CANADA Canada - Nicole Morin, 8, Toronto, 30 July 1985

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Hello jaycool. Thank you for your posts and your perspective.

In all the years I have been following this tragic case, I have never once heard about Nicole’s brother going missing as well, and for 15 years?! I am astounded to hear about this.

I have tried googling for more information regarding what you wrote, however I wasn’t successful.

Do you have any more information about him? How old was he when he went missing? Was he abducted? Did he manage to escape his kidnappers after all that time? How horrific that two children in the same family went missing.

Would certainly appreciate any more info you are able to provide, or any links.

Thank you.

ETA: Art’s brother killed his sister? Yet more info I had never heard of before. So much tragedy in this one family.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ns_disappearance_still_haunts_her_family.html

Here is an article that talks about Art’s sister being killed by her husband (Art’s brother-in-law).
 
Hello jaycool. Thank you for your posts and your perspective.

In all the years I have been following this tragic case, I have never once heard about Nicole’s brother going missing as well, and for 15 years?! I am astounded to hear about this.

I have tried googling for more information regarding what you wrote, however I wasn’t successful.

Do you have any more information about him? How old was he when he went missing? Was he abducted? Did he manage to escape his kidnappers after all that time? How horrific that two children in the same family went missing.

Would certainly appreciate any more info you are able to provide, or any links.

Thank you.

ETA: Art’s brother killed his sister? Yet more info I had never heard of before. So much tragedy in this one family.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2014/07/...emerge-in-1985-disappearance-of-nicole-morin/
July 3 2014
rbbm.
“Things that we’re looking into make me believe that there is a good possibility that we could find her and figure out where she is,” said Det.-Const. Kim Litster-MacLeod.

“The tips that we’ve gotten recently lead us to believe that there are certain areas that we should looking at.”

Nicole’s father Art Morin shares Litster-MacLeod’s optimism and still believes she’s alive.

Nicole’s mother, who passed away in 2007, had a child from a previous marriage taken from her by the boy’s father. Fifteen years later, her son showed up at her door.

“So why shouldn’t I believe that the same thing could happen with Nicole,” Art Morin said.
 
Hi there MrsThreadGoode. It is my pleasure.
I dont have much information about him other than what is already posted here but I wish i did.

Yes apparently Jeanette (Nicole's mother) has another child, a son, she had this child to another man.
The son went missing and the father had some part to play in his disappearance. The son simply turned up one day after all those years of being gone.

Here is a quote from the article about the murder, there is not much information floating around about it:

At one point in the investigation, police travelled to Quebec to interview Art Morin’s brother-in-law, who was convicted of murdering Morin’s sister Gertrude in 1961. He has since died and police determined he was not in Toronto at the time of Nicole’s disappearance.

It is also said that the "brother in law" (not sure of his name) held a grudge against the Morin's, that could imply Art and his wider family. I would be interested to know what this grudge was about, the reason for it, did he feel wronged by them? Whilst I dont think this man had anything directly to do with Nicole's disappearance you could question any connections the man had.

And if this guy held a grudge was there anyone else who shared his feelings such as his relatives or an accomplice that decided to abduct Nicole as a sort of punishment, the motive being revenge?
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree in my view so in order for someone to murder another you would have to question their upbringing and the kind of people they are surrounded by.

Tragedy has definitely hit this family, bad things have happened to BOTH Art and Jeanette, what does that mean, if anything? Then there was the end of their marriage as well.
Is it just bad luck or was there something deeper going on? That has played on my mind a lot. I find these events to be unrelated yet feel there could be a relation. Maybe it really is just bad luck.

It does say they have cleared all family members but i do wonder what they mean by "all", do they just mean a few people in the wider family or everyone in the wider family? How were they cleared?

It is also said a woman was strangled to death in the same building two years later where Nicole lived, they did not find any connection but it does leave you wondering, lightning rarely strikes the same place twice in such a short amount of time, even if the perp is not the same for both cases one could argue the building attracted some shady people.

I've seen quite a few comments from people who say they lived in the same building or around this area as kids mentioning how strangers would come up to them and offer then candy and sweets outside or ask them to go with them somewhere, very creepy. Since there were a good few reports of this it could certainly confirm the idea there were some pedophiles in the area.

