Deceased/Not Found Canada - Lyle, 78, & Marie McCann, 77, Alberta, 5 July 2010 #2 *T. Vader guilty*

[Woodland]

This is not a good link so will continue looking. Firefighters and RCMP arrive at the scene of the burning motorhome - and ...

July 5: Around 7 p.m., firefighters respond to a call about a motorhome fire at the Minnow Lake campground near Edson, Alta. No bodies are found inside, but police discover the registration linking the RV to the McCanns. The SUV is not at the scene. Mounties phone the McCann home and officers later knock on the door but find nobody at the house.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/missing-couple-timeline-of-the-mccann-case-1.868963

Neither the firefighters or the RCMP pulled the registration papers from the burning motorhome - they arrived after it was burned.

 

[Woodland]

Another poor example -

He also testified that a bill of sale and registration document for the motorhome, which survived the fire, were found on the scene, and a licence plate that was registered to a one-ton truck and not the motorhome.

Paper from inside the motorhome did not survive intact.

What I did like about this summary though -

There was a moment of confusion as Crown prosecutor Jim Stewart asked the court clerk to retrieve a specific piece of evidence from among the dozens of bags left in the jurors' box, and after a five-minute search she came up empty handed.

Prosecutors soon realized the piece of evidence, in this case the beer can they say had Vader's DNA on it, was still in possession of another RCMP investigator outside the courtroom, who is himself expected to testify later in the trial.

Evidence that was so crucial to the case was out and about somewhere with an officer.

http://www.stalbertgazette.com/article/Lyle-McCanns-RV-was-his-pride-and-joy-son-says-20160316

 

[Woodland]

Court also heard from a former RCMP officer who attended the scene of a burned out truck near Lodgepole, Alta. – the same location where Vader’s associate D B testified earlier this week he had seen Vader remove electronics from a truck before torching it.
...
He found nothing of note around the scene, and although the vehicle was badly damaged he was ultimately able to get half of the licence plate number, and found a Ford F-350 had been reported stolen out of Carrot Creek, Alta.

http://www.stalbertgazette.com/arti...r-mishandling-McCann-motorhome-scene-20160505

Lodgepole is over an hours drive from Edson - roughly where the motorhome was burned. How did TV get it there and get back?

 

[otto]

So TV shot Lyle in the head outside of the SUV - a shot that went through his hat brim first but had no blood and brain matter from LM on it - then TV picked up the hat and put it in the SUV?

Why did TV put canned food from the motorhome in the SUV - canned food that blood spatter from MM on it?

Why would a meth addict looking for money do this? Also wondering why a meth addict looking for quick money, and nothing else according to most who speak, would go to the trouble of killing this couple and hiding both bodies - so well that they have never been found. Wouldn't a meth addict just take off after grabbing some money and buy drugs?

I don't get that.

How did the stolen white pick-up and the SUV end up so many miles away from the burn site? One person?

There was blood on the ball cap.

"Dahlstrom said he chemically tested a hole in the brim of the Boag’s Draught cap and concluded that it was consistent with a bullet that had entered the top of the brim and exited out the bottom.

Dahlstrom testified the cap would have had to have been close enough to the gun that fired the bullet for firearm discharge residue to have landed on it, however he said he was unable to say what that distance would have been.

He was also unable to say when the bullet hole could have occurred or what calibre the firearm involved was.

The trial has earlier heard that the cap had obvious blood spatter on the outside of it, which was sent to an RCMP lab for testing and was determined to belong to Lyle McCann."

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/cri...-that-cap-belonging-to-victim-had-bullet-hole

Didn't Vader's friend help him with the vehicles? He certainly witnessed when Vader burned the white truck.

 

[Woodland]

Article with picture of burned motorhome.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...-out-motorhome-ended-up-in-dumpster-1.3485699

 

[Slebby]

OK.
I'm TV.
I have unwittingly stumbled into a situation where I am under suspicion of murder.
All I did was stumble upon an SUV with a cell phone it in - or...a friend loaned me an SUV and I thought it was ok to drive it and help myself to the cell phone in it - or...some other innocent explanation....

Then I learn the owners of said SUV are missing and presumed murdered. Omg.

What do I do, to help myself, to help the family find their missing parents?
Clam up and never do anything to help?
Or spill the beans - I found the car at this location, on this date, and the phone was in it - or - my friend/associate (name) loaned me the vehicle and I assumed it was his. He loaned it to me on this date at this time and the SUV was at this location.

Personally -I'd help any way I can. That TV has offered no alternate explanation other than to say "I was framed, I didn't do it" - does not ring true for me.
DNA in beer can, steering wheel and arm rest of SUV belonging to missing and presumed dead seniors -oh, I can explain that. Gives explanation. No, he gives no explanation.

