CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #3

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tayaway said:
Why can't we create a balanced system? As a society, although we have a long way to go, we are getting better at recognizing and assisting with mental illness.
Click to expand...

JMO I don’t think police watching over us will ever prove to be a workable solution in a democratic society and we surely don’t want them to only shoot first and ask questions later. Too often it’s easy for all of us to think we’ve done our duty, our hands are washed if it, not our problem anymore, let the police handle it. If there’s ever a step forward it would be for everyone to pay closer attention to what’s going on with the people who are in our lives IMO. People are becoming more distant to each other than ever before, often neighbours don’t know who it is who lives beside them.

I just can’t believe other than the few incidents that were reported in the media this guy was squeaky clean 100% the rest of the time in the recent past. The one person we haven’t heard from is the common law spouse who was in the centre of his life. How come nobody pulled her aside out of concern for either her or maybe even his well-being? If they did we don’t know. We can’t erase this disaster but goodness sakes, if people close to him didn’t see any indication of this coming why do we expect that police could’ve known?

But regardless, this story is like a 500 piece jigsaw puzzle and we have hardly any of the pieces so we don’t have any idea what it will look like when it’s finished. At the end of the day there will still be missing pieces because the perpetrator isn’t alive to give us the full picture.

Anger and blame is a natural part of the grieving process and I’m glad the media is allowing the relatives of the deceased to be heard because it’s healthy for them to be allowed to speak out.....although I also think of Const Stevenson’s family amidst the heavy criticism of the police, how tough it must be on them.

JMO
 
tayaway said:
Why can't we create a balanced system? As a society, although we have a long way to go, we are getting better at recognizing and assisting with mental illness.
Click to expand...

JMO I don’t think police watching over us will ever prove to be a workable solution in a democratic society and we surely don’t want them to only shoot first and ask questions later. Too often it’s easy for all of us to think we’ve done our duty, our hands are washed if it, not our problem anymore, let the police handle it. If there’s ever a step forward it would be for everyone to pay closer attention to what’s going on with the people who are in our lives IMO. People are becoming more distant to each other than ever before, often neighbours don’t know who it is who lives beside them.

I just can’t believe other than the few incidents that were reported in the media this guy was squeaky clean 100% the rest of the time in the recent past. The one person we haven’t heard from is the common law spouse who was in the centre of his life. How come nobody pulled her aside out of concern for either her or maybe even his well-being? If they did we don’t know. We can’t erase this disaster but goodness sakes, if people close to him didn’t see any indication of this coming why do we expect that police could’ve known?

But regardless, this story is like a 500 piece jigsaw puzzle and we have hardly any of the pieces so we don’t have any idea what it will look like when it’s finished. At the end of the day there will still be missing pieces because the perpetrator isn’t alive to give us the full picture.

Anger and blame is a natural part of the grieving process and I’m glad the media is allowing the relatives of the deceased to be heard because it’s healthy for them to be allowed to speak out.....although I also think of Const Stevenson’s family amidst the heavy criticism of the police. And the keen tactical squad member who put the perp out of his misery, plus all the other members of various police departments who willingly risked their lives during that horrible weekend. It truly must seem a thankless job at times yet carries heavy responsibility.

JMO
 
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It is an incredibly difficult situation in so many ways. Could the police have handled the situation differently/better? Probably. But then, as stated above, you think of Stevenson's family amidst criticism of police.....or Morrison who was shot while doing his duty.
I do hope the families get answers soon......
 
MistyWaters said:
JMO I don’t think police watching over us will ever prove to be a workable solution in a democratic society and we surely don’t want them to only shoot first and ask questions later. Too often it’s easy for all of us to think we’ve done our duty, our hands are washed if it, not our problem anymore, let the police handle it. If there’s ever a step forward it would be for everyone to pay closer attention to what’s going on with the people who are in our lives IMO. People are becoming more distant to each other than ever before, often neighbours don’t know who it is who lives beside them.

I just can’t believe other than the few incidents that were reported in the media this guy was squeaky clean 100% the rest of the time in the recent past. The one person we haven’t heard from is the common law spouse who was in the centre of his life. How come nobody pulled her aside out of concern for either her or maybe even his well-being? If they did we don’t know. We can’t erase this disaster but goodness sakes, if people close to him didn’t see any indication of this coming why do we expect that police could’ve known?