There was a mention of a young woman who was reported as possibly being Nicole, this woman claimed she was adopted at a young age but cannot remember her childhood. I am not sure whether anything further happened with that but surely a DNA sample would have been enough to identify her and get to the bottom of it, possibly they already have and she is not the same person.

Some of this info i share here is from R.J Hoshowsky's book.

Also "Lovie Riddle" the guy who claimed he had kidnapped Nicole and passed her onto someone else, i think he was full of it, he never gave the position or name of the person she was passed onto, how convenient right? I think Lovie was just a fantasist obsessed with committing crimes and wanted to insert himself into the crimes, pretending he played a part in them to be garner attention.

PS: I want to thank those who posted the sources as i could not remember where i had read them, its been a good while.

JMO.
 
Thank you all so very much for taking the time to send all this information my way. I am very grateful. [emoji4]


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Bumping for Nicole. Was it ever confirmed if they found a shoe in the elevator or not? Or why are they certain that she made it to the elevator?

I realized no one had replied to your comment, i wish i knew the answer, i almost felt like the "shoe" was something they planted in there later to bring attention back to the case to sort of give the case some coverage after going cold, i get the feeling there's some conflicting info regarding the shoes, some say it was in the elevator but I feel there is something here that doesn't make sense.

Its a shame we dont have access to all the witness statements, that would make for something interesting and give us something to play with. From my point of view if two witnesses saw her in or around the lobby that would make it clear to me she made it, same with being outside the building, from what i have read there is a witness/witnesses claiming to see her outside the building.

If Nicole is still with us then she is now in her 40s, it is that kind of age where you start to really want to get to the bottom of who you are and to question things in my view, so i think if Nicole is still around i think there is a good chance we will know something in the next 5 years. That would be assuming Nicole has some kind of freedom or insight to escape or question her captor.

However its also true in a way that the longer this case goes on without hearing anything new the more likely she is deceased and has been deceased for years.
How a perpetrator got Nicole out of that building without anyone hearing or seeing anything still baffles me, imo it would require some sly work.

Such a complicated and sad case indeed which has unfortunately remained cold for years, i will be back later this week to post some more info on this case as i do have more to post.

JMO. Peace
 
Got a bit sidetracked over the last 2 weeks so have been delayed but as promised here are some more tid bits i wanted to post regarding this case.

I think with everything i have read on this case the chances are the perp either lived in the building or was connected to the building in some way..
Thats seems the most likely scenario.. The chances of a random person with no connection to the building hanging around in the hallway are remote but not impossible.

I have considered that it may not be someone who has any connection to the building at all but does know the Morins in some way, perp may have lived in the nearby area.
I am guessing that all the parents of the children at the daycare were interviewed. It could also be someone who turned up unannounced to the building but instead took Nicole.

Perp could have used facilities in the building but not lived there. Nicole's father was away on an errand and one of Nicole's best friends was on vacation with family during this time,
Perhaps this made Nicole an easier target for the perp who was aware of this fact, knowing they were away?

What i found interesting is that Nicole went missing near the beginning of the summer break which could give some kind of clue.
If you wanted a child to "disappear" perhaps the summer would be the best time to do it.. to start a new life somewhere else.

If Nicole was taken in by a family i believe the chances are she was probably taken to somewhere rural or the US. I think the chances are unlikely that this is what happened because i dont think the majority of perps really think through their crimes that much. Not sure if it would be easy to sneak a child into the US during the 80s and get them an American ID.

I'd consider that someone who knew the Morins was more likely to have taken her if this was the case.. I dont think Nicole was snatched simply because she happened to run into the perp randomly, the chances of running into a perp by chance in a hallway seem unlikely unless said perp was in and out of the building constantly... i dont buy this though.

I think this was someone who definitely knew her on some level, the perp might have known the Morins from somewhere in the past and this person had an eye on her..
Perhaps this person even spoke to her before at the pool or in the lobby as she was getting mail.. I do think the perp planned this though, just a hunch..

