Canada - Sentry killed in War Memorial shooting, Ottawa, 22 Oct 2014

[Woodland]

One error is one to many imo.

Cabana said realizing the mistake didn't make much of a difference for investigators.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ott...igation-opp-to-probe-police-conduct-1.2813339

To me, the above quote was the wrong answer to the 'mistake' on where MZB wanted to travel. Tell that to some innocent person down the road - it will happen and a flippant response is what we don't need.

Paulson has plenty of unfinished projects to get caught up on. The so-called 'National' missing persons database is far from up to date and what is the status of the DNA database for these missing and unidentified people? Will it be complete in 2016 as promised? He has all kinds of sexual based complaints from the females he oversees that he is not dealing with and why is human trafficking and child *advertiser censored* a problem in Canada? The current resources could use a little revamping, imo. More resources and power seems like a situation 'they' can't quite handle, imo.

 

[Sillybilly]

Cabana's direct quote explains in more detail, and IMO doesn't sound as flippant as the reporter's summation; :

"On the day of the press conference, the investigators were going back and listening and transcribing the audio of the interview with the mother and they realized she was talking about Saudi Arabia," RCMP Deputy Commissioner Mike Cabana confirmed to CBC News.

"They briefed everyone, but it was too late. The Commissioner had already made the statement."

Cabana said realizing the mistake didn't make much of a difference for investigators.

"Individuals who want to travel to Syria often travel to other points like Turkey, or Saudi Arabia, or elsewhere and then transit to Syria, and often don't tell people they plan to go there. So for us, it made no difference," he said.

 

[Woodland]

My point exactly - they incorrectly transcribed a statement, jumped to a conclusion and could very well be wrong. We won't know that now.

There are many Canadians and US citizens in Saudi Arabia for their livelihood - are they under watch now? Seems to me a) the longer one has been in a Muslim country the more scrutiny one will be under and b) Canadian citizens who are new to a Muslim world and come into contact with a radicalized person haven't got a prayer. They won't know what can happen.

Would like to see Paulson clean up his own backyard before insisting he needs to crawl through others. I'd give him more credit if he could demonstrate this. Often, imo, people equate a title and authority with automatic knowledge and ability to do the right thing. Not so in the private sector - how many people have had to report to a person that got the 'supervisor' or 'manager' position based on being aggressive enough to get there?

When war broke out in Lebanon a few years back, who was the last county to get their people out? That country ended up renting a cruise ship after a couple of weeks to pick their beloved people up - everyone else in the world had already evacuated their citizens. What confuses me still is, why did this country not ask the good old US of A to pick their people up, considering the size of their ships and proximity to said other country? Yeah, we are in good hands alright when things go south.

The best predictor of future behavior is - past behavior. Don't care who 'they' are - it still applies. Imo.

 

[Sillybilly]

My point exactly - they incorrectly transcribed a statement, jumped to a conclusion and could very well be wrong. We won't know that now.

This is an ongoing and fluid investigation and I don't see that anyone has jumped to any conclusions ... the Commissioner incorrectly stated Syria rather than Saudi Arabia .. and it has been acknowledged that investigators listening to the tape know what was said. So, we do know this now ... and this in no way changes the fact that Bibeau killed Nathan Cirillo and attempted to storm Parliament, and apparently had an affinity for ISIS/ISIL ideology.


FWIW, ISIS/ISIL recruiters are well-known to be active in Saudi Arabia:

from:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...o-announce-arrest-of-a-cell-of-inciters-.html

Saudi Arabia busts cell of ISIS recruiters

By Staff writer | Al Arabiya News
Tuesday, 26 August 2014

The Saudi interior ministry said Tuesday it detained eight individuals for trying to recruit youth into “extremist groups abroad.”
Al Arabiya News channel that the recruits were for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

Personally, I'm glad Paulson was aggressive enough to get there ... not a job for the faint of heart

 

[Woodland]

We know who killed who. We don't know why - and may never know.

Paulson needs to finish what he starts. Tough job indeed - can he do it?

 

[Sillybilly]

As for your opinion that Paulson is fear-mongering ... would we rather he say nothing at all about the investigation and have Canadians feeling all warm and fuzzy while under the possible misconception that Bibeau was just a nut-case and we have no reason to look beyond that, that Canada is not vulnerable to terrorist activity when recently ISIS has specifically warned we should not sleep well in our beds? IMO, Canada is no more immune than other countries that have been threatened. Or, perhaps we should just all keep our heads in the sand and pretend that is not a possibility.