What does anyone have to gain by implicating TV?

Let's go back to the scene of the burned RV. The Real Killer burns the RV. Why not burn or disappear the SUV too? What does the Real Killer do instead? Find a TV beer can discard and plant it? Smear TV DNA on the steering wheel and arm rest of the SUV? How does the Real Killer compel TV to drive around in/shed DNA in the McC SUV?

Why doesn't TV say OMG - so-and-so gave me the keys to the SUV, I had no idea it was associated with a missing persons case. It's not such a difficult defence.

I am passionate about wrongful conviction. I hate injustice. If there as injustice here, I'd be passionate about clearing TV. The only injustice I see is a family denied the truth, denied the opportunity to lay their dead family members to rest. TV has done nothing to clear his own name, or explain the evidence.
IMO


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[Woodland]

On Friday court heard the 911 call about the motorhome fire came in around 7 p.m. on July 5.

C P testified he was driving north on Wolf Lake Road toward Minnow Lake when he saw thick black smoke, different from the smoke often coming from gas flares in that area.

When he came to the scene several hundred feet into a forestry cutline off Wolf Lake Road, he said he saw what he thought was a motorhome that was “fully involved” with flames.

“(The flames) were at least twice as high as the structure itself; almost as high as the tree tops,” Popielarz said.

He phoned 911 and went to the nearby campground, where he couldn't see the fire but could see the smoke, and said he heard “four or five” explosions.
...
Lonsberry said his department was dispatched at 7:17 p.m., arrived on scene at 7:57, left the scene at 9:21 and put the trucks back in service at 11:19.

When they arrived the motorhome was already mostly burned, but they put out the fire, conducted a search of the area for bystanders or anyone involved in the incident. They found none, and when they left, they turned the scene over to the RCMP.

It took the fire department 40 minutes to reach the fire.

http://www.stalbertgazette.com/article/No-remains-in-McCann-RV-experts-testify-20160312

 

[Woodland]

The bill of the cap was damaged by a bullet hole, but there was no blood found on the inside of the hat.

During cross-examination, Butler agreed that a defence theory was possible: the blood spatters could have been caused by someone sneezing or coughing in the direction of the hat.

Butler had some theories of his own as to why the blood was diluted. He thought the blood could have been mixed with water, rain or even cerebral fluid, perhaps caused by a gunshot to the head or blunt-force trauma.

Butler admitted he never included the cerebral fluid theory in his report or any of his notes. He didn't even tell the prosecutor about his theory until Sunday night.

The defence called the theory, "desperate, not scientific." He pointed out there was no other evidence of head trauma such as hair, bone or brain matter found on the food cans.

Beresh asked the RCMP expert, "Did you do any research on this?"

"Not particularly," Butler replied.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...tifies-about-blood-spatter-evidence-1.3552849

Article includes pic of hat.

 

[Slebby]

Oh, also, TV's DNA was found on LMcC's hat, that I did not know.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...-dna-expert-s-testimony-for-defence-1.3764696
So his DNA was on the hat, the beer can, the steering wheel and the arm rest of the murdered couple's SUV, which he tooled around in while using the murdered couple's cell to text his honey.

Waiting for the innocent explanation for all that, Mr. TV, how the police stitched you up a week or more later, when the McCs were missed by their daughter after failing to show up in Abbotsford, by retroactively texting your girlfriend to make you look like you had texted your girlfriend from the victims' cell.

I just can't get my head around a conspiracy.


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[Woodland]

On Aug. 16, 2010, Sgt. G G inspected the stolen gold Ford F-350 at the St. Albert RCMP detachment.

Goulet testified he walked around the vehicle and after a half-hour inspection he noticed a key in the back box of the truck.

“That key was a Hyundai key,” Goulet said. He told court he took the key to RCMP K Division in Edmonton where the McCanns’ SUV was being held.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2593414/lyle-and-marie-mccanns-suv-key-found-by-rcmp-in-stolen-truck/


On Monday afternoon, while Beresh was continuing his cross-examination of Young about his role in investigating the Ford F-350 and also the Hyundai Tucson SUV, he suggested Young had been looking for a key to the SUV on Aug. 30, 2011.

Young said he contacted investigators and was told no key was available.

"I was told I would have to get a key cut," he said.

http://www.stalbertgazette.com/article/Vader-evidence-on-trial-20160323

 

[Slebby]

The bill of the cap was damaged by a bullet hole, but there was no blood found on the inside of the hat.

During cross-examination, Butler agreed that a defence theory was possible: the blood spatters could have been caused by someone sneezing or coughing in the direction of the hat.

