CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #3

[deugirtni]

RCMP Const. Heidi Stevenson was a ‘symbol of everything good’

TD “Eddie” Edison was a long-time friend of RCMP Const. Heidi Stevenson, who was killed by the Nova Scotia gunman on April 19, 2020. Eddie says she has concerns about the RCMP’s ability to protect officers after Stevenson’s death. The RCMP did not answer questions about Eddie’s concerns.

RCMP Const. Heidi Stevenson was a ‘symbol of everything good’ | Watch News Videos Online
-----------------
Head of RCMP union says officers in N.S. capable of protecting citizens

Brian Sauve, head of the National Police Federation, says there are roughly 1,000 RCMP officers in Nova Scotia capable of protecting the public. He says Canadians are made safer by the RCMP.

Head of RCMP union says officers in N.S. capable of protecting citizens | Watch News Videos Online

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I am not trying to stir the pot here, but this is something I find interesting. LB and two others are charged with unlawfully transferring ammunition to the shooter. The police have stated that she (and the other two accused) had no knowledge of his intentions. That is probably true. But, how did the police arrive at that conclusion? Because the three accused said so? I'd like to know how that detail is now "fact".
I am not trying to dump on any of the 3 accused by any means, but I am curious as to how their denial is now "fact". Again, there must be info the public is not aware of guiding this process.

I believe she was abused, based on all of the statements, and his proven behaviour.

But I’ll have trouble accepting her statements as fact if she is proven guilty of transferring ammunition to the killer. The same with the two other accused.

Three guns from Maine illegally acquired...I’d have trouble with the statements from the people involved with how that happened as well. My opinion only.

I’m struggling to understand where Banfield thought all of these preparations, including the very last details of his fake RCMP items, were leading to.

 

[LadyL]

Banfield was one of three people charged in December with unlawfully transferring ammunition to the killer before the mass killing on April 18-19, 2020.

The same charge was laid against Banfield's sister, Lisa, who was the spouse of the killer, and her brother-in-law, Brian Brewster.

Man pleads not guilty to supplying ammunition in Nova Scotia mass shooting case

 

[MistyWaters]

The aftermath of this tragedy continues to frustrate the families. In hindsight, I’ve wondered if it would’ve been better to allow the RCMP to release their final report and if that wasn’t satisfactory, then request a public inquest. I have a feeling an inquest won’t achieve what the families hoped for when it eventually takes place.

Trust issues persist between authorities and families of N.S. massacre victims

“The federal and Nova Scotia governments have established a public inquiry, headed by a mass casualty commission.

The commission is assigned to investigate a wide range of questions, including why the massacre happened and how police responded. The commission says its final report, due in November of next year, will include recommendations for preventing anything similar from happening again.

For families, who were forced to protest in the streets for a full public inquiry, trusting the process is a big leap of faith. They want more information, including details of the alleged role of the gunman’s partner, Lisa Banfield, in supplying him with ammunition. Police say Banfield and two others facing charges had no prior knowledge of the killer’s plans.

“My trust in the inquiry and my trust in the RCMP as a whole, there’s none,” says Farrington, echoing the sentiment of several other families Global News has spoken to......”

 

[Panniniclaus]

I had put down the 13 hours podcast for a couple of months and picked it back up again over the last couple of days.

Too much focus is on Banfield and perhaps that's because she's the one alive... She was getting away from him and he went on a rampage without her...he wasn't waiting around to see if he could collect her in a Bonnie and Clyde spree... his plans after Portapique certainly didn't include her..

Does it matter if she was in a garage, in a tree cavity or in a tree house? She was not part of his killing spree.

If she purchased ammo, let the courts decide her fate. It's pretty easy to imagine the entire family would be on edge around Wortman and figured they better comply lest they feel his wrath..hell the RCMP knew Wortman had weapons etc and they did not act.

My focus unfortunately is on the RCMP. I say unfortunately as i have RCMP members i consider friends... I feel if we gathered up a few regular posters here we would have made some better decisions that night. Calling for more resources and getting as much communication on as many mediums as possible would have been a priority.. Don't worry about panic... way too much weight was given to panic... let people panic and overreact.

The inability to use google maps, the inability to use the proper radio channels (Wortman had a replica car and was very likely on their communications)...the inability to put together some second and third level roadblocks in key areas... the keystone cop display at Onslow fire department... the RCMP have so much work to do to restore faith... Lisa Banfield is no more than a footnote when compared to what the RCMP did during those 13 hours.