Nicole has a unique and charming look, which unfortunately could be a reason she was a target for someone with nefarious purposes like a sexual predator.
A predator could have watched her schedule, seen that she was going up and down the elevator alone and decided to place themselves into a situation to bump into her..

As Nicole had a distinct look i do think most of the witnesses did identify Nicole correctly, I dont think she would be easy to forget and would stand out among other kids..
I think its also hard to miss a girl of 8 years walking alone in a swimsuit with a towel, bag and other belongings.. especially if she was hanging around the lobby for a while.

What I'd like to know is whether the witnesses who claimed to see her said they saw her in the swimsuit with the rest of her belongings she was said to have..
This would clear up confusion as some of them might have actually seen Nicole going to the lobby earlier that morning to collect the mail as she'd likely be in different attire then.

The next issue is me speculating where Nicole actually disappeared, since they cannot 100% confirm Nicole got to the lobby makes me think the people investigating the case aren't so confident
about the witness statements or there is a lack of witnesses, a lot of people believe she disappeared somewhere between the top floor and the elevator on one of the floors which is very likely.

Will be back to post more soon..

JMO
 
Got a bit sidetracked over the last 2 weeks so have been delayed but as promised here are some more tid bits i wanted to post regarding this case.

I think with everything i have read on this case the chances are the perp either lived in the building or was connected to the building in some way..
Thats seems the most likely scenario.. The chances of a random person with no connection to the building hanging around in the hallway are remote but not impossible.

I have considered that it may not be someone who has any connection to the building at all but does know the Morins in some way, perp may have lived in the nearby area.
I am guessing that all the parents of the children at the daycare were interviewed. It could also be someone who turned up unannounced to the building but instead took Nicole.

Perp could have used facilities in the building but not lived there. Nicole's father was away on an errand and one of Nicole's best friends was on vacation with family during this time,
Perhaps this made Nicole an easier target for the perp who was aware of this fact, knowing they were away?

What i found interesting is that Nicole went missing near the beginning of the summer break which could give some kind of clue.
If you wanted a child to "disappear" perhaps the summer would be the best time to do it.. to start a new life somewhere else.

If Nicole was taken in by a family i believe the chances are she was probably taken to somewhere rural or the US. I think the chances are unlikely that this is what happened because i dont think the majority of perps really think through their crimes that much. Not sure if it would be easy to sneak a child into the US during the 80s and get them an American ID.

I'd consider that someone who knew the Morins was more likely to have taken her if this was the case.. I dont think Nicole was snatched simply because she happened to run into the perp randomly, the chances of running into a perp by chance in a hallway seem unlikely unless said perp was in and out of the building constantly... i dont buy this though.

I think this was someone who definitely knew her on some level, the perp might have known the Morins from somewhere in the past and this person had an eye on her..
Perhaps this person even spoke to her before at the pool or in the lobby as she was getting mail.. I do think the perp planned this though, just a hunch..

Nicole has a unique and charming look, which unfortunately could be a reason she was a target for someone with nefarious purposes like a sexual predator.
A predator could have watched her schedule, seen that she was going up and down the elevator alone and decided to place themselves into a situation to bump into her..

As Nicole had a distinct look i do think most of the witnesses did identify Nicole correctly, I dont think she would be easy to forget and would stand out among other kids..
I think its also hard to miss a girl of 8 years walking alone in a swimsuit with a towel, bag and other belongings
.. especially if she was hanging around the lobby for a while.

What I'd like to know is whether the witnesses who claimed to see her said they saw her in the swimsuit with the rest of her belongings she was said to have..
This would clear up confusion as some of them might have actually seen Nicole going to the lobby earlier that morning to collect the mail as she'd likely be in different attire then.

The next issue is me speculating where Nicole actually disappeared, since they cannot 100% confirm Nicole got to the lobby makes me think the people investigating the case aren't so confident
about the witness statements or there is a lack of witnesses, a lot of people believe she disappeared somewhere between the top floor and the elevator on one of the floors which is very likely.

Will be back to post more soon..