IMO, Paulson was trying to give an update to Canadians without revealing too much sensitive information or evidence while there is an ongoing investigation into the murders of 2 soldiers within 2 days in this country and an attack on our Parliament. I guess there are folks who think he should have just kept his mouth shut or said, don't worry ... guy was just another crazy

 

[Sillybilly]

We know who killed who. We don't know why - and may never know.

Paulson needs to finish what he starts. Tough job indeed - can he do it?

It's been 5 days !! A bit premature when the RCMP haven't even finished their investigation into what may or may not be related so that we can perhaps know what we need to know.

Sorry, I'm not understanding what you refer to that Paulson needs to finish what he starts.

ETA: Okay ... was in one of your prior posts.

 

[Woodland]

I don't think Paulson is fear-mongering alone btw. He isn't the only one with aspirations to bigger power that he has not demonstrated he can handle.

Paulson was very correct in giving us info on what he thinks happened - it worked extremely well when he advised us why so many aboriginal women are dead or missing and presumed dead. It put an end to the debate on an inquiry imo - and rightly so also imo.

Doesn't make him correct now though. It appears he could be wrong and is flippant, imo, about an incorrect perception. What about his own backyard? We seem to have gotten away from that.

How about this - an independent body puts out an on-line vote - all those who want to give up rights to the feds, RCMP etc 'click here' for a warm and fuzzy feeling. All those that don't think that will happen, click here.

I put forward Jimmy Carter with his background on overseeing elections in other countries. Can't think of anyone else at the moment that I would trust with that burden.

 

[Sillybilly]

Paulson has plenty of unfinished projects to get caught up on. The so-called 'National' missing persons database is far from up to date and what is the status of the DNA database for these missing and unidentified people? Will it be complete in 2016 as promised? He has all kinds of sexual based complaints from the females he oversees that he is not dealing with and why is human trafficking and child *advertiser censored* a problem in Canada? The current resources could use a little revamping, imo. More resources and power seems like a situation 'they' can't quite handle, imo.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/without-a-trace/article19800319/?page=all

The Conservatives’ latest budget, tabled in February, pledged up to $8.1-million over five years starting in 2016-2017 to create a DNA-based national missing persons index (MPI). It’s what Ms. Peterson has been fighting for since about 2000.

WRT Canada’s Missing Persons Database, the database/website itself was set up by the RCMP and operational in 2013. It is managed by them, but the information has to be provided by police forces and coroners throughout Canada. If it’s not complete, it’s not Paulson’s fault.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/british-columbia/story/1.1306936

The database behind the website is not complete and only represents a sampling of cases from across Canada, with just 715 entries.

On Thursday, a search for cases of unidentified remains returns 105 results for Ontario, 45 results for B.C., four for Saskatchewan, and one case each for Quebec, Manitoba, and New Brunswick.

Out of 540 entries for missing children and adults, 40 records are for B.C. residents who went missing — those records include Michael Dunahee, Matthew Huszar, and a number of women who are thought to have gone missing along northern B.C.'s Highway of Tears.

The database also contains information on 18 people who are related to a missing person's case, either by association or family relationship.

The RCMP says the case information on canadasmissing.ca comes from police officers, medical examiners and chief coroners and cases are added by request of primary investigators.

As for human trafficking and child *advertiser censored*, they are global problems that affect many countries, NONE of which have been able to totally eradicate it.

WRT Paulson not doing enough about discipline as it relates to sexual harassment cases, he has strongly expressed his desire for change, but he and his predecessors have been bound by an outdated RCMP Act, strong unions, and decision of adjudication boards. While Commissioners can have input and make recommendations wrt changes within the Act, they do not have the ultimate authority to change it … like all other Acts, changes are required to go through the normal governmental, bureaucratic processes.

Ditto WRT the DNA Identification Act as it relates to missing persons. (Note: legislation has been introduced today to expand the RCMP’s existing DNA databank)

http://www.mywebmemo.com/top-storie...-create-dna-based-missing-persons_268715.html

 

[Sillybilly]

Although i've been participating in the more general political discussion, we've gone so far OT in this thread, and I think we should stick to discussing the case at hand.