 

[tayaway]

I had put down the 13 hours podcast for a couple of months and picked it back up again over the last couple of days.

Too much focus is on Banfield and perhaps that's because she's the one alive... She was getting away from him and he went on a rampage without her...he wasn't waiting around to see if he could collect her in a Bonnie and Clyde spree... his plans after Portapique certainly didn't include her..

Does it matter if she was in a garage, in a tree cavity or in a tree house? She was not part of his killing spree.

If she purchased ammo, let the courts decide her fate. It's pretty easy to imagine the entire family would be on edge around Wortman and figured they better comply lest they feel his wrath..hell the RCMP knew Wortman had weapons etc and they did not act.

My focus unfortunately is on the RCMP. I say unfortunately as i have RCMP members i consider friends... I feel if we gathered up a few regular posters here we would have made some better decisions that night. Calling for more resources and getting as much communication on as many mediums as possible would have been a priority.. Don't worry about panic... way too much weight was given to panic... let people panic and overreact.

The inability to use google maps, the inability to use the proper radio channels (Wortman had a replica car and was very likely on their communications)...the inability to put together some second and third level roadblocks in key areas... the keystone cop display at Onslow fire department... the RCMP have so much work to do to restore faith... Lisa Banfield is no more than a footnote when compared to what the RCMP did during those 13 hours.

My son and I listened to the 13 hours podcast over the weekend. It seemed like the whole community walked on eggshells around GW. LB factors in the coverage since the majority of mass shooters/spree killers are abusive with their partners. Like GW's abusive childhood, it's a major element in this case.

The RCMP, who answer to who? Red flags? Family and friends complaints? Google Maps? GPS? Local people? The RCMP reminded me too of the Keystone Cops or as a team instructed to purposely sabotage their own efforts, as if GW was part of some bigger case they were working. Then there is the gov't, which is supposed to represent the people, not private interests, but hey, you don't want a real inquiry into it, do you? Also, we'll just hold that behind closed doors.

How about the LE's close lipped approach to this case, even though GW is dead? His 'dear friend,' lawyer, Tom Evans, who'd been charged with sexual assault of an underaged boy after previously been found guilty of plying a different underaged boy with liquor. This 'friend' defended a Colombian drug cartel client in a case involving a plane crash carrying 250 mil street value worth of drugs which today works out to about 450 mil. GW himself spent years smuggling smokes across the Can-Am border. Did he just one day stop to work as an average denturist who just also happened to be a millionaire? Maybe GW was a bit player in something bigger that the RCMP was investigating?

IMO, this series validated my own criticisms of the RCMP. May the families and friends of the victims somehow get the answers they're looking for.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don’t blame LB, nor the RCMP. I place 100% if the blame on the shooter. Had this incident happened rural anywhere, the tragic outcome would’ve been the same.

It’s a good thing there’s no means of comparison - a rogue police cruiser, fake uniform, raging residential property fires, preparation, stockpiling and planning at the hands of a lunatic who believed in crazy conspiracy theories. Every aspect of this horrendous tragedy was unique.

The question going forward is do we want legislation that would’ve gotten this guy committed to an insane asylum based on his prior psychotic behaviours and beliefs as everything we know about him says he was not “normal”. Probably not, easier to blame police even though we know he was out to kill them too. IMO had he been committed for life would’ve been the only action that would’ve prevented this senseless death of innocent people.

JMO

 

[tayaway]

I don’t blame LB, nor the RCMP. I place 100% if the blame on the shooter. Had this incident happened rural anywhere, the tragic outcome would’ve been the same.

It’s a good thing there’s no means of comparison - a rogue police cruiser, fake uniform, raging residential property fires, preparation, stockpiling and planning at the hands of a lunatic who believed in crazy conspiracy theories. Every aspect of this horrendous tragedy was unique.

The question going forward is do we want legislation that would’ve gotten this guy committed to an insane asylum based on his prior psychotic behaviours and beliefs as everything we know about him says he was not “normal”. Probably not, easier to blame police even though we know he was out to kill them too. IMO had he been committed for life would’ve been the only action that would’ve prevented this senseless death of innocent people.