JMO
Rbbm.
When Nicole's 'distinct look" was mentioned it occurred to me that NM was somewhat similar in appearance imo, to Jessica Lloyd, one of the victims of former Col. Russell Williams.
At that time he was in Toronto studying at U of T
Just a crazy thought, but had to note fwiw. speculation, imo.
https://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/2010/02/13/life_and_times_of_col_russell_williams.html
As police forces across the country dig up cold cases and review Williams' history, the possibility of his connection to any crimes are pieces being carefully collected in an effort to answer one question: Who, really, is Russell Williams?
 
Rbbm.
When Nicole's 'distinct look" was mentioned it occurred to me that NM was somewhat similar in appearance imo, to Jessica Lloyd, one of the victims of former Col. Russell Williams.
At that time he was in Toronto studying at U of T
Just a crazy thought, but had to note fwiw. speculation, imo.
https://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/2010/02/13/life_and_times_of_col_russell_williams.html
Hi dotr. I think i get where you are coming from, the perp may have a "type". Brown hair, French ethnic look perhaps? I do think there is certainly some similarity there with Jessica.

I had not actually heard of Russel Williams until you had mentioned him, if he was operating as a criminal in the mid 80s he would be in his 20s at the time, he is now 55 as of 2018.
It would be interesting to see his history such as the types of women he dated and had relationships with over the years including previous places he lived.

Certainly there is a chance hes been doing this for many years prior to the crimes he's already made public so perhaps there are other big crimes he was involved in.
Maybe he lived in Toronto during the 80s then moved away from the City, I've heard it is well known for criminals to distance themselves from previous crimes.

I noticed in an article about him that he was found to keep laundry of an eleven year old as well which points to a likely attraction toward minors. Therefore you could question if he has committed crimes involving minors as well. I do have a feeling though that this man isn't the one who abducted Nicole but anything is possible i guess.

Russell is definitely a big risk taker breaking into homes. I do wonder if those who investigated him think he has committed more crimes that he isn't revealing?
It's terrifying how many people across the globe go missing, there one minute and gone the next.

Its definitely possible someone already behind bars may be the one responsible for Nicole's disappearance and that this person has simply been tight lipped.
How common statistically is it for someone to commit a crime such as abduction once and never commit a criminal offense again?

Jmo.
 
Hi dotr. I think i get where you are coming from, the perp may have a "type". Brown hair, French ethnic look perhaps? I do think there is certainly some similarity there with Jessica.

I had not actually heard of Russel Williams until you had mentioned him, if he was operating as a criminal in the mid 80s he would be in his 20s at the time, he is now 55 as of 2018.
It would be interesting to see his history such as the types of women he dated and had relationships with over the years including previous places he lived.

Certainly there is a chance hes been doing this for many years prior to the crimes he's already made public so perhaps there are other big crimes he was involved in.
Maybe he lived in Toronto during the 80s then moved away from the City, I've heard it is well known for criminals to distance themselves from previous crimes.

I noticed in an article about him that he was found to keep laundry of an eleven year old as well which points to a likely attraction toward minors. Therefore you could question if he has committed crimes involving minors as well. I do have a feeling though that this man isn't the one who abducted Nicole but anything is possible i guess.

Russell is definitely a big risk taker breaking into homes. I do wonder if those who investigated him think he has committed more crimes that he isn't revealing?
It's terrifying how many people across the globe go missing, there one minute and gone the next.

Its definitely possible someone already behind bars may be the one responsible for Nicole's disappearance and that this person has simply been tight lipped.
How common statistically is it for someone to commit a crime such as abduction once and never commit a criminal offense again?

Jmo.

There are many references in a variety of articles to RW's tendencies, most too gross to post, just a sliver here in this article..

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2010/10/18/the_secret_life_of_col_russell_williams_exposed.html
We learned that Williams, 47, had pedophile tendencies, stealing underwear of girls as young as 9 years old during the 82 fetish home invasions and attempted break-ins between Sept. 2007 and November 2009.
 
There are many references in a variety of articles to RW's tendencies, most too gross to post, just a sliver here in this article..

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2010/10/18/the_secret_life_of_col_russell_williams_exposed.html
Thanks dotr. That article is very descriptive of his crimes. The fact he went as far as filming his victims while he abused and murdered them... too graphic.

