I’m not buying the abuse narrative. I even wonder if that matters to a psychopath? He appeared to be affected by the emergence of a successful younger brother, judging by the refusal to interact. A lot of little kids would happy to see the end of a younger sibling.(Lookin at you Burke)
CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #2
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Just my opinion but, I don’t think this guy planned to die. I think he was figuring on basking in the notoriety. He was probably one of the few people who could tell us what was going on in the heads of those two idiots from Port Alberni though.
My reason for thinking the information re. abuse comes from an interview from someone other than the common law is the following:
Re-reading the warrant document, there are sets of numbered paragraphs in which individuals are interviewed. The sections begin with "Statement of [redacted], followed by a line which further identifies the interviewee. The second line is unredacted, or fully or partially redacted; for example [Victim [redacted] Gabriel Wortman" or "Victim and acquaintance of Gabriel Wortman".
Beginning at p. 24/40, RCMP officers interview an individual identified as the "Common Law" of gw. Information from this interview is numbered paras. 28.1 - 28.23.
Page 28 begins a record of a new interview, paras. 29.1 - 29.14. The information was collected from the interview conducted by HRP. The name and relation of gw are both fully redacted. This is the section under which childhood abuse and a breakdown are mentioned. The fully redacted relationship may be the common law. The interviewers are different than those who did interview #28, and the RCMP have said she was interviewed more than once. However, other interviews contain information obtained by more than the primary interviewers. So, one might anticipate all the information collected to that date from the common law would be outlined under #28.
In my opinion, the redacted relationship at #29 could be someone other than the common law, such as an uncle (or other). I tend toward thinking interview #29 is a separate person from the interviewee in #28.
tayaway
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Aye, let's not go back to the days of asylums and lobotomies. As a society, we need to break down the stigma attached to mental illness. It requires a cultural change. We need community support systems. Even being taught how to listen to others can make a difference.
Alcohol does rot your brain over time. You may be right. I wonder if the coroner dissected his brain. Yes, laws must be changed to prevent people from decaling up their decommissioned police cruisers or owning old uniforms. This killer, despite having no PAL, had lots of weapons and ammo, which is another giant loophole, but then again, he was a wealthy white man. Depending on your skin color, gender, and class, the authorities deal with you in different ways. Sure, Canada is a peaceful country for certain groups of people, but for others, it's extremely violent and dangerous.
As you've illustrated, it's complex. I don't know what the answer is either.
MistyWaters
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Portapique memorial moved, residents ask for privacy - HalifaxToday.ca
“Taggart says he’s glad Nova Scotians are showing their support, but that residents of the area also want privacy. “These people are going through a lot,” he says.
The councillor says the area is much busier than it once was, with people coming to pay their respects, but also take a look at the crime scenes.
“By dinner time this road will be like the 401 with people that are driving down to see what took place,” he says.
But as the home of the gunman on Portapique Beach Road was recently bulldozed, Taggart says there’s not much to look at anymore...”
“Taggart says he’s glad Nova Scotians are showing their support, but that residents of the area also want privacy. “These people are going through a lot,” he says.
The councillor says the area is much busier than it once was, with people coming to pay their respects, but also take a look at the crime scenes.
“By dinner time this road will be like the 401 with people that are driving down to see what took place,” he says.
But as the home of the gunman on Portapique Beach Road was recently bulldozed, Taggart says there’s not much to look at anymore...”
Just wondering how you know he refused to interact with the successful younger brother? I understand he wasn't at the reunion meeting with the parents, but it was said, that would be arranged for another time. I'm aware that the younger brother has met, and maintains communication with other family members (uncles/cousins for example), so am wondering how you know he didn't at least meet with his older brother, if not to continue any interaction afterwards. I haven't seen that information anywhere one way or the other.
Can confirm that witness Brenda Forbes (husband George) owned and then sold 293 Portapique Beach Road, and that is the home that was burned downed, where John Zahl and Joanne Elizabeth Thomas resided. The same home, that Brenda Forbes said that the common law ran to for help in the early 2000s and was Brenda's first awareness of a domestic violence issue.
Of course, Brenda also said in an interview she gave that she believes GW went to that home because of her, and she wishes she had said something to (warn) the new home buyers.
2013 Year Building Permits (do a search for George Forbes), and you will find he applied on May 29, 2013 for a $20K addition for his property on Portapique Beach Road. The address number isn't given, but you will note there is what is called a PID number: (Premises Identification Number) 20330650
Link: https://www.colchester.ca/building-permit-statistics-2013/915-2013-yearly-building-permit-list/file
That same PID number also shows up on and corresponds with the sales history records at Viewpoint Realty for 293 Portapique Beach Road.