JMO

Did you listen to the 13 hours podcast?

Nobody is blaming the RCMP for the killings. Yes, obviously, GW is responsible for his actions and those deaths and injuries. The RCMP are responsible for how they handled the case as it went down. Some of the families of victims agree that they botched it and have filed a class-action lawsuit against the RCMP. See CBC for more info. Yes, change the system to pay attention to domestic abuse and red flags and please please, get rid of systemic white male privilege.

Let's hold RCMP accountable for their negligence in factors like lack of communication with their own officers, other LE, and the public. Rural area and the RCMP are lost? Call the local effing emergency responders for help. It took a bloody hospital call for one LE dept in the district to find out that somebody had been shot in Portapique. Many of the survivors, former and current RCMP personnel, local first responders, academic experts, news reporters and outlets, nobodies on here, etc... are questioning how the RCMP handled it. Yes, blame GW for the massacre, but do not use him as a scapegoat for the botched RCMP response.

 

[MistyWaters]

Did you listen to the 13 hours podcast?

Nobody is blaming the RCMP for the killings. Yes, obviously, GW is responsible for his actions and those deaths and injuries. The RCMP are responsible for how they handled the case as it went down. Some of the families of victims agree that they botched it and have filed a class-action lawsuit against the RCMP. See CTV for more info. Yes, change the system to pay attention to domestic abuse and red flags and please please, get rid of systemic white male privilege.

Let's hold RCMP accountable for their negligence in factors like lack of communication with their own officers, other LE, and the public. Rural area and the RCMP are lost? Call the local effing emergency responders for help. It took a bloody hospital call for one LE dept in the district to find out that somebody had been shot in Portapique. Many of the survivors, former and current RCMP personnel, local first responders, academic experts, news reporters and outlets, nobodies on here, etc... are questioning how the RCMP handled it. Yes, blame GW for the massacre, but do not use him as a scapegoat for the botched RCMP response.

No I didn’t listen to the podcast. Yes I’m aware some of the families blame the RCMP. Unfortunately the lawsuit won’t bring back their loved ones. It must’ve been a totally horrific day for everyone involved including the responding officers who also lost one of their own.

 

[tayaway]

No I didn’t listen to the podcast. Yes I’m aware some of the families blame the RCMP. Unfortunately the lawsuit won’t bring back their loved ones. It must’ve been a totally horrific day for everyone involved including the responding officers who also lost one of their own.

Why didn't you listen to it? Those families are not blaming the RCMP, they are criticizing the way the RCMP handled it. Did you check out my CBC link, that talks about that? ETA: The lawsuit will hopefully change how the RCMP deals with such cases in the future.

 

[Panniniclaus]

Misty I can't put much on the RCMP for the murders and fires in Portapique... There was too much chaos to know what was actually happening and little time to make a difference.

Their communications (this is broad and borders on gross negligence), inability to get resources and get those resources in the right places, lack of basic commons sense responses... etc. Anything that happened outside Portapique could have been prevented with some very basic and common sense police work..

I'm not done with the podcast yet..... it's a tough listen...

 

[MistyWaters]

Misty I can't put much on the RCMP for the murders and fires in Portapique... There was too much chaos to know what was actually happening and little time to make a difference.

Their communications (this is broad and borders on gross negligence), inability to get resources and get those resources in the right places, lack of basic commons sense responses... etc. Anything that happened outside Portapique could have been prevented with some very basic and common sense police work..

I'm not done with the podcast yet..... it's a tough listen...

My thinking is “the RCMP” is simply an entity. A lot of different decisions were made by individual members of the RCMP during the chaos throughout those two days. No doubt there were many brave officers who risked their lives in tracking this killer as well and of course one lost her life. It was also a tactical squad officer who shot the killer dead.

But by “blaming the RCMP”, that tars every single officer involved with the same brush of incompetence which I think is sort of thanklessly sad because the majority of them weren’t responsible for decision-making. It must’ve been a horrible experience for those officers directly involved, now faced with ongoing criticism. It’s probably no wonder the RCMP has a difficult time recruiting, rarely are they portrayed as heroes. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

N.S. mass murderer's spouse pleads not guilty to supplying him with ammunition

Police have said she had 'no prior knowledge' of what Gabriel Wortman would eventually do with the ammunition

She is facing two charges of unlawfully transferring to Wortman cartridges for two kinds of guns in the month leading up to the April 18-19 killing spree. Police have said she had “no prior knowledge” of what he would eventually do with the ammunition.
....
Lisa Banfield’s counsel Wednesday was Jessica Zita, who said she anticipated being part of the defence team at trial, with colleague James Lockyer. Lockyer is among Canada’s best-known criminal lawyers, with long experience representing wrongfully accused and wrongfully convicted people at appeals and retrials.