 

[Woodland]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/csi...er-new-bill-tabled-by-steven-blaney-1.2814314

Bill C-44, dubbed the protection of Canada from terrorists act, was expected to be introduced last week before a gunman launched an attack in the capital.

The timing of events is very helpful to those that want new sweeping powers. Why was it delayed?

If this passes, our court system would be eroded. Not democratic at all, imo.

Bill C-44, as CBC News reported earlier, amends the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act to:

Give "greater protection" to confidential sources without having to identify them in court proceedings, even to the judge.

Can't imagine anyone is actually signing up for this - or advocating for it.

Like the Star article from Sunday said - time and perspective should prevail here.

Under no stretch of the imagination can I categorize what happened last week as terrorist acts. Find it curious that when the soldiers were run down in a parking lot in Quebec - Harper was immediately labeling it a terrorist act. No one really paid attention - until a couple of days later. A different act by a different guy - no relation to the two events that anyone can see. Helpful to some it seems. Jmo.

 

[Woodland]

Glad Paulson has many excuses - should relieve any confusion or doubts.

Sure lets change the the direction now.

 

[Woodland]

Oh, can I add one more thing?

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/10/27/rcmp-rejects-90-of-formal-complaints

OTTAWA -- The RCMP received almost 13,000 formal public complaints since 2010, but the force rejected 90% of them, QMI Agency has learned.

Have a feeling the media is not on board with the more power stuff.

 

[dotr]

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/10/27/big_show_of_force_at_hamilton_funeral.html

"The regimental funeral for Cpl. Nathan Cirillo, the 24-year-old reservist from Hamilton gunned down in Ottawa last week, will be held amidst heavy security given the recent attacks on uniformed soldiers.

Among other things, police officers expected to pay their respects Tuesday in Hamilton are being asked to wear their regular uniforms rather their dress uniforms — as is the tradition at most funerals police attend — so that they are armed, Catherine Martin, a spokesperson for the Hamilton Police Service, confirmed Monday.

“All police will be in working dress . . . versus a dress uniform,” added OPP Commissioner Vince Hawkes".

 

[Intermezzo]

I needed a few tissues to finish reading this article...

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health...rying+save+Nathan+Cirillo/10318953/story.html

‘You are so loved’ — Ottawa lawyer describes trying to save Cpl. Nathan Cirillo

Remarkably, everyone on the scene had First Aid or medical training. Instinctively, they began operating as a team, talking and encouraging one another.

They began CPR. The soldier at Cirillo's head started mouth-to-mouth respiration. Winters began compressing Cirillo's chest. She asked Magnan, who was holding Cirillo's legs, to lift them higher. Lerhe, the nurse, coached Winters on the compressions, reassuring her that they were strong.

"Your family loves you. Your parents are so proud of you. Your military family loves you. All the people here, we're working so hard for you. Everybody loves you."

 

[Sillybilly]

Under no stretch of the imagination can I categorize what happened last week as terrorist acts. Find it curious that when the soldiers were run down in a parking lot in Quebec - Harper was immediately labeling it a terrorist act. No one really paid attention - until a couple of days later. A different act by a different guy - no relation to the two events that anyone can see. Helpful to some it seems. Jmo.

So Martin Couture-Rouleau (driver of the car that killed Patrice Vincent) was on a watch list and LE spoke with him in July out of concern that he may have become radicalized after his conversion to Islam:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...run-driver-arrested-by-rcmp-in-july-1.2807078

Then ISIS issues the following statement in September:

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ievers-9749512.html+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Abu Mohammed al Adnani urged the group’s supporters: “If you can kill a disbelieving American or European – especially the spiteful and filthy French – or an Australian, or a Canadian, or any other disbeliever from the disbelievers waging war, including the citizens of the countries that entered into a coalition against the Islamic State, then rely upon Allah, and kill him in any manner or way, however it may be,” he said.

“Smash his head with a rock, or slaughter him with a knife, or run him over with your car, or throw him down from a high place, or choke him, or poison him.”

<bbm>

Then LE spoke with Couture-Rouleau again in early October, and he subsequently runs down two Canadian soldiers with his car, killing one of them.

Then Oct 21 Canada sends air support against ISIS

Then Bibeau, another convert to Islam who appears to have become radicalized, kills a Canadian soldier and trys to storm Parliament.