But regardless, this story is like a 500 piece jigsaw puzzle and we have hardly any of the pieces so we don’t have any idea what it will look like when it’s finished. At the end of the day there will still be missing pieces because the perpetrator isn’t alive to give us the full picture.

Anger and blame is a natural part of the grieving process and I’m glad the media is allowing the relatives of the deceased to be heard because it’s healthy for them to be allowed to speak out.....although I also think of Const Stevenson’s family amidst the heavy criticism of the police. And the keen tactical squad member who put the perp out of his misery, plus all the other members of various police departments who willingly risked their lives during that horrible weekend. It truly must seem a thankless job at times yet carries heavy responsibility.

JMO
Click to expand...

By balance, I'm talking about community involvement like social programs and education to assist people, not police surveillance.
 
tayaway said:
By balance, I'm talking about community involvement like social programs and education to assist people, not police surveillance.
Click to expand...

The person has to ultimately be responsible for seeking help though. You can’t force a person to seek help with mental illness. But I doubt anyone ever suspected he was capable of this.
 
Oscarjackson12 said:
The person has to ultimately be responsible for seeking help though. You can’t force a person to seek help with mental illness. But I doubt anyone ever suspected he was capable of this.
Click to expand...

I agree.

The red flags may not have surprised anyone had he murdered his common law wife and then shot himself in the head. But as far as what we know so far, absolutely nothing stands out about him nor his lifestyle to indicate it was inevitable that he was about to commit violent killings of such a great magnitude.

It seems to me he was far too cunning and sly to have been concerned about mental health treatment. I’m certain he was a psychopath, my unprofessional opinion only but the god-like complex certainly fits what we know.

https://www.newsweek.com/psychopath-god-complex-812746
“If you don't show them the respect they think they deserve, you may see that mask slip. They will show flashes of anger, as if they want to go for you, until they can get their frustration in check and their mask back in place. It's in those moments that you see the cold-blooded animal within......

......Psychopaths enjoy the power they feel knowing so many lives and people's futures are in their hands. It's the God complex—a psychological fantasy when someone perceives themselves as superior in every way to everyone else, and rules are for mere mortals....”
 
paganini said:
Nova Scotia RCMP release terrifying timeline of 13-hour shooting rampage
Click to expand...
In that article linked above, where it shows that photo of the eight dots, the inscription on the photo suggests those are the locations of 'shootings' that night, but not necessarily 'deceased'? It says: "A look at where the shootings happened in Portapique, N.S. on the evening of April 18, 2020."

Elsewhere, the article also stated:

In total, 13 people were killed in the Portapique area, according to police.

“In total, there were over seven locations where people were found deceased,” Campbell told reporters. “Many of the deceased were discovered when responding members were checking homes and/or for suspects.”

First sentence is saying 13 killed in Portapique area, but is not a direct quote.

The second sentence, which is a direct quote, is saying there were "over seven locations where people were found deceased" - but it doesn't seem to follow along that the quoted source is necessarily speaking about only the victims in Portapique - because that person is saying 'in total', which could mean 'all' of the locations where people were deceased? If we think about all the locations where people were found deceased, and there being over seven locations:
i)Portapique victims (13)
ii)Gina's home
iii)VON #1
iv)VON #2
v)the jail security couple in their home (2)
vi)the firefighter who went to see if he could help the security couple and their home
vii)Officer Stevenson and the fellow whose vehicle GW took (2)
viii)the woman out walking
Those locations total 'over 7 locations' 'in total', and account for all 22 deceased victims.

Maybe it only seems this way to me, but I get the impression police have given very little actual factual information/details, and reporters are scrambling to write their stories, but at the same time, they may be piecing together information, much like we are here, and perhaps they are matching things up which are not necessarily a match? As far as I am aware, there was no deceased body found at GW's home address location at 200 Portapique Beach Road (as indicated on the map photo in the article, which was posted previously at WS), which leads me to believe the map is not showing 'deceased locations', but rather, like it states, it is showing 'shooting locations'. jmo.
 
deugirtni said:
In that article linked above, where it shows that photo of the eight dots, the inscription on the photo suggests those are the locations of 'shootings' that night, but not necessarily 'deceased'? It says: "A look at where the shootings happened in Portapique, N.S. on the evening of April 18, 2020."

Elsewhere, the article also stated:

In total, 13 people were killed in the Portapique area, according to police.

