CANADA Canada - Madison Scott, 20, Vanderhoof, BC, 27 May 2011

[Cedars]

Again I'm foggy so excuse my lack of details here...and this is just my hypothetical thoughts/questions:

I still find it strange that she would hold out and spend the night alone no matter how much a young woman loves the outdoors or feels comfortable with the area. If her friend changed mind at last minute, she still held out... why?

My friends and I attended lots of bush parties back in the day at rivers, down logging roads, in the forest, out of the town limits, etc. around that age... but even my most daring, adventurous and risk taking friends wouldn't crash alone in a tent after any type of party.

Only two things makes sense to me:

1. She was too tipsy to drive - but then she would call someone. She sounded quite candid and close with her family so easy to call to get picked up

2. She was waiting for someone. Texting in the tent the whole time, with almost all her attention on that at a party and preoccupied I think has to be connected. There is a reason the phone hasn't been found, someone had something to hide on the phone and not just pinging I think.

She could have been set up. Online baiting and set up, even by those who attended the party but might be too far fetched. All JMO, MOO

I was wondering, perhaps she'd gone to the party because her crush was going to be there. And, her mother says, Madison texted her that he'd very clearly rejected her. This must have been early on in the evening.

IMO, that can really poison the party for the rejected person. She may have had her hopes up, been excited, rejection suddenly deflates you. Altho Madison was beloved by girlfriends and brother, and a social butterfly, it's not been reported that she dated much. She was 'tomboyish', smart, not very sexy. Harder to attract immature guys. Plus, being smart, creative, I think she'd have been picky.

At that age, I would have left the party and gone home. But she couldn't leave because of Jordi, so maybe she stayed in her tent, because she was nursing some heartache. Then later, Jordi comes to say she's not going to stay after all. Plus, Jordi's hooking up with her own crush. Ouch!

A happy person has energy to respond to new situations. A person in a depressed mood is more likely to be just grumpy and stubborn. Sit in your tent and think, Why should I have to pack up and leave?

I don't know whether she was the kind of young woman who had a lot of guys available to hook up with, or whether that would have been her thing. It can lead to a lot of hurt, just feeling used.

However, she was apparently doing online dating. So, as you say, perhaps she was communicating with someone online - perhaps she was open to someone coming by.

However, where her remains were found, would make that less likely.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

Ok - so I assume Fro has told police who else was still there, besides Madison. I wonder whether he told them everyone else was gone? Or were they for some reason keeping track of everyone who had left, including Jodi?

I guess I'm a bit confused how anyone who was still there, partying in the dark, at that very late hour, would be paying close attention to who had just gone to bed, vs who had packed up and left. Typically, at a campground party, you're just interested in who's still sitting around the fire drinking, you're not keeping track of sleeping arrangements. You might think, for example, that someone was in the tent with Madison.

JMO

Just ETA my own comments, I guess I'm trying to get at what can be used as evidential proof that would be sufficient for arrest, that would stand up in court.

JMO

 

[BritishColumbianWoman]

Just ETA my own comments, I guess I'm trying to get at what can be used as evidential proof that would be sufficient for arrest, that would stand up in court.

JMO

Do we know what Maddy's relationship was like with the two boys who were last at the party? Do we know if she was friends with them at all?

 

[Tcri]

Just ETA my own comments, I guess I'm trying to get at what can be used as evidential proof that would be sufficient for arrest, that would stand up in court.

JMO

Fro spoke to Maddy
Also quoting Otto:

otto said:
That's a third panel in the parents' investigationthat includes

• Cam Black
• Cody Black

Another board says "Blacks last to leave."

Whoever was last to leave must have known that Madison was asleep in her tent next to the lake.

 

[whiterhino]

I was wondering, perhaps she'd gone to the party because her crush was going to be there. And, her mother says, Madison texted her that he'd very clearly rejected her. This must have been early on in the evening.

IMO, that can really poison the party for the rejected person. She may have had her hopes up, been excited, rejection suddenly deflates you. Altho Madison was beloved by girlfriends and brother, and a social butterfly, it's not been reported that she dated much. She was 'tomboyish', smart, not very sexy. Harder to attract immature guys. Plus, being smart, creative, I think she'd have been picky.

At that age, I would have left the party and gone home. But she couldn't leave because of Jordi, so maybe she stayed in her tent, because she was nursing some heartache. Then later, Jordi comes to say she's not going to stay after all. Plus, Jordi's hooking up with her own crush. Ouch!

A happy person has energy to respond to new situations. A person in a depressed mood is more likely to be just grumpy and stubborn. Sit in your tent and think, Why should I have to pack up and leave?