Why do folks have trouble believing this could be terrorism?

 

[SouthAussie]

So Martin Couture-Rouleau (driver of the car that killed Patrice Vincent) was on a watch list and LE spoke with him in July out of concern that he may have become radicalized after his conversion to Islam:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...run-driver-arrested-by-rcmp-in-july-1.2807078

Then ISIS issues the following statement in September:

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ievers-9749512.html+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

<bbm>

Then LE spoke with Couture-Rouleau again in early October, and he subsequently runs down two Canadian soldiers with his car, killing one of them.

Then Oct 21 Canada sends air support against ISIS

Then Bibeau, another convert to Islam who appears to have become radicalized, kills a Canadian soldier and trys to storm Parliament.

Why do folks have trouble believing this could be terrorism?

I don't have a problem believing it, sillybilly :seeya:

I keep trying to say how we are having such similar incidents in our country. Thousands and thousands of kilometres away. And we are having to put in place similar responses to protect our uniformed men and women. This is no coincidence. These radical unstable people are being encouraged, and it is happening all over the world.

 

[SouthAussie]

"For years, Canada has been warned that terrorism was developing on our home soil. A 1999 Canadian Security Intelligence Service report listed 50 terrorist groups that had "sleeper cells." The list included al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and the Kurdistan Workers Party.

The prime minister, to his credit, has banned many of these groups. Alas, there are other terrorists &#8212; including the Islamic State &#8212; that threaten our very existence. After what happened in Ottawa, widespread concerns about the threat of homegrown terrorism now exist.

Canada is therefore going to have to enhance security measures. This may mean putting more money into the military &#8230; , spy agencies such as the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the RCMP.

Some civil libertarians won't be happy with this, in spite of what's recently happened. That being said, I believe we need to give up a little (for example, increased funding for security measures) to get a whole lot (for example, more safety and security) in return.

Clearly, something is afoot in Canada, and it needs to be stopped to ensure we remain safe and secure."

http://www.dailyrecord.com/story/op...ootings-will-tighten-us-canada-ties/17820267/

 

[newone]

I needed a few tissues to finish reading this article...

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health...rying+save+Nathan+Cirillo/10318953/story.html

‘You are so loved’ — Ottawa lawyer describes trying to save Cpl. Nathan Cirillo

Remarkably, everyone on the scene had First Aid or medical training. Instinctively, they began operating as a team, talking and encouraging one another.

They began CPR. The soldier at Cirillo's head started mouth-to-mouth respiration. Winters began compressing Cirillo's chest. She asked Magnan, who was holding Cirillo's legs, to lift them higher. Lerhe, the nurse, coached Winters on the compressions, reassuring her that they were strong.

"Your family loves you. Your parents are so proud of you. Your military family loves you. All the people here, we're working so hard for you. Everybody loves you."

When I first read that story about the former naval reservist now lawyer providing both comfort and CPR to Cirillo I just wept.

On a proactive note, it's a stunning reminder for people like me to remember to refresh CPR knowledge for the times when it might be needed. (MOO)

 

[SouthAussie]

Coming in the wake of the government&#8217;s announcement that Canada would join US-led air strikes on Islamic State (IS) and less than 48 hours after a soldier was deliberately run over in a similar lone wolf attack in Quebec, the attack has had a profound impact on a country which prides itself on the accessibility of its public buildings.

But the Canadian incidents have a significance for other western countries too; they underline the pernicious threat of radicalisation and the challenge of producing effective strategies to combat both the flow of western Muslims travelling to Syria and the sudden spike in IS-inspired lone wolf attacks on those in uniform.

These, however, are exactly the kind of socially isolated individuals IS is now inciting to carry out ad hoc attacks like the one on Lee Rigby in Woolwich in May last year.

Last month, the group&#8217;s spokesman, Abu Mohammad al-Adnani, called on supporters in Australia, Canada, France, the US and the UK, to kill any soldier or civilian they could by any means at their disposal. Soon after, 18-year-old Numan Haider was shot dead after stabbing two officers outside a police station in Victoria, Australia, and on Friday, Zale Thompson, 32, was shot dead after attacking four police officers with a machete in New York.

Regardless of their mental state or their lack of formal links to IS, it seems clear all four men were influenced by its ideology and its call to arms.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/world/canada-deals-with-aftermath-of-terrorist-acts-1-3584138