“In total, there were over seven locations where people were found deceased,” Campbell told reporters. “Many of the deceased were discovered when responding members were checking homes and/or for suspects.”

First sentence is saying 13 killed in Portapique area, but is not a direct quote.

The second sentence, which is a direct quote, is saying there were "over seven locations where people were found deceased" - but it doesn't seem to follow along that the quoted source is necessarily speaking about only the victims in Portapique - because that person is saying 'in total', which could mean 'all' of the locations where people were deceased? If we think about all the locations where people were found deceased, and there being over seven locations:
i)Portapique victims (13)
ii)Gina's home
iii)VON #1
iv)VON #2
v)the jail security couple in their home (2)
vi)the firefighter who went to see if he could help the security couple and their home
vii)Officer Stevenson and the fellow whose vehicle GW took (2)
viii)the woman out walking
Those locations total 'over 7 locations' 'in total', and account for all 22 deceased victims.

Maybe it only seems this way to me, but I get the impression police have given very little actual factual information/details, and reporters are scrambling to write their stories, but at the same time, they may be piecing together information, much like we are here, and perhaps they are matching things up which are not necessarily a match? As far as I am aware, there was no deceased body found at GW's home address location at 200 Portapique Beach Road (as indicated on the map photo in the article, which was posted previously at WS), which leads me to believe the map is not showing 'deceased locations', but rather, like it states, it is showing 'shooting locations'. jmo.
Click to expand...

Yes I think you’re correct and the Portapique map with the 8 dots indicates crime scenes where violence occurred directly involving victims. We know some of the victims survived, including the common law wife and the 2 men shot at in the vehicle, any others we don’t know.

During the last PC iirc Campbell clarified when he referred to “victims” he was including both those who were deceased and others who survived. There was some ambiguity because earlier in his talk it seemed as if he was referring to those who were killed.
 
MistyWaters said:
I agree.

The red flags may not have surprised anyone had he murdered his common law wife and then shot himself in the head. But as far as what we know so far, absolutely nothing stands out about him nor his lifestyle to indicate it was inevitable that he was about to commit violent killings of such a great magnitude.

It seems to me he was far too cunning and sly to have been concerned about mental health treatment. I’m certain he was a psychopath, my unprofessional opinion only but the god-like complex certainly fits what we know.

https://www.newsweek.com/psychopath-god-complex-812746
“If you don't show them the respect they think they deserve, you may see that mask slip. They will show flashes of anger, as if they want to go for you, until they can get their frustration in check and their mask back in place. It's in those moments that you see the cold-blooded animal within......

......Psychopaths enjoy the power they feel knowing so many lives and people's futures are in their hands. It's the God complex—a psychological fantasy when someone perceives themselves as superior in every way to everyone else, and rules are for mere mortals....”
Click to expand...
I don’t think psychopathy is a mental illness.
 
MistyWaters said:
Yes I think you’re correct and the Portapique map with the 8 dots indicates crime scenes where violence occurred directly involving victims. We know some of the victims survived, including the common law wife and the 2 men shot at in the vehicle, any others we don’t know.

During the last PC iirc Campbell clarified when he referred to “victims” he was including both those who were deceased and others who survived. There was some ambiguity because earlier in his talk it seemed as if he was referring to those who were killed.
Click to expand...
Wasn't it a man and his wife who GW had shot at, and who were able to describe him to police as potentially being GW?

Anyway, yes, the pic in that article states where shootings occurred.. and at GW's home address, we have since heard that his common-law wife was shot at, apparently at the house, before she escaped and hid, IIRC? So that map of dots would make sense then, because it was likely Corrie Ellison (sp?) that was shot way at the other end? The thing that is perhaps confusing about it though, is... how do they know all those people were shot.. I thought I had read they'd potentially found it too difficult, or possibly COULD find it too difficult, to determine whether those people died by gunshot wound or fire.. I guess depending on how badly their bodies were burned before they were taken to autopsy?

In regard to very few details actually being released, I don't believe police have even stated in detail, which homes were burned? I have to admit that the lack of such general info really bugs me. jmo.
 
Just found this in the Chronicle Herald and we might have some answers (or more questions) tomorrow. Frustrating isn't it?

The RCMP will hold a news conference Thursday on the latest developments in the investigation into a mass shooting in Nova Scotia.

A gunman killed 22 people on April 18 and 19 in Colchester County and East Hants.

