

There is nothing new about this, and it's not a sign of moral degeneracy. Communities from Vancouver Island to Newfoundland have always found food on the land. Deer and moose hunting is not something most city dwellers do, but it is done outside of the urban corridor.

Food is very expensive in the north. There is a movement to re-learn traditional hunting and gathering for land food in the northern First Nations communities. I've even read about greenhouses for school children to grow food in the summer. People who have extra food can contribute it to community freezers for those in need. Further north, communities store all their meat in communal meat lockers.

ETA:
It may well have been possible for the duo in question to have taken a shotgun or rifle and ammo stored in a gun cabinet in one of their family homes. If so, the RCMP would know by now, and they would know if either of the two had ever hunted with their families. The abundance of caution we see now may be for this reason.

 

[dotr]

I would actually place a bet on that information being wrong. RCMP has never confirmed that there were any shots.
They also absolutely would not fire their guns to communicate. I definitely agree with you on that. I personally believe the gun shots were just a rumor that got around.

Maybe somebody else fired shots? @ 0:28, speculation.
July 28 2019