Link: https://www.viewpoint.ca/cutsheet/201601388/1?fbclid=IwAR3nLEAg0o7e6YDEO4R91hw6KNwREP50Op1XHbswDQoNptks9e-Q8clw1vY
Link should take you to the main sales history page (image should be there when you open the link, and if not, then you need to sign up for a free account first.)
It shows the PID number on the bottom left-hand side matches: Listing ID: 201601388 PID 20330650 [R]
From what I can see, it's one of the more expensive properties on the road that's been for sale, and is probably more prime real estate because it's just down the road from what was GW's property, and both properties back out right onto the bay. The pictures from the sales history (click on the little notepad to the left once you open up the actual sales history) show a pretty idyllic setting for retirement and to leave that behind, Brenda and her husband had to have been very frightened to want to sell "and get out of the area". Brenda did say it took a while to sell (showing 292 days on the market in 2015 and then expired, and then 288 days on the market in 2016 before it sold). Like Brenda said, they took a loss on it -- initial listing price was at $350K, down to $250K, and it sold for $240K
I used the measuring tool on the map following the roadway, and it is approximately 463 yards (converted from metres) from 200 Portapique Beach Road to 293 Portapique Beach Road. To give more perspective, 500 yards is just over a 1/4 mile.
Links to Brenda Forbes articles (one audio, one video):
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappen...says-she-was-scared-to-death-of-him-1.5567781
Nova Scotia gunman’s ex-neighbour says she tried to stop him earlier | Watch News Videos Online
I also wondered and speculated myself if GW was interested in that property for himself, and would be a reason that he visited the "Zahl" home and set fire to it. He also owned the property between 200 and 293 Portapique Beach Road -- number 287. Neighbours had indicated he had showed interest in buying other properties, but I haven't heard too much more than that. What's notable though is, that would have been a nice little stretch of property on that road, right in the curve of the bay. I'm wondering if he wanted to buy it, but couldn't afford it, because he was already overextended or tapped out, which makes me question even more just really how wealthy he really was, as everyone said or thought he was, and we have no way of knowing to confirm any of that yet. But, if he was financially overextended: think about the real estate portfolio he held both in Portapique and in Dartmouth, plus overhead for two denture clinics, etc., etc., (don't forget the toys/motorbikes and the decommissioned police cars, extensive cottage renovations -- all adds up). Add to the mix: people said, he was "paranoid" and "paranoid about the pandemic", so, he may have been extremely stressed out, and no longer in his known (controlled) routine, because he had to shutter his clinics, and he had now "lost control" of "earning income" to pay his bills. Remember too: no one really has been given or has a definitive answer as to how long this pandemic may last for, and we've seen the media reports say anywhere from 18 months to two years. I'd say that put him on edge, and it probably didn't take very much to push him over the edge, when you factor in that his anger and violence and ugly side came out more when he was fueled by alcohol. Just how much was he drinking now, while he was sitting at home because of this pandemic?
Paranoid: N.S. mass shooting: Documents show killer was ‘paranoid’ about COVID-19 pandemic before rampage
I also personally don't buy into that this was "planned" even though he purchased 800 gallons of gasoline. I attribute that to his being paranoid, and we know gas prices dropped considerably, and in Nova Scotia as well. Someone like him who is considered "off" in many ways by others to begin with, and with obviously different thinking of some kind, and who might likely now also be worried about finances and expenses going forward (don't forget he commuted from Portapique to his clinics), could very easily have thought to stock up on gas while prices dropped and it was cheaper before there's either a scarcity or prices do a 180 and go back up again, or even higher. Not a real stretch when you consider "normal people" went crazy for toilet paper and sanitizer. As for the propane bottle purchases too, I don't know what to make of that, other than that they could have been for some other intended use.
Of course, Brenda also said in an interview she gave that she believes GW went to that home because of her, and she wishes she had said something to (warn) the new home buyers.
2013 Year Building Permits (do a search for George Forbes), and you will find he applied on May 29, 2013 for a $20K addition for his property on Portapique Beach Road. The address number isn't given, but you will note there is what is called a PID number: (Premises Identification Number) 20330650
Link: https://www.colchester.ca/building-permit-statistics-2013/915-2013-yearly-building-permit-list/file
That same PID number also shows up on and corresponds with the sales history records at Viewpoint Realty for 293 Portapique Beach Road.
Link: https://www.viewpoint.ca/cutsheet/201601388/1?fbclid=IwAR3nLEAg0o7e6YDEO4R91hw6KNwREP50Op1XHbswDQoNptks9e-Q8clw1vY
Link should take you to the main sales history page (image should be there when you open the link, and if not, then you need to sign up for a free account first.)