Butler had some theories of his own as to why the blood was diluted. He thought the blood could have been mixed with water, rain or even cerebral fluid, perhaps caused by a gunshot to the head or blunt-force trauma.

Butler admitted he never included the cerebral fluid theory in his report or any of his notes. He didn't even tell the prosecutor about his theory until Sunday night.

The defence called the theory, "desperate, not scientific." He pointed out there was no other evidence of head trauma such as hair, bone or brain matter found on the food cans.

Beresh asked the RCMP expert, "Did you do any research on this?"

"Not particularly," Butler replied.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...tifies-about-blood-spatter-evidence-1.3552849

Article includes pic of hat.

OMG, I did not know about MMcC's blood on food cans in the SUV TV was driving around in. With the beer can DNA, the steering wheel DNA, the arm rest DNA, and TV's DNA on LMcC's hat.

From your link:

Marie McCann's diluted blood was found on a number of food cans that were on the driver's side floor of the couple's Hyundai Tuscon. It's believed the cans were somewhere else when they were spattered with blood.

On Monday, an RCMP blood-pattern expert testified at the Travis Vader first-degree murder trial about what could have caused those stains.

Sgt. Adrian Butler concluded the stains on the hat "are consistent with force applied to a source of liquid blood, matched to Lyle McCann, dispersing blood droplets into the air and onto the hat."

In other words, Butler believed Lyle McCann was the victim of some sort of external force that caused him to bleed. He couldn't say if McCann was wearing the hat when he was subjected to force. Butler was also unable to conclude where the hat was when droplets of blood fell on it.

No blood inside the cap

The bill of the cap was damaged by a bullet hole, but there was no blood found on the inside of the hat.

Defence lawyer Brian Beresh asked, "If someone was wearing that cap and they were shot (in the head), the most obvious thing we'd expect to see is blood on the interior of the cap, right?"

Butler answered, "Not necessarily."

"You can have a bullet wound to your head with very little bleeding," he said. "If it was a small calibre, they tend to bounce around in a person's head."




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[Slebby]

On Aug. 16, 2010, Sgt. G G inspected the stolen gold Ford F-350 at the St. Albert RCMP detachment.

Goulet testified he walked around the vehicle and after a half-hour inspection he noticed a key in the back box of the truck.

“That key was a Hyundai key,” Goulet said. He told court he took the key to RCMP K Division in Edmonton where the McCanns’ SUV was being held.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2593414/lyle-and-marie-mccanns-suv-key-found-by-rcmp-in-stolen-truck/


On Monday afternoon, while Beresh was continuing his cross-examination of Young about his role in investigating the Ford F-350 and also the Hyundai Tucson SUV, he suggested Young had been looking for a key to the SUV on Aug. 30, 2011.

Young said he contacted investigators and was told no key was available.

"I was told I would have to get a key cut," he said.

http://www.stalbertgazette.com/article/Vader-evidence-on-trial-20160323

I think I already addressed this, or at least, you didn't respond to my treatment of this point - the Ford truck was initially examined only as a stolen truck investigation. Only later was it linked to TV and the MC case.

Have you never gone looking for something, not found it, then later looked harder and found it? The initial search was cursory, later, when associated with a murder, it would be a much more thorough search. My basic understanding of a vehicle search in a stolen vehicle case is to look for obvious drug paraphernalia (extremely common in car theft) and weapons. To find a key in a partially burned out stolen truck investigation turned murder investigation? Not surprising to me. Especially if the alternate theory is "some cop planted it". There is no evidence for suspecting a plant by a cop. IMO.


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[Woodland]

I think I already addressed this, or at least, you didn't respond to my treatment of this point - the Ford truck was initially examined only as a stolen truck investigation. Only later was it linked to TV and the MC case.

Have you never gone looking for something, not found it, then later looked harder and found it? The initial search was cursory, later, when associated with a murder, it would be a much more thorough search. My basic understanding of a vehicle search in a stolen vehicle case is to look for obvious drug paraphernalia (extremely common in car theft) and weapons. To find a key in a partially burned out stolen truck investigation turned murder investigation? Not surprising to me. Especially if the alternate theory is "some cop planted it". There is no evidence for suspecting a plant by a cop. IMO.


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My post was a response to your treatment of this point.

The key was suppose to have been found on 16 Aug 2010 - on 30 Aug 2010 there was no key and one had to be cut.

 

[Slebby]

My post was a response to your treatment of this point.

The key was suppose to have been found on 16 Aug 2010 - on 30 Aug 2010 there was no key and one had to be cut.