The Mounties’ handling of the incident has come under fire, such as their decision not to request an emergency cellphone alert to residents through the province's Emergency Management Office system. Questions also have been raised about years-old warnings about the gunman’s behaviour, prompting calls for a public inquiry.

Thursday's news conference will be held at 2 p.m. at the RCMP’s provincial headquarters in Dartmouth.

The speakers will be: Assistant Commissioner Lee Bergerman, commanding officer of Nova Scotia RCMP; Chief Supt. Chris Leather, criminal operations officer of Nova Scotia RCMP; and Supt. Darren Campbell, officer in charge of support services for Nova Scotia RCMP.
 
deugirtni said:
Wasn't it a man and his wife who GW had shot at, and who were able to describe him to police as potentially being GW?

Anyway, yes, the pic in that article states where shootings occurred.. and at GW's home address, we have since heard that his common-law wife was shot at, apparently at the house, before she escaped and hid, IIRC? So that map of dots would make sense then, because it was likely Corrie Ellison (sp?) that was shot way at the other end? The thing that is perhaps confusing about it though, is... how do they know all those people were shot.. I thought I had read they'd potentially found it too difficult, or possibly COULD find it too difficult, to determine whether those people died by gunshot wound or fire.. I guess depending on how badly their bodies were burned before they were taken to autopsy?

In regard to very few details actually being released, I don't believe police have even stated in detail, which homes were burned? I have to admit that the lack of such general info really bugs me. jmo.
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly the map was introduced during the last PC and the dots represent crime scenes in Portapique. Nothing was said about how the victims were injured or killed and later it was reported the autopsies hadn’t yet been completed by N.S. Medical Examiner’s Office.

I’m not sure if we’ll ever learn who’s homes were burned unless the families disclose that information. When there’s a house fire reported in the media often specific addresses are not disclosed.
 
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deugirtni said:
Wasn't it a man and his wife who GW had shot at, and who were able to describe him to police as potentially being GW?
Click to expand...

This just refers to “another person”. I thought I recall reading somewhere it was another man but I could be wrong.


Warning signs of N.S. mass shooter’s paranoia, guns, prior abuse noted in warrant
“This witness, who is not named, told the two officers he and another person noted a building on fire in Portapique and a police vehicle in a nearby blue building that was burning as well. They had believed the police vehicle was an RCMP officer responding to the emergency.”
 
Errrr said:
I don’t think psychopathy is a mental illness.
Click to expand...

You’re right, it’s not. Is it possible for a psychopath to be mentally ill as well, I don’t know. However all psychopaths are not murderers.
 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/mass-shooting-nova-scotia-public-inquiry-1.5594485

Heather O'Brien's daughter wants answers, in the form of a public inquiry. We in NS, are leaning on our Premier, who is sort of passing the buck to the Feds. Although technically they are our Federal police force, in Eastern Canada, they also are our regional police force.
It's horrific what happened to the victims, but in some ways it's even worse that the families are being kept in the dark, considering they have a right to know what happened to their family members.
 
MistyWaters said:
You’re right, it’s not. Is it possible for a psychopath to be mentally ill as well, I don’t know. However all psychopaths are not murderers.
Click to expand...

Most are not murderers, just as many mass shooters are not psychopaths. We really need to step it up when it comes to mental health services and destigmatizing it. As for psychopaths who are wired to kill, is there any possible way to safeguard against such action? What will the psychological autopsy reveal about GW? Was he a psychopath?
 
- updates were sent to all other N.S. police agencies through the RCMP Risk Mngt Communications centre and they were all asked for assistance. Other agencies did offer assistance including lockdown of hospitals and also contacted the Risk Mngt center, offering their assistance by deployment of officers. (This seems to be refuting Truno police statements that they weren’t informed or involved.)

After Campbell’s statement this far, regarding the initial response is provided by a French translator reading from a transcript.
 
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Now he’s continuing, gunmans actions. He did not pull over any vehicles using the replica police car, however his action are still being investigated. (??? did I hear this right????)

- do not believe Const Stevenson rammed the gunman’s vehicle however there was more damage to the gunman’s vehicle than hers. it’s believed an exchange of gunfire occurred between the two, still being investigated.

- not believed either of the retired officers provided gunman with uniform items, nor another officer who was acquainted to the gunman.

- no known relationship between the gunman and the RCMP in the past.

- mentions (but doesn’t name) rumours that are circulating that aren’t true.
 
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