I don't know whether she was the kind of young woman who had a lot of guys available to hook up with, or whether that would have been her thing. It can lead to a lot of hurt, just feeling used.

However, she was apparently doing online dating. So, as you say, perhaps she was communicating with someone online - perhaps she was open to someone coming by.

However, where her remains were found, would make that less likely.

JMO

JMO I've always thought Madison might've hung around with the hopes of spending time with a crush or something along those lines. Is it possible that someone from Madisons online dating was at the party?

Do you mean Jordi was hooking up with someone Madison had a crush on? Or that Jordi was preoccupied with her own personal crush and ditched Madison?

JMO but whether Madison knew she was staying alone or not, I think she just figured her things were set up already and it was just one night. People knew where she was and her situation seemed generally, fairly safe and OK. (as much as I hate to admit, I might do the same and take the chance overnight even if it seems a bit spooky)

For me, it's the fact that someone knew she'd be alone there overnight. Someone took advantage of the situation IMHO. Thoughts are with Madisons family. She had a bright future and someone took it away from her

 

[Cedars]

Do you mean Jordi was hooking up with someone Madison had a crush on? Or that Jordi was preoccupied with her own personal crush and ditched Madison?

I know nothing about who Madison had a crush on - quite rightly, that has never been released. It's something that was significant enough to MS, that she included it in a text to her mother. I am just speculating that perhaps, it was what kept her in her tent rather than out in the party. I am just imagining, human nature, she might be irritated with Jordy for abandoning her to go off with her new guy.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

must have known

I will just comment, that from law enforcement and legal perspective, there is a world of difference between 'must have' and 'may have'.

The first is proveable beyond a reasonable doubt, the second is not.

JMO

 

[offgrid50]

Fro spoke to Maddy
Also quoting Otto:

otto said:
That's a third panel in the parents' investigationthat includes

• Cam Black
• Cody Black

Another board says "Blacks last to leave."

Whoever was last to leave must have known that Madison was asleep in her tent next to the lake.
View attachment 507915

It was, at the time, a favorite place for the Black's to be on the weekends.....even really late at night...good chance they didn't even know about the party until they stumbled upon it.

 

[offgrid50]

Do we know what Maddy's relationship was like with the two boys who were last at the party? Do we know if she was friends with them at all?

Although there were people at the party that knew locals at the party, i don't think the boys would have known who Maddy was. They did not go to school and did not work in town so that's why I say this....

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It was, at the time, a favorite place for the Black's to be on the weekends.....even really late at night...good chance they didn't even know about the party until they stumbled upon it.

Thanks so much for your insight! I want to ask so many questions but unsure what's allowed on here.

I'm curious about the consensus about their general character around town but that might be too much since we're only allowed to discuss POIs on here IIRC.

So let's see how I can question this - a favorite place for the Blacks to be even late at night... so I'm thinking either outdoor rec (fishing, camping?) and the party would've been an opportunity as opposed to plan to go? MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Although there were people at the party that knew locals at the party, i don't think the boys would have known who Maddy was. They did not go to school and did not work in town so that's why I say this....

They did not go to school at all (homeschooled previously or ?) or just not the same school as other kids around the vicinity? And if not working, curious what they did in their time. Not that it matters, just curious in general.

 

[offgrid50]

They did not go to school at all (homeschooled previously or ?) or just not the same school as other kids around the vicinity? And if not working, curious what they did in their time. Not that it matters, just curious in general.

They were not high school graduates, lets say that. One was working, one stayed home and did things at the farm fixing things etc.

 

[offgrid50]

Thanks so much for your insight! I want to ask so many questions but unsure what's allowed on here.

I'm curious about the consensus about their general character around town but that might be too much since we're only allowed to discuss POIs on here IIRC.

So let's see how I can question this - a favorite place for the Blacks to be even late at night... so I'm thinking either outdoor rec (fishing, camping?) and the party would've been an opportunity as opposed to plan to go? MOO

It wasn't out of the ordinary for people to show up late at your place and say "let's go for a ride", take the atv's and away you go, or vehicles.....winter was over, stars are out, a beer and a smoke and a long conversation about stuff.....that's just how it was.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It wasn't out of the ordinary for people to show up late at your place and say "let's go for a ride", take the atv's and away you go, or vehicles.....winter was over, stars are out, a beer and a smoke and a long conversation about stuff.....that's just how it was.

I should remember my youth more, we totally did that too. Let's go the lake/river or let's go to the bar lol... so sounds like a popular place to hang in general so nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[whiterhino]

It wasn't out of the ordinary for people to show up late at your place and say "let's go for a ride", take the atv's and away you go, or vehicles.....winter was over, stars are out, a beer and a smoke and a long conversation about stuff.....that's just how it was.

