CANADA Canada - Susan Tice, 45, & Erin Gilmour, 22, Toronto, Aug & Dec 1983

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Wish there was more pics of Susan Tice.
If the man " stalked the streets " could he be a homeless person who was either given money by the women, or not?
Was the perp on bicycle, if so, a courier?
imo, speculation.
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...wont-heat-up-without-law-change-cops-say.html

A man stalked the streets of Toronto, a 45-year-old mother of four in his sights.

He mapped her movements through her downtown neighbourhood, plotted his attack, then savagely struck one August night in 1983. When he was done, Susan Tice lay sexually assaulted, stabbed and breathing her last in her own bedroom.

Susan Tice 45.
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Any chance this perp spent time in Toronto?
Trying to think of what may have been a common denominator with the two women, EG and ST, they both were no doubt articulate and confident women, imo, perhaps enraging someone who felt inferior, speculation.

http://www.thewhig.com/2009/11/21/people-need-to-know-the-truth
James Harold Giff, a slight 17-year-old with bushy, shoulder-length brown hair, was wearing his signature Tuf Mac work-boots. As he walked, the soles imprinted distinct wavy lines in the snow.

Heather did not know Giff.
Although they lived just a few doors apart, he existed in another world.
She might have run at first sight of him, if she had recognized the rage fermenting inside this troubled high school dropout who viewed women as evil


Giff met Heather on the swing bridge that crossed the canal. It was about 5:15 p. m.

She appeared, at least to him, like the stuck-up snobs who looked down their noses at him.
 
Was the attacker already inside the apt.? 1. Did the landlord make new keys or did Erin make new keys? If not then the previous tenant and who knows who else could have had access. 2. The brother says (I think) he stayed over with a friend at Erin's the night before and he had done this before. Does he mean the apt. on Hazleton? So again did she give them keys and could the keys ended up in the wrong hands? 3. Did the boyfriend have a key? Again anyone who knew him might have access.
The walkway going towards the apt......on one hand it is very exposed yet there is not even today a lot of people traffic on Hazleton. the LE or media theory that she left the door open since the boyfriend was coming over is a good one.
 
It is incredible nobody has come forward given the 200,000 reward and not only for that reason of course. Well maybe this person really told nobody.

To me the 'both frequented Yorkville' solution needs more filling in. I am sure LE has the name of some bars. I don't know if Remy's or Hemingway's were yet open but my point would be that there were very different kinds of restaurants bars in Yorkville not all of them super upscale.
 
Hi! I'm new here. I live in Toronto and I had never heard of this case before. I did some online research and found a very similar case

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=690.0
The nude, bludgeoned body of Tatiana (Tanya) Anikejew, 22, was found by her parents on Saturday, Oct. 1, 1988, in her three-storey brick walk-up apartment on Broadway Ave. The Seneca College creative advertising-broadcasting student had been dead for two or three days before her parents discovered her.

Neighbors heard screams on Sept. 28 and even came out of their apartments but all assumed someone else had called police about the disturbance. No one had, and the sex killing remains a mystery.

"It's a real shame someone didn't call police when they heard her screams," said Detective Sergeant Neil Tweedy of the homicide squad. "Because we probably would have found her killer."​



---
Some inconsistencies in these articles - Same paper, October 3, 1988, A6:
Quote

A young college student was found stabbed to death in her north Toronto apartment over the weekend.

Tatiana Anikejew, 22, was nude and had several stab wounds in the chest when her parents found her body Saturday morning, Metro police said.

There were signs of violence in Anikejew's apartment but Metro police have not established a motive in her killing.

An autopsy was to be held to determine whether she was sexually assaulted.

The Seneca College graphic arts student lived alone in a three- storey brick walkup in the Eglinton Ave.-Mt. Pleasant Rd. area.

Police believe she had been dead for two or three days when her parents found her at 11.40 a.m. Saturday.

39th victim

Anikejew is Metro's 39th homicide victim this year.

