Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #9

[10ofRods]

The sighting could not be confirmed, meaning it is not credible.

Is that how officials use language in Canada or is this just your usage?

Because many credible tips and sightings (in any crime) are unconfirmed. That usually means the tip or observation is written down in a report, but there is no other forensic evidence. Doesn’t mean that the tipster or observer is wrong, necessarily.

The tips in this case are probably not incredible.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

That is interesting.

What could they have been doing that made them get stuck in a field. Maybe just trying to pull off the main road to get some sleep or something. Or maybe that was the initial planned spot to burn the Rav4.

Would be nice to get that location on our pinned map that someone kindly shared yesterday. Not sure if we know the exact location of where they got stuck though.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

It also tells us they refused an opportunity to overpower the person helping them or, while he was distracted,take a nearly new truck, wallet and money inside.

Looked nervous but Felt confident enought to give real names?. Why? For later notoriety?

Eta. SP

 

[JudgeJudi]

I wouldn’t make that assumption at all. The charge for LD facilitates useful procedural stuff - the Canada-wide warrant being the most obvious. That accomplished, there is no need to rush on anything else.

I agree. If they apprehended them, they would immediately be charged with the murder of LD and locked up. Meanwhile the RCMP could take their time building their case for the other two murders.

 

[Zella]

There have been a couple of comments criticising the fact that the RCMP did not publicly name the victims right away. This turns out to be an issue on which police forces vary in their practice.

Since 2015, the RCMP have not routinely released the names of people who have died in car crashes, murders, drownings, etc., and of course they can’t in any event until they have figured out who the victim is, and they wait until they have notified relatives.

They are applying tests in the Canadian Federal Privacy Act, under which they will disclose the names of people who have died only if one of three criteria is satisfied:

• The information is already publicly available.
• Disclosure is necessary to further an investigation.
• In the opinion of the institution [RCMP] public interest in disclosure clearly outweighs any invasion of privacy that could result from the disclosure, or disclosure would clearly benefit the individual to whom the information relates.

In this case, it’s unclear when identification/notification happened. We do know that Australian authorities released the name of Lucas Fowler, obviously based on information provided by the RCMP, before the RCMP did.

I'm not sure that I've seen criticism of the RCMP for not naming the victims sooner. Most of what I have seen is criticism of how long it took them to directly state people had been murdered on that road as a warning/head's up to other travelers. I would think the specific identity of the victims was of less concern for the safety of the general public than the general knowledge there had been a violent homicide.

If people are criticizing the RCMP for not releasing the names sooner, that strikes me as a misguided complaint. The complaint about them not confirming it was a homicide for a few days strikes me as a much more valid concern.

MOO

 

[JudgeJudi]

Not much opportunity to bag a moose for the winter for the family, in fact none, and not much winter. And no bears, just crocs, snakes, goannas and spiders.

Don't forget the sharks.

 

[Gina20]

Nope you don’t need ids to get on their just pay for a ticket

Thank you. Well, another way out.

 

[MistyWaters]

Interview with guy in Cold Lake who helped them with the Rav4

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

Driving into a muddy field and getting stuck, passing through a reserve check stop without stopping - two incidents that we know of to indicate mistakes in judgement. A third could be ending up on a road in northern Manitoba that leads to a dead end.

Only a theory, they drowned while attempting to cross Nelson River. The Fox Lake Cree Reserve where the RAV4 was found on the Monday appears to be in the north side of Nelson River about 56 km (appx 35 miles) NE, up the road from Gillam. High chance the RAV4 with its low undercarriage broke down on rough, potholed roads. South is the only possible direction they could head on foot, having to cross the Nelson River at some point.

By the Tuesday word was out they wanted suspects and walking down the road to get to the bridge would’ve been out of the question. If they were walking anywhere near the road they surely noticed heightened police presence. The RCMP likely had officers posted at the bridge knowing it was the sole river crossing point.

Swimming across the frigid river would be challenging in itself but how would they deal with any provisions and survival supplies they’d taken with them? Strap them on, if so that’d be a fatal mistake.