I could see this being "normal" esp in a rural setting. Probably as common as using a golf cart to get the mail in a large suburban neighborhood.

There's also really no other way to do it lol. That's the entire gist of it, right? Get into/onto your vehicle and tour around. In a rural area the houses are also often spread apart and the properties are large enough to where there's really no other way to get around, even if it isn't a hobby. JMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Hypothesizing:

It was mentioned this was a yearly party so a known hot spot/hang out. So of all the years, no one goes randomly missing except that year. So a crime of opportunity/perfect storm for someone to commit a crime?

Some things to note that stand out that may have differed from previous parties:

1. IIRC that year party was advertised publicly on Facebook and wasn't before (connected or not?)
2. Madison was vulnerable perhaps, being one of the last there on her own
3. Seems whoever killed her is local and knows the area because of the dump area. If this was just anybody, they could've dumped her in a lake (Hogsback or Sinkut) or off one of the many other roads that branch of Blackwater Rd before getting to the highway.

It is interesting the dump site looks to be one of the last roads to turn off before getting on the highway, however it is a dead end and private property IIRC.

Awfully risky and bold to go onto someone's private property (assuming a local would know it's PP) where hunting/guns, ATVs might be part of recreation life. It might've been light or getting light out as well, so of all the places in that wilderness area - that dump site is intriguing. JMO, MOO

Loading…

www.cbc.ca

Hogsback Lake to Vanderhoof

www.google.com

 

[offgrid50]

Hypothesizing:

It was mentioned this was a yearly party so a known hot spot/hang out. So of all the years, no one goes randomly missing except that year. So a crime of opportunity/perfect storm for someone to commit a crime?

Some things to note that stand out that may have differed from previous parties:

1. IIRC that year party was advertised publicly on Facebook and wasn't before (connected or not?)
2. Madison was vulnerable perhaps, being one of the last there on her own
3. Seems whoever killed her is local and knows the area because of the dump area. If this was just anybody, they could've dumped her in a lake (Hogsback or Sinkut) or off one of the many other roads that branch of Blackwater Rd before getting to the highway.

It is interesting the dump site looks to be one of the last roads to turn off before getting on the highway, however it is a dead end and private property IIRC.

Awfully risky and bold to go onto someone's private property (assuming a local would know it's PP) where hunting/guns, ATVs might be part of recreation life. It might've been light or getting light out as well, so of all the places in that wilderness area - that dump site is intriguing. JMO, MOO

Loading…

www.cbc.ca

Hogsback Lake to Vanderhoof

www.google.com

View attachment 508386

A body just doesn't end up on your property out here. These boys were always up at night, especially on a weekend, they had dogs and never had visitors. One would have covered up for the other or helped the other out....they're brothers and close at that. Their father was long haul at the time and was rarely home.

 

[Tcri]

I know nothing about who Madison had a crush on - quite rightly, that has never been released. It's something that was significant enough to MS, that she included it in a text to her mother. I am just speculating that perhaps, it was what kept her in her tent rather than out in the party. I am just imagining, human nature, she might be irritated with Jordy for abandoning her to go off with her new guy.

JMO

It is untrue that she spent most of the night in the tent, that idea was sourced from a crime podcast that was not factual. The Scott family has debunked that as untrue.

 

[Tcri]

Hypothesizing:

It was mentioned this was a yearly party so a known hot spot/hang out. So of all the years, no one goes randomly missing except that year. So a crime of opportunity/perfect storm for someone to commit a crime?

Some things to note that stand out that may have differed from previous parties:

1. IIRC that year party was advertised publicly on Facebook and wasn't before (connected or not?)
2. Madison was vulnerable perhaps, being one of the last there on her own
3. Seems whoever killed her is local and knows the area because of the dump area. If this was just anybody, they could've dumped her in a lake (Hogsback or Sinkut) or off one of the many other roads that branch of Blackwater Rd before getting to the highway.

It is interesting the dump site looks to be one of the last roads to turn off before getting on the highway, however it is a dead end and private property IIRC.

Awfully risky and bold to go onto someone's private property (assuming a local would know it's PP) where hunting/guns, ATVs might be part of recreation life. It might've been light or getting light out as well, so of all the places in that wilderness area - that dump site is intriguing. JMO, MOO

Loading…

www.cbc.ca

Hogsback Lake to Vanderhoof

www.google.com

View attachment 508386

your thought process is correct , the family that owns the farm where her remains where found belongs to the 2 brothers who Fro said are the last to leave the party.

 

[offgrid50]

your thought process is correct , the family that owns the farm where her remains where found belongs to the 2 brothers who Fro said are the last to leave the party.

Well, it belongs to their father......but yeah, they lived there at the time.