Neighbors of the slain woman described her as a loner who occasionally had a few girlfriends over on a Friday or Saturday night.

"No one really knew her too well in the building," said Robert Wiggins, who lived across the hall from Anikejew. She often stopped to pet his German shepherd dog, he said.

The dog seemed to sense something was wrong in her apartment last Tuesday, Wiggins said, because it kept sniffing around the door. But no one he knew had heard anything unusual in her apartment, he said.

Anikejew's death has renewed concerns in the neighborhood about the presence of a halfway house for federal ex-convicts on Montgomery Ave., he said.

Anikejew's Broadway Ave. apartment building was about two blocks from the halfway house from which an ex-convict escaped and murdered another young woman earlier this year.

A coroner's inquest into the circumstances surrounding the slaying of Tema Conter was to begin today.

Life sentence

Conter, a 25-year-old fashion store manager, was stabbed to death in her Balliol St. apartment just a few blocks south of Montgomery House. Her murderer, Melvin Glenn Stanton, was sentenced to life in prison.

Tenants in the Broadway Ave. apartment are scared, said superintendent Yvonne Briden.

"They know it (the halfway house) is there and I think people are going to be nervous about having it around when something like this happens. Naturally they're worried about their own protection," she said.

But Briden doesn't believe ex-convicts living at the halfway house should be singled out as the only suspects in the slaying.

She said the door to Anikejew's apartment wasn't forced and the entrance to the apartment is always locked.

"We have locks, peepholes on the door. I think she let whoever killed her in."​

All 3 women lived alone, were stabbed, geographically these crimes are within a 10 minute drive of each other, Tatiana and Erin are similar in appearance. I couldn't find any information about DNA being recovered in Tatiana's case. It remains unsolved to this day. What are your thoughts??
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Xx7b_GZZE&feature=youtu.be
rbbm
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2016/03/2...oronto-police/
Gallant said police were able to link the cases in 2000, using DNA evidence. They may have met their attacker before they were killed, Gallant said, perhaps in a bar or at a restaurant.

Gilmour’s family is offering a $200,000 reward for information.

“There is no doubt that there are people that are close to this suspect, or were close to him at the time, and you know that he did this. “I am confident of that,” Gallant said.

“We have his DNA. All we need from you is his name.”

This isn’t the first time police have put out an appeal for more information. In 2008, as police launched a new cold case website, they said both Tice and Gilmour had been sexually assaulted and fatally stabbed.
 
Toronto Crime Stoppers

Published on Dec 8, 2017 On Wednesday, August 17, 1983, at about 11:15 AM., police discovered Susan Tice inside her residence suffering from stab wounds and deceased at the scene. On Tuesday, December 20, 1983, at about 9:20 AM., police discovered Erin Gilmour inside her residence, suffering from stab wounds and deceased at the scene. DNA evidence from these two homicides links them together to the same offender. Police are looking for the name of the suspect responsible for these two linked homicides. They have the DNA they just need the person’s name to match them up. Your tip WILL solve this case. Please help today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANDDSd6p-mM
 
Yes it is not clear how rigorously they pursued this. It could be that they are pretty sure it was the boyfriend but couldn't charge him. If not it is odd so little was made of the case. I had never heard of it. It would not hurt to being it to the attention of the officer in charge of the case. You would think they would have considered this but they have too many cases to deal with so you never know. There should be DNA surely?
 
there is even an additional police award so it is a huge amount except for those to whom a quarter million is not a lot

that slightly tilts things in the direction of someone from her social circle. most of the articles and reminiscinces are from people who did well to some extent and often that means having a bit to start with is this media choosing those people or something else there is a very slight but real sense of the story being controlled to keep it upscale and proper

the alternative is the totally random lucky attack and i guess the lack of connection to tice tilts in that separate direction
though le say that is probably some connection though they dont suggest much just bars in yorkville

the tight time frame could be initimacy so scenario one or blind luck

everyone is starting from gilmour as she is a wealthier potentially and on surface younger prettier what happens if we start with tice and call gilmour the ancilliary murder

not to insult erin to solve both

there is nothing on tice so what can be filled in starting there

mild irritation with gallant et al in that he keeps making videos telling people to call in solve things for him 'you know you did this etc. in guyana they solved 78 per cent of murders last year in toronto a bit more than half maybe there is lots of organized crime in guyana

i would still like to know where the nephew and his buddy were the night BEFORE erin was killed his own video seems to say he was staying with her is that correct

also why is only the nephew coming forward and thanks and kudos for doing so. is he the family representative and i dont think he is so why is the father etc so reticent. he is rich so what.