You are talking about 2 different officers - G and Y. If G from Major crimes had logged the key into evidence, could it be pulled out of evidence by Y if he wanted to start the SUV?
It seems Beresh had no issue with this. He was focussed on the time between the stolen Ford truck being found and the finding of the key, I assume to insinuate the key was planted in the truck to frame TV.

 

[Slebby]

Woodland, it would be helpful to understanding your focus on TV's innocence if you would kindly construct a scenario, including a timeline to illustrate how TV could have been framed by either cops or other perps. What is tv actually guilty of here? What did he do/not do (ex, drive the SUV? Harm the McCs? Have any contact whatsoever with the McCs? Steal their phones. Find their phone? Text his girlfriend? Someone else texted his girlfriend to frame him, who, why?)

Otherwise, it just seems you are being contrary.

Were you in the courtroom? What do you see that others (including a judge) don't?


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[Woodland]

You are talking about 2 different officers - G and Y. If G from Major crimes had logged the key into evidence, could it be pulled out of evidence by Y if he wanted to start the SUV?
It seems Beresh had no issue with this. He was focussed on the time between the stolen Ford truck being found and the finding of the key, I assume to insinuate the key was planted in the truck to frame TV.

I realize there are 2 different officers here - that's the point actually.

Officer GG claims to have found the McCann's key on 16 Aug 2010 in the stolen truck - but made no report about it. GG did mention other items found in the stolen truck.

There is nothing saying GG logged it into evidence.

On 30 Aug 2010 officer Y needs a key for the SUV - and there isn't one to be found. No record of one anywhere.

So I don't believe GG found a key in the stolen truck.

 

[Woodland]

Woodland, it would be helpful to understanding your focus on TV's innocence if you would kindly construct a scenario, including a timeline to illustrate how TV could have been framed by either cops or other perps. What is tv actually guilty of here? What did he do/not do (ex, drive the SUV? Harm the McCs? Have any contact whatsoever with the McCs? Steal their phones. Find their phone? Text his girlfriend? Someone else texted his girlfriend to frame him, who, why?)

Otherwise, it just seems you are being contrary.

Were you in the courtroom? What do you see that others (including a judge) don't?


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My focus is on evidence that doesn't add up - imo. If that's 'contrary' to the view of others - that's OK right?

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind - I'm voicing my opinion on what I see as a mess here, from top to bottom. With a fresh conviction - I'm not going to break TOS by naming someone I think is a better fit for carrying out this crime.

 

[Slebby]

I realize there are 2 different officers here - that's the point actually.

Officer GG claims to have found the McCann's key on 16 Aug 2010 in the stolen truck - but made no report about it. GG did mention other items found in the stolen truck.

There is nothing saying GG logged it into evidence.

On 30 Aug 2010 officer Y needs a key for the SUV - and there isn't one to be found. No record of one anywhere.

So I don't believe GG found a key in the stolen truck.

So what DO you believe, is what I'm asking...



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[Slebby]

My focus is on evidence that doesn't add up - imo. If that's 'contrary' to the view of others - that's OK right?

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind - I'm voicing my opinion on what I see as a mess here, from top to bottom. With a fresh conviction - I'm not going to break TOS by naming someone I think is a better fit for carrying out this crime.

Fair enough. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind either, only to understand their mind. Also, I am open to having my mind changed by something I find compelling.

I have sympathy for cops that are stretched thin. I see it in rural Alberta a lot. It pains me to see insinuations of misconduct or framing. Mistakes are not the same as misconduct or malice. Cops also do not have the freedom to defend themselves in the press the way private citizens can.

Also, it seems to me, whatever your theory, it requires more than one player (cops? Family members? TV's sketchy associates?) pulling strings together to frame TV, and that just does not ring true, especially over the timeline, from July 3rd until they were reported missing.
IMO


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[Woodland]

I believe there is someone behind this crime and two or more others that carried it out.

One guy didn't move all those vehicles imo. An addict looking for money would not have spent the time it took to dispose of 2 bodies - away from where the vehicles ended up - then burn all the vehicles. That's a lot of work for no gain.

Why not park the motorhome in the bush somewhere and use it to live in for a while? TV didn't have a home - he was on the run from other charges. Why not drive around in the SUV for a while - like he was doing with the stolen pick-up? Surely it was time to change stolen vehicles?

Why use the McCann phone, then use your own phone soon after to call the same person? That makes no sense at all - when he supposedly went to so much trouble to hide 2 bodies.

Why cover your tracks then leave bread crumbs that lead right to you? Because he's a meth addict doesn't make sense to me - if so why was he even covering any of his tracks?

Someone went to a great deal of trouble and there was a gain at some point. One year later to be exact.

All jmo.