The colder the water, the longer it takes for the body of a drowning victim to surface, could take weeks. JMO

 

[Deleted member 248860]

I find it strange that there have not been more confirmed sightings of the two at this point, given their notoriety.

They are either dead or holed up somewhere with sufficient supplies that they don’t have to surface in public. Every day that passes makes it more likely that they are dead.

 

[otto]

Is that how officials use language in Canada or is this just your usage?

Because many credible tips and sightings (in any crime) are unconfirmed. That usually means the tip or observation is written down in a report, but there is no other forensic evidence. Doesn’t mean that the tipster or observer is wrong, necessarily.

The tips in this case are probably not incredible.

What was it that RCMP said again? The sighting could not be confirmed? Something along those lines. I saw a UFO last night, I called RCMP, the sighting could not be confirmed.

Does that mean that there was a UFO and police are too stupid to figure it out, or does it mean that it didn't happen?

 

[10ofRods]

I agree. And further to this and a previous discussion about why only 2nd degree charge for the arrest warrant, if I may...I wanted to chime in earlier, but it takes me an hour to drive to work and you all keep typing so whole new threads rise and fall before I get a chance. So my 2 cents (CDN) (3.7 cents US):

The guy in the office next to me at work is a former criminal defense attorney, so I asked him about the warrant and charges, etc. Like I and several others have said here before, an arrest warrant opens up investigative powers for immediate use that aren't necessarily available when only engaging suspects.

When the lawyers went before the judge or jp to get that warrant, the evidence at the time clearly supported the 2nd degree charges. It doesn't mean LE can't change the charges down the road when an arrest is made or further evidence is brought forward.

What my guy said as a defense attorney is that there is a very real danger when LE seeks more severe charges in the arrest warrant stage or exaggerates or perhaps emphasizes certain facts more strongly than could be warranted. Should an arrest happen, any competent defense attorney will look at the arrest warrant and if they see anything out of the norm or questionable, they will challenge the arrest and all evidence that arises from the arrest. He said this doesn't happen very often, but he himself has successfully argued such a motion.

Just food for thought. Please ignore if redundant at this point.

All very good points. Of course, in this case, the defense will point out that LE itself must have had some doubts about the murder charges for Lucas and Chynna, since they didn’t file them right away (and didn’t immediately warn the public that there was a general threat). The initial evidence didn’t point to B and K.

So, there needs to be a balance. Naturally in this case, 99% of the public already has them convicted, so it’ll be an uphill defense battle for sure.

 

[Gina20]

Don't forget the sharks.

Hey, we have Jane, the 521-pound great white in Halifax harbour. So kinda equal there.

 

[BearCatSafari]

Is that how officials use language in Canada or is this just your usage?

Because many credible tips and sightings (in any crime) are unconfirmed. That usually means the tip or observation is written down in a report, but there is no other forensic evidence. Doesn’t mean that the tipster or observer is wrong, necessarily.

The tips in this case are probably not incredible.

Canadian here, though I only speak for myself.

A credible tip is a tip that comes from a credible person. I.E. patrol member, mail carrier, business owner, whatever.. Basically not online rumours or some yahoo trying to get their 15 minutes of fame.

A verified tip or sighting is one that can be confirmed with evidence. I.E. a photo or film footage.

 

[10ofRods]

What was it that RCMP said again? The sighting could not be confirmed? Something along those lines. I saw a UFO last night, I called RCMP, the sighting could not be confirmed.

Does that mean that there was a UFO and police are too stupid to figure it out, or does it mean that it didn't happen?

Wow. As if UFO’s and humans are in the same category, empirically.

The Phoenix lights, while not a UFO, were still credible on the basis of reports.

Something jumped into our yard last night and made a big noise running across a tarp. Dogs went ballistic. Upon examination with flashlight and again this morning, we have no evidence that anything was there.

So you’re saying nothing jumped over the fence and onto the tarp? Both dogs reacting wildly (from a deep sleep) was just coincidence? Tarp made its own noise?