i am only saying this to push things we dont need the family compact i mean in the loosest sense stopping us from asking questions

the whole thing is erin centric and why?

Also really does the nephew have nothing else from having thought about this long and hard. In the video I would love to look at that wall of photo memorabilia up close. I mean in terms of angle one that of social class and familiarity.

If my daughter was killed like this I wouldnt be relying on the nephew to make a nervous cautious more or less sincere but. very strained speech i mean he didnt see her murdered....i am not sure what but there is something wrong...... he is maybe understandably a bit offhand about Susan as well....he talks as if he is talking to someone down in the boondocks but her social status and income was higher than erins surely at the time

I remember feeling that reports that in the disappearance and in my view murder of Mariam Makhniasvhili LE didnt venture into any posh zones in their questioning but paraded horses through the park an interesting echo of class and regality but surely forensically useless

just a bit of a non sequitur but back to Tice something to do with that trip she was coming back from.....Leith....Scottishness....a graveyard where Tom Thomson is supposedly buried.......it's there adding not there in thomsons grave there is a link between the two at it not at least not just some stupid bar in yorkville. Families. Forget about class we dont even know if Susan had an allowance. There is some apparent sexism. Why cant they give her anything better than Robin Knits. Start with Susan just as an exercise maybe as a solution.
 
first of all sorry brother not nephew of course but sometimes if you wait you dont post


by the way i do have a suspect who like most suspects on ws given the difficulties of police access to files and questioning by us is probably innocent lived on Oriole Road close to EG which is why i want to know did Erin stay there before her murder with her brother and his young buddy (I realize they are young and not suspects) or on Hazleton? my suspect lived close to another murder victim across the street it is a very different kind of victim though..... there are a few other murders associated with him IMO some of them probably not actionable by LE barring a confession either abroad or as a teen. a member on a site like this on a private contact not disagreeing exactly with me called it rich boy roulette i.e. the disgusting ivory pots of upper canada college etc. what disturbs our blood territory etc
 
first of all sorry brother not nephew of course but sometimes if you wait you dont post


by the way i do have a suspect who like most suspects on ws given the difficulties of police access to files and questioning by us is probably innocent lived on Oriole Road close to EG which is why i want to know did Erin stay there before her murder with her brother and his young buddy (I realize they are young and not suspects) or on Hazleton? my suspect lived close to another murder victim across the street it is a very different kind of victim though..... there are a few other murders associated with him IMO some of them probably not actionable by LE barring a confession either abroad or as a teen. a member on a site like this on a private contact not disagreeing exactly with me called it rich boy roulette i.e. the disgusting ivory pots of upper canada college etc. what disturbs our blood territory etc
Thinking i need a decoder ring!
Is the other murder near Oriole that you alluded to, one of these listed below, perhaps the elderly female?
speculation, imo.
https://www.housecreep.com/ee/696-oriole-pkwy-toronto-on-m4s2l2-ca
 
For what's it worth, if you put any connection to the phases of the moon, both murders fell very close to special moon events in 1983.

August 8, 1983 - Super New Moon
August 23, 1983 - Micro Full Moon
August 23, 1983 - Blue Moon

December 19, 1983 - Penumbral Lunar Eclipse
 
I think this has to be looked at from another direction. It seems the police have run down all possible angles trying to connect the two women. Maybe it's time to look at these as a random killing. Somebody in a previous post had brought up another murder taking place just north of these.