It shows the PID number on the bottom left-hand side matches: Listing ID: 201601388 PID 20330650 [R]
From what I can see, it's one of the more expensive properties on the road that's been for sale, and is probably more prime real estate because it's just down the road from what was GW's property, and both properties back out right onto the bay. The pictures from the sales history (click on the little notepad to the left once you open up the actual sales history) show a pretty idyllic setting for retirement and to leave that behind, Brenda and her husband had to have been very frightened to want to sell "and get out of the area". Brenda did say it took a while to sell (showing 292 days on the market in 2015 and then expired, and then 288 days on the market in 2016 before it sold). Like Brenda said, they took a loss on it -- initial listing price was at $350K, down to $250K, and it sold for $240K
I used the measuring tool on the map following the roadway, and it is approximately 463 yards (converted from metres) from 200 Portapique Beach Road to 293 Portapique Beach Road. To give more perspective, 500 yards is just over a 1/4 mile.
Links to Brenda Forbes articles (one audio, one video):
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappen...says-she-was-scared-to-death-of-him-1.5567781
Nova Scotia gunman’s ex-neighbour says she tried to stop him earlier | Watch News Videos Online
I also wondered and speculated myself if GW was interested in that property for himself, and would be a reason that he visited the "Zahl" home and set fire to it. He also owned the property between 200 and 293 Portapique Beach Road -- number 287. Neighbours had indicated he had showed interest in buying other properties, but I haven't heard too much more than that. What's notable though is, that would have been a nice little stretch of property on that road, right in the curve of the bay. I'm wondering if he wanted to buy it, but couldn't afford it, because he was already overextended or tapped out, which makes me question even more just really how wealthy he really was, as everyone said or thought he was, and we have no way of knowing to confirm any of that yet. But, if he was financially overextended: think about the real estate portfolio he held both in Portapique and in Dartmouth, plus overhead for two denture clinics, etc., etc., (don't forget the toys/motorbikes and the decommissioned police cars, extensive cottage renovations -- all adds up). Add to the mix: people said, he was "paranoid" and "paranoid about the pandemic", so, he may have been extremely stressed out, and no longer in his known (controlled) routine, because he had to shutter his clinics, and he had now "lost control" of "earning income" to pay his bills. Remember too: no one really has been given or has a definitive answer as to how long this pandemic may last for, and we've seen the media reports say anywhere from 18 months to two years. I'd say that put him on edge, and it probably didn't take very much to push him over the edge, when you factor in that his anger and violence and ugly side came out more when he was fueled by alcohol. Just how much was he drinking now, while he was sitting at home because of this pandemic?
Paranoid: N.S. mass shooting: Documents show killer was ‘paranoid’ about COVID-19 pandemic before rampage
I also personally don't buy into that this was "planned" even though he purchased 800 gallons of gasoline. I attribute that to his being paranoid, and we know gas prices dropped considerably, and in Nova Scotia as well. Someone like him who is considered "off" in many ways by others to begin with, and with obviously different thinking of some kind, and who might likely now also be worried about finances and expenses going forward (don't forget he commuted from Portapique to his clinics), could very easily have thought to stock up on gas while prices dropped and it was cheaper before there's either a scarcity or prices do a 180 and go back up again, or even higher. Not a real stretch when you consider "normal people" went crazy for toilet paper and sanitizer. As for the propane bottle purchases too, I don't know what to make of that, other than that they could have been for some other intended use.
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Just owning a few properties and regular people think someone’s a millionaire. In Toronto, but not in Portapique. Plus, didn’t his “abusive” parents share title? Sounds like they helped him out financially for some strange reason.
Nobody needs $800 worth of gas to set a few fires. He would need a tanker truck to tow it around N.S.
I have to disagree with you about planning. Canada is not like the US. Most people do not have, and do not want guns. As for gun owners, criminals have guns, and farmers, hunters, police have guns. (I have a rifle because I have horses, and the vet's too far away in an emergency like a broken leg)
I've spent 45 years in NS, and not one person I know has an assault type rifle. You don't buy one of those unless you plan one day to use it. It's not something you proudly hang on your wall. Not in Canada and certainly not in rural NS. Unless you want to intimidate people. You might have one to prove to your neighbours you truly are "nuts", and that should keep them off your property in the night time. They aren't allowed on shooting ranges, and guaranteed if I heard someone shooting an assault style weapon, I'd be on the horn to the cops, forthwith. Most people around here would. This isn't the world of Tiger King.