No...something or someone was at the dump. Three witnesses saw something. Mass hysteria? That requires some more investigation to determine, IMO.

 

[Castlinghigh]

I’ll try to locate this video when I have time - but what, pray tell, would the motivation be for making up a detailed sighting like this?

here you go
7NEWS Melbourne on Twitter

 

[LovesPeace2]

So who WERE the 2 thin tall young white men seen by Bear Clan at the dump, one wearing a camo jacket, rummaging through the dump (something locals apparently don’t do)? And then running into the woods when spotted, which also seems suspect?

Just because the RCMP couldn’t find the people sighted doesn’t mean the sighting wasn’t credible, IMO.

Rcmp don’t play well with others theirs a lot of mistrust between rcmp and bear clan and reserve police. AMC sent bear clan to these communities to help protect them because rcmp dont . It sucks rcmp didn’t listen to people when they said that those 2 wouldn’t stick around gillam .the road blocks should of been by Thompson and the pas the #6&#8 highways wôuld. Of been good to the only highway out.

 

[BearCatSafari]

I would like to mention, though I haven't seen it claimed here, some on social media are mentioning a Sudbury man helped these two suspects and now the rumour mill is in full swing.

The man comes from Sudbury originally but he is the man from the Cold Lake Alberta incident where he helped them get their vehicle unstuck.

The two suspects have not been seen, sighted, helped or anything otherwise in Sudbury Ontario.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1578494531849/

 

[dotr]

https://www.cbc.ca/1.5229822

Thanks, handy link.

(CBC News Graphics)

 

[Elley Mae]

Canada murder suspects were stopped by constables, let go before manhunt announced, official says

Canada murder suspects were stopped by constables, let go before manhunt announced, official says

Councilor Nathan Neckoway from the Tataskweyak Cree Nation told the news outlet the pair were stopped during a routine check for alcohol in the dry community near Split Lake --located about 150 miles from Gillam -- but were let go when authorities didn't find anything.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

I'm not sure that I've seen criticism of the RCMP for not naming the victims sooner. Most of what I have seen is criticism of how long it took them to directly state people had been murdered on that road as a warning/head's up to other travelers. I would think the specific identity of the victims was of less concern for the safety of the general public than the general knowledge there had been a violent homicide.

If people are criticizing the RCMP for not releasing the names sooner, that strikes me as a misguided complaint. The complaint about them not confirming it was a homicide for a few days strikes me as a much more valid concern.

MOO

People are being selective about the initial RCMP statement. It didn’t just say that the deaths were suspicious. It said that the “Major Crimes Unit” had been called in.

That paints a clear picture of the situation for anybody <modsnip: offensive to other>

 

[otto]

I'm not sure that I've seen criticism of the RCMP for not naming the victims sooner. Most of what I have seen is criticism of how long it took them to directly state people had been murdered on that road as a warning/head's up to other travelers. I would think the specific identity of the victims was of less concern for the safety of the general public than the general knowledge there had been a violent homicide.

If people are criticizing the RCMP for not releasing the names sooner, that strikes me as a misguided complaint. The complaint about them not confirming it was a homicide for a few days strikes me as a much more valid concern.

MOO

When RCMP didn't know anything about the victims, the vehicle, whether the victims were related to the vehicle, whether it was a domestic incident, or anything else, why would police announce that two people were murdered on the highway? Why should RCMP warn travellers about 2 murders that could be a local love triangle?

If their deaths were reported in the news on July 15 and Australian/USA next of kin learned about the deaths on the news, that would be a much bigger problem for RCMP. The criticism would be unending. Next of kin is not complaining that identification took 3 days because RCMP would have explained the difficulty in connecting the vehicle to the victims.

I do think the word "violent" has not been used by RCMP. They have said the two died of "gun violence" and Fowler's father stated that they were shot. RCMP followed protocol which was to identify the victims, notify next of kin, and broadcast the news that two tourists were homicide victims. That is enough to let everyone know that a dangerous person is on the lose.