It seems likely that in the case of Erin Gilmour, she left her door open when she went inside since she was expecting her boyfriend shortly. It seems quite likely that somebody was watching and followed her inside. In a single dwelling like that it would be easy. Chancy, but easy and it's obvious somebody didn't mind taking a chance.

Susan Tice lived in a multi-unit building (if I'm wrong please correct) that I'm assuming would have had buzz in/out system. It's possible that she could have let someone walk in with her. Maybe they were already there in the building. But where could someone hang around in a building that they wouldn't draw too much attention? Was there a separate laundry room? They would still need to pick the right person coming in and chance the person was by themselves without someone waiting inside the apartment. How would they determine Susan was by herself when she walked in and somebody wasn't parking a car and coming in a couple of minutes behind her? I would like to know if there was a common area in the building that somebody could stand and watch where Susan parked to see she was alone, but they would still be taking a chance somebody wasn't inside waiting for her to get home. Did they help her carry something up to her apartment and then attack when they saw no one else was there? Or did they just follow her and take a chance nobody was in the apartment when they pushed through the door?

Another option is was the killer already inside waiting for them to get home. Possible in the case of Tice, but you would think Gilmour would have heard someone walking around upstairs when there wasn't anyone supposed to be there, though perhaps she had music on in the store that would have masked the sounds of anyone walking around.

I wonder just how carefully the locks of these apartments were examined to see if there were any scratch marks on them from being picked?

Were there any reports in the area of anybody trying to get into buildings or trying to force their way into apartments after following a lone female?
 
I realized I was entirely wrong about the dwelling that Susan Tice lived in. It was a single family home. Sorry.

It does seem very likely that someone watched both Tice and Gilmour go inside and then followed them in through the unlocked door. It doesn't rule out the possibility that someone was already inside though.
 
I realized I was entirely wrong about the dwelling that Susan Tice lived in. It was a single family home. Sorry.

It does seem very likely that someone watched both Tice and Gilmour go inside and then followed them in through the unlocked door. It doesn't rule out the possibility that someone was already inside though.

I think she had just returned from Leith up north it was even wondered if she had picked up a hitchhiker. She is buried in Leith.
 
if erin susan
and tatiana were all killed with a knife wound to the heart that would be an ominous link surely. is there any way for us to know this for sure





I think this has to be looked at from another direction. It seems the police have run down all possible angles trying to connect the two women. Maybe it's time to look at these as a random killing. Somebody in a previous post had brought up another murder taking place just north of these.

It seems likely that in the case of Erin Gilmour, she left her door open when she went inside since she was expecting her boyfriend shortly. It seems quite likely that somebody was watching and followed her inside. In a single dwelling like that it would be easy. Chancy, but easy and it's obvious somebody didn't mind taking a chance.

Susan Tice lived in a multi-unit building (if I'm wrong please correct) that I'm assuming would have had buzz in/out system. It's possible that she could have let someone walk in with her. Maybe they were already there in the building. But where could someone hang around in a building that they wouldn't draw too much attention? Was there a separate laundry room? They would still need to pick the right person coming in and chance the person was by themselves without someone waiting inside the apartment. How would they determine Susan was by herself when she walked in and somebody wasn't parking a car and coming in a couple of minutes behind her? I would like to know if there was a common area in the building that somebody could stand and watch where Susan parked to see she was alone, but they would still be taking a chance somebody wasn't inside waiting for her to get home. Did they help her carry something up to her apartment and then attack when they saw no one else was there? Or did they just follow her and take a chance nobody was in the apartment when they pushed through the door?

Another option is was the killer already inside waiting for them to get home. Possible in the case of Tice, but you would think Gilmour would have heard someone walking around upstairs when there wasn't anyone supposed to be there, though perhaps she had music on in the store that would have masked the sounds of anyone walking around.

I wonder just how carefully the locks of these apartments were examined to see if there were any scratch marks on them from being picked?

Were there any reports in the area of anybody trying to get into buildings or trying to force their way into apartments after following a lone female?
 

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