I do believe that he collected grievances or wounds, and he took that out not just on people, but also on their homes. Homes became"If I can't have it, neither can anyone else" type mentality. If his common law GF was on the loose, and he's hateful enough, he'd burn his house so she wouldn't have it after he died. He couldn't have thought this would end any other way, than suicide by cop. Justin Bourke, from Moncton, killed 3 cops and wounded 2 others. This guy's from the same city, Moncton (or Riverview specifically) I think he was inspired by him, and planned to make this bigger than what Bourke did. I'm 5 years older than GW, and remember vividly in 1974 when two police were kidnapped and murdered in Moncton. He may have too, having family in the force.
Buying a lot of low cost gas isn't that unusual. A couple years back we went into the Canada Day weekend paying 1.50+ per litre. 2 months ago, it was down to 65-ish cents a litre. I asked my husband if we could fill a couple 40 gallon barrels, we didn't because all we have is a generator, and gas has a finite lifespan.
No, I think he was simply a stone cold psychopath, and he chose to go on that rampage, knowing how it would end. I hope the GF comes out eventually and tells our province what really happened. It's something that only she can tell.
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His parents may have been on title for estate planning reasons, possibly to prevent a claim on assets to prevent a claim from the girlfriend. Merely being on title doesn't mean they had an actual equitable interest.
Not much information was released today to Halifax Examiner, who joined with other news outlet's to have info. and warrants made public.
I am not allowed to link it, but if you do a search for Halifax Examiner, the new info is there, article is named (slightly salaciously)
Here’s what the RCMP doesn’t want you to know about the mass murder investigation
I am not allowed to link it, but if you do a search for Halifax Examiner, the new info is there, article is named (slightly salaciously)
Here’s what the RCMP doesn’t want you to know about the mass murder investigation
MistyWaters
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Just curious, in that you don’t believe this massacre was preplanned in any way, what do you make of this statement below and the fact that he was wearing a police uniform driving a replica police car? And if he thought he was “better”, why would he choose suicide by cop? Wouldn’t that be like allowing the inferior to win and admit defeat?
“The document said one witness told police Wortman "wasn't a police officer wannabe and didn't like police officers and thought he was better than them."...”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/mass-killing-nova-scotia-search-warrant-1.5575059
Rather than instigating a showdown with the RCMP in Portapique, he fled and then committed even more killings. There surely was planning involved in that. Then after swapping vehicles twice he didn’t expect he’d be spotted at the gas station so that wasn’t a true suicide by cop scenario as he was shot to death due to the fact he was known to be armed and highly dangerous. Personally I don’t see similarities to the Moncton shooter or this being a copycat crime. Whoever the witness was who said he thought he was “better”....seems to me he also thought he was far smarter than police and intended on outwitting them by his fabricated persona as an unidentified police officer.
It will be interesting if we learn what the common law wife has to say however I don’t expect she was aware of any of his intentions, one way or another, to cause the deaths of so many innocent people. For her sake, for her mental well-being, I sure hope not. That’s be a real heavy burden for anyone to bear IMO.
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tayaway
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Just like in America, Canada deals with incels, mass murderers, serial killers, gangs, drug wars, ... There are approximately 34.7 guns for every 100 Canadians. There are over 80,000 M16/AR-15 type rifles in Canada, not to mention tens of thousands of similar firearms. I grew up with rifles on the wall in our home. To own something akin to an AR-15 is a status symbol, yes, even here in Canada. There is a sizable Canadian subculture that buy handguns and semi-automatic rifles. Over 2 million Canadians hold their PAL and certifications are increasing yearly. What are the numbers on gun owners with lapsed permits? How many more, like the killer, aren't licenced, but still own a variety of guns?
Canada is like the US; most gun owners are law abiding, but a percentage is out there, killing people with handguns and semi-automatics, as GW showed us in April.
Considering he would have been the one to put them on title, that isn’t an option.
Oscarjackson12
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No I was responding to someone else.
I THOUGHT I was replying to the person who thought it wasn't planned. I KNOW (in my heart) he planned it. Probably for years. Well thought out. Sorry, I completely quoted the wrong post! (Edited X2.)
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MistyWaters
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Okay thanks, my apologies for misunderstanding, I agree.
MistyWaters
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You wrote - “Yes you were right about it not being the girlfriend and it was someone who had worked with him.” as if you know for a fact this was not the girlfriend who gave that information in the interview (even though she also worked with him).
What is your source....or is this your opinion?
I know many....SHTF prepper types are on the "have lots of firearms" bandwagon. There's a Canadian guy on youtube who both seems to really dislike women in general, and is big time into prepping. While 1/2 his info. is decent, the rest is misogynistic and sets my teeth on edge. So, I do get there's a sub culture, from gun enthusiasts to the psychotic.
I just...didn't think it was in my back yard.
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