One can only wonder how people end up turning out this way, he sounds like a possible psychopath, as soon as "obsessive" and "sadistic" behavior is mentioned i can't help but think that.
That question remains strongly with what was he doing in his prior years, wonder if any previous partners of his came forward about abuse.

I had read of Paul Bernardo and Francis Carl Roy before this and had tried to see they might have been involved in Nicole's disappearance but i am not sold on these two either.
If Russell has been found to abduct people in public places that could open up a can of worms. If there are missing people near to his 2 homes I'd certainly wonder if he was connected to any of them.

For anyone interested here is the thread for Jessica Lloyd and Marie France Comeau which discusses David Russell William:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...mp-Jessica-Lloyd-27-slain-Ont-2009-amp-2010-1
 
More summarizing from me...

I recall someone (possibly the friend) saying they saw the elevator come down from the top floor and stop at a middle floor (someone mentioned 13th floor or near),
I think if the crime scene was on one of those middle floors of the building then I still think the perp was waiting for Nicole and it wasn't a random run in..

It's very suspicious for an elevator to descend from the top floor, stop at one floor on the way down before turning up empty at the lobby,
clearly someone intended to come down the elevator but did not make it for whatever reason. Seems obvious that this was probably the window of opportunity for the perp.

This would likely mean the perp would have had to have grabbed Nicole off the elevator or lured her with something, some people here mentioned someone saying they will
walk down to the pool with her before grabbing their gear or telling her they have a kitten and she could see it.. all possible i suppose.

I am suspecting probably a struggle on the elevator and into the hallway if the "shoe on the elevator" detail is correct.
I dont think the perp would not have risked leaving a shoe lying around or just dropped it which to me implies the shoe likely fell off in the hallway..

As for the rumor the other shoe was found outside the building, the perp could have thrown it out of the window from a higher floor so it lands on the land below,
rather than it being dropped accidentally which i dont think the perp was clumsy enough to do.. but again if this was true the perp could thrown both shoes from the window.

Like i said though i dont think the perp is daft enough to drop the shoes, putting them in the trash would have been easier.. this is why i often question the shoe thing
and why i think it may been put in there as an added piece to bring attention back to the case. Why would the perp risk leaving the shoe on the elevator?

Now assuming the shoe was on the elevator there was something else i noticed.. The friend waits for Nicole at the lobby but she never arrives..
When the elevator came to the lobby/ground floor the friend never mentioned seeing a shoe on the empty elevator when it reached the lobby..

To me this could only mean the shoe was put on the elevator much later, not right away, some time after the abduction.
Either that or the friend was not waiting at the time the elevator arrived, i am not doubting the friend, im just being open minded here.

So perhaps the shoe was in that hallway for a while where the crime was committed, the perp returned some thirty minutes or so later..
Then they possibly kicked/threw the shoe into the elevator to throw off the scent (to confuse the investigation)..

I say that because I really dont think the perp would have time to hold a struggling child while running back to kick a shoe onto the elevator.
I have always wondered why the perp didnt just dispose of the shoe somewhere else, why the perp left one of the shoes on an elevator always seemed odd to me..

Now if the shoe actually fell off on the elevator when the crime happened then again i revert back to the friend not seeing a shoe on the elevator when it opened up..
I am guessing she would have been facing the elevator as it opened..

I would for sure say that if Nicole was taken in the hallway then it was someone living in the building as perp would have no way to isolate the child and plan an escape with her..
Would it be possible for a perp in this situation to grab a child and carry her down the staircase without making any noise at all? Im not so sure of that..

Jmo. Will be back to post again later this week..
 
Just jumping in on this case for the first time here. Patience pls as I haven’t read everything as yet.

Thoughts:
- Nicole had an exchange via their intercom with her friend who was waiting for her in the lobby. This happened just before she left to meet the friend.
- Is it possible someone heard her friend and her talking over the intercom before Nicole left her apt? Was this a shared party line? Could anyone pick up the phone and hear the conversation? Or was this a speaker system so others in the area on either end could hear? Eg: a speaker in the lobby - anyone leave the lobby to go up after hearing Nicole was on route down? Anyone in neighboring apt or the hallway outside her place who could have overheard the intercom exchange between Nicole and her friend?