N.S. mass murderer's spouse pleads not guilty to supplying him with ammunition | National Post

 

[MistyWaters]

Nova Scotia mass shooter obsessed by spectre of pandemic disaster, violence
…”In one of the court documents released, Ontario lawyer Kevin Von Bargen told police he was a friend of Gabriel Wortman's and that shortly after the pandemic started in Nova Scotia, the killer became "convinced that the world economy was going to collapse."

The documents refer to an email Wortman sent Von Bargen on March 18, exactly one month before he began his rampage. As described by police in a document to obtain a warrant, the killer told Von Bargen he was "getting a bunch of ammunition because when the government stops handing out money people will be desperate and will start to steal, rob and pilfer from people."

Wortman told his friend "it was going to be worse than the depression because there was no way to stop the sickness (COVID-19) and it was like a forest fire," the document says. In a summary of a March 19 email to an unnamed person, the gunman is quoted as writing, "Thank God we are well armed."

Wortman's spouse, Lisa Banfield, even told police that the killer had bought up large quantities of rice and other food. She said he was "paranoid" that the federal government was going to seize people's money in exchange for shares of some sort.…..

…..In describing her spouse's attitude in the final weeks before the massacre, Banfield told police, "It was like he was preparing for the end of the world."..”

*****

If GW was crazy enough to believe some sort of government-initiated apocalypse was about to occur, I can think of a couple reasons the timing may’ve been part of his motivation for his killing spree -
- he thought his victims were evil govt agents. To a deeply schizophrenic mind could be something as simple as the colour of their clothing or vehicle or body language could’ve made him believe he was being spied on. So rather than waiting, he believed he was taking action to help protect himself and others from impending doom.
- or as the world was coming to an end anyway, this was his opportunity to act out a longterm fantasy of his, dressed as a cop and shooting as many innocent victims as possible.

Although I’m not holding my breathe, I’d like to see recommendations for involuntary confinement come from the Public Inquiry so nobody would ever be left with the feeling of hopelessness, dread or fear if they believe someone they know is a ticking time bomb. However that’s probably not going to happen as it contravenes Canada’s Charter guaranteeing our Freedom of Expression.

JMO

 

[tayaway]

Nova Scotia mass shooter obsessed by spectre of pandemic disaster, violence

…..In describing her spouse's attitude in the final weeks before the massacre, Banfield told police, "It was like he was preparing for the end of the world."..”

*****

If GW was crazy enough to believe some sort of government-initiated apocalypse was about to occur, I can think of a couple reasons the timing may’ve been part of his motivation for his killing spree -
- he thought his victims were evil govt agents. To a deeply schizophrenic mind could be something as simple as the colour of their clothing or vehicle or body language could’ve made him believe he was being spied on.

Although I’m not holding my breathe, I’d like to see recommendations for involuntary confinement come from the Public Inquiry so nobody would ever be left with the feeling of hopelessness, dread or fear if they believe someone they know is a ticking time bomb. However that’s probably not going to happen as it contravenes Canada’s Charter guaranteeing our Freedom of Expression.

JMO

SBM

There are a ton of people out there that believe in such conspiracies. It's a thriving subculture. Most simply don't take it to such a violent end. Has he been diagnosed as schizophrenic? IMO, the key to preventing these tragedies is education, to teach people how to deal with fringe conspiracists who show red flags that may lead to tragedy. We have to remember that in this specific case, his gf was a domestic abuse survivor. Did she feel secure enough to alert authorities or his doctor before this happened? Did she know what her options were? Canada already has laws that cover involuntary hospitalization.

 

[MistyWaters]

SBM

There are a ton of people out there that believe in such conspiracies. It's a thriving subculture. Most simply don't take it to such a violent end. Has he been diagnosed as schizophrenic? IMO, the key to preventing these tragedies is education, to teach people how to deal with fringe conspiracists who show red flags that may lead to tragedy. We have to remember that in this specific case, his gf was a domestic abuse survivor. Did she feel secure enough to alert authorities or his doctor before this happened? Did she know what her options were? Canada already has laws that cover involuntary hospitalization.