2. I’d go visit people in apartments back then and was always amused that you could set the tv to a given station and watch the lobby / main hallway from the privacy of your apartment. Could someone have been keeping an eye out on Nicole? Looking for an opportunity to grab her? If someone saw the friend on that station on tv waiting in the lobby perhaps they could guess Nicole might be on her way down shortly? Maybe the kids had a bit of a routine going? Every day they’d meet in the lobby around the same time? If a tv system to mind the lobby existed there as it surely must have - that might have made stalking her or any other tenant super easy.

3. I’d like to discuss fb here but I’m aware it’s not appropriate as it’s not mainsteam media. Therefore, I’ll encourage members to head there and search for Nicole Morin. There are some interesting points to consider which may provide some (possibly) new (?) direction for members to sleuth. Forgive me if people have done this already as I did note I’ve only just begun to learn about this particular missing child.
 
Just jumping in on this case for the first time here. Patience pls as I haven’t read everything as yet.

Thoughts:
- Nicole had an exchange via their intercom with her friend who was waiting for her in the lobby. This happened just before she left to meet the friend.
- Is it possible someone heard her friend and her talking over the intercom before Nicole left her apt? Was this a shared party line? Could anyone pick up the phone and hear the conversation? Or was this a speaker system so others in the area on either end could hear? Eg: a speaker in the lobby - anyone leave the lobby to go up after hearing Nicole was on route down? Anyone in neighboring apt or the hallway outside her place who could have overheard the intercom exchange between Nicole and her friend?

2. I’d go visit people in apartments back then and was always amused that you could set the tv to a given station and watch the lobby / main hallway from the privacy of your apartment. Could someone have been keeping an eye out on Nicole? Looking for an opportunity to grab her? If someone saw the friend on that station on tv waiting in the lobby perhaps they could guess Nicole might be on her way down shortly? Maybe the kids had a bit of a routine going? Every day they’d meet in the lobby around the same time? If a tv system to mind the lobby existed there as it surely must have - that might have made stalking her or any other tenant super easy.

3. I’d like to discuss fb here but I’m aware it’s not appropriate as it’s not mainsteam media. Therefore, I’ll encourage members to head there and search for Nicole Morin. There are some interesting points to consider which may provide some (possibly) new (?) direction for members to sleuth. Forgive me if people have done this already as I did note I’ve only just begun to learn about this particular missing child.

Great ideas, glad you posted here!
 
I’d like to know more about mom and her movements with Nicole in the time before she vanished. Specifically, where did they live in the months before the penthouse? I cannot discuss rumours read on fb however, if you search for info regarding this issue, it is available.
 
I found the mom’s obit from April 2007. This confirmed for me some other info that we may or may not have had before (again new so this may be common knowledge here). I’d like to know why Nicole wasn’t mentioned in her obit? Her older son was mentioned along with mom’s parents and her brother. Nothing about Nicole. Struck me as odd. Also, in finding the obit, I was able to verify at least some of the items I read on social media such as fb or reddit. A lot interesting info on reddit as well. Things I have to wonder about and maybe you will as well.
 
Following up on obits, I found the obit for Nicole’s older half brother. He died in 2013. Interesting to note he had a daughter named after their mother, and his obit did mention Nicole as his sister. His did not seem to mention his father though. The brother was born in the early 1950s. Where was he when Nicole vanished? Where was his father?
 
Following up on obits, I found the obit for Nicole’s older half brother. He died in 2013. Interesting to note he had a daughter named after their mother, and his obit did mention Nicole as his sister. His did not seem to mention his father though. The brother was born in the early 1950s. Where was he when Nicole vanished? Where was his father?

Hello photographer4! Welcome to this board.

I wish I had an answer to your question.

Forgive me for not providing a link, but, IIRC, upthread I also read that the half brother that you mentioned ALSO went missing at some point in time, which I found to be extremely tragic and odd when I read it. Although I haven’t been able to find any further details about that.

MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
To my understanding, the older half brother was taken by his own father and then he showed up of his own accord at his mom’s suddenly 15 years later. I don’t have links from media to substantiate this as yet. I will return to share should I find one.
 

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