It’s never been reported he’d voluntarily sought mental health treatment at all and that’s not surprising considering what he apparently believed. Locking up people like him for short jail stints is rarely the solution to mental illness. Often domestic violence sentencing only involves a slap on the wrist, a restraining order and an anger management course.

What laws are you referring to? My understanding is unless a person poses a threat to themselves or others, we don’t have involuntarily hospitalization. That’s the gap IMO. While the Baker Act was passed in Florida, Baker Acting has become an American term for involuntary committing someone for mental treatment, but nothing is comparable in Canada. This issue has arisen just recently, for example in the missing person case of MT in Hamilton. I can also think of deGroot who murdered 5 friends in Calgary, same thing, parents knew something was terrible wrong but had no proof he posed a threat until after he committed the senseless murders.

JMO

 

[tayaway]

It’s never been reported he’d voluntarily sought mental health treatment at all and that’s not surprising considering what he apparently believed. Locking up people like him for short jail stints is rarely the solution either.

What laws are you referring to? My understanding is unless a person poses a threat to themselves or others, we don’t have involuntarily hospitalization. That’s the gap IMO. While the Baker Act was passed in Florida, Baker Acting has become an American term for involuntary committing someone for mental treatment, but nothing is comparable in Canada. This issue has arisen just recently, for example in the missing person case of MT in Hamilton. I can think of deGroot who murdered 5 friends in Calgary, same thing, parents knew something was terrible wrong but had no proof he posed a threat until after he committed the senseless murders.

JMO

I included a link to the laws for each province. Here it is again. Clearly, GW's frame of mind was deteriorating in the last month and his doctor could've admitted him for evaluation.

 

[MistyWaters]

Involuntary hospital admission of mentally ill people and length of stay - FREE Legal Information | Legal Line
“Generally, there are two ways for someone to end up in a mental health care or psychiatric facility — voluntarily or involuntarily…..”

Involuntary admission
Generally, most provincial Mental Health Acts cite two common reasons that a person may be held as an involuntary patient:

1. The person is a danger to themselves, another person, or may unintentionally injure themselves, or
2. The person’s condition is deteriorating and they require hospitalization.

More at the link, but I’m certain believing in conspiracy theories would not qualify, in that he believed he was to become a victim of a conspiring govt. Because on the surface he appeared to be mentally functional….ie as opposed someone having a mental breakdown that clearly requires treatment.

 

[tayaway]

Involuntary hospital admission of mentally ill people and length of stay - FREE Legal Information | Legal Line
“Generally, there are two ways for someone to end up in a mental health care or psychiatric facility — voluntarily or involuntarily…..”

Involuntary admission
Generally, most provincial Mental Health Acts cite two common reasons that a person may be held as an involuntary patient:

1. The person is a danger to themselves, another person, or may unintentionally injure themselves, or
2. The person’s condition is deteriorating and they require hospitalization.

More at the link, but I’m certain believing in conspiracy theories would not qualify, in that he believed he was to become a victim of a conspiring govt. Because on the surface he appeared to be fully mentally functional.

Buying ammo, gasoline, pulling money out of the bank. Those actions are signs that he was deteriorating.

 

[MistyWaters]

Buying ammo, gasoline, pulling money out of the bank. Those actions are signs that he was deteriorating.

I’m certain mental deterioration would consist of something far more than stockpiling or withdrawing cash - specifically involving the lack of mental ability to function on a day-to-day basis, thereby requiring hospitalization. Otherwise you probably remember the empty grocery store shelves during the early days of Covid? Banks reported a rush on cash as well. Imagine the uproar if headlines forewarned people they could be committed to mental institutions for taking such action!

His beliefs weren’t dangerous if he’d eventually realized doom was only in his head - but to my earlier point he didn’t do that, he possibly took it one step further because it sure seems to be there was a connection considering the timing. IMO it was a red flag that even those closest to him would’ve been powerless over. The respective perpetrator of Fredericton shooting and the LV shooting believed in conspiracy theories as well. I wonder how common is this element in other mass shootings although I’ve distinctly noticed statistics don’t seem to be published.

JMO