CANADA Canada - Susan Tice, 45, & Erin Gilmour, 22, Toronto, Aug & Dec 1983

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One evening, Erin arrived home and put her key in the front door lock. She didn't know that a drug-addled man had crept up behind her. He pushed her inside.

"After the rage subsides and the watershed is subsiding, you learn to stop feeling sorry for yourself," Gilmour says of living with the horror of knowing what happened to Erin. "My daughter is in a better place."

BBM: not sure where this comes from? I’m going to assume bad reporting? Misinformation?
MOO
 
Ok, did some research on Canada's National DNA Data Bank.

I wasn't sure how extensive Canada's retroactive collection of DNA was after they passed the DNA Identification Act (passed in 1998, came into force in 2000).

Like others on this thread, I think this guy was prob a repeat offender. He may have been incarcerated when the DNA Identification Act was enacted for lesser offenses, such as breaking & entering, burglary-like charges and never got his DNA collected. In 2008 there were legislative amendments that expanded retroactive collection to include more sex offenders. Another thought is that maybe he did have more serious charges against him but pleaded them down...

Good explanations from:
National DNA Data Bank

Retroactive provisions
Canada's DNA data bank legislation was enacted in December 1998 and came into force on June 30, 2000. The legislation created a new statute governing the establishment and administration of a national DNA data bank and also amended the Criminal Code to permit a judge to make a post-conviction DNA data bank order authorizing the taking of bodily substances from a person found guilty of designated Criminal Code offences in order to include the offender's DNA profile in the national DNA data bank.

The legislation also included a limited retroactive scheme under which some offenders convicted before the date the DNA Identification Act came into force were eligible to have their DNA profiles included in the National DNA Data Bank. Inclusion was not automatic. The Crown had to apply to a provincial court judge and the judge had the discretion to make the order or to deny making it. Only an offender who had been declared a dangerous offender; or had been convicted of two murders committed at different times; or had been convicted of two sexual offences committed at different times and was still under sentence at the time an application was made to the court would be eligible under the retroactive scheme.
Click to expand...

Legislative amendments
Bills C-13/C-18, which amended Canada's DNA data bank legislation, came into force on January 1, 2008. Bill C-13 expanded the retroactive provisions of the Criminal Code so that:

  • all persons convicted before June 30, 2000 of murder, manslaughter or a sexual offence, and who are still under sentence, could be included in the National DNA Data Bank; and
  • now-repealed sexual offences (indecent assault male, indecent assault female, and gross indecency) in the list of designated sexual offences could be included for the purposes of the retroactive provisions of the Criminal Code.
The retroactive provision resulted in the addition of approximately 3,200 convicted offenders in the National DNA Data Bank in 2008.

In addition, Bills C-13/C-18 expanded the scope of existing DNA legislation and improved the procedures surrounding the collection and management of DNA evidence contained in the data bank.
Click to expand...
 
As you said DSCrime, the problem is the guy may have been out of the system prior to the DNA data collection or he was never, ever caught. I think he was either too old or dead by the time the Act was passed in 1998. I feel he had done this before the murders of Tice and Gilmour, and likely did them after as well, but he was dead before 1998.

Time to stop trying to match people and instead try to match the crimes similarities.
 
Perp likely had a casual connection with each of the victims, who would recognize him from meeting at a bar, the street, or in a restaurant.

Susan T and Erin G. have no connection with each other.

The perp likely lived or worked in the area between Grace St and Hazelton Ave.

There is no doubt that there are people who were close to the suspect at the time of the murders and they know that he did it.
LE are confident of that.

All they want is a name, nothing more.
$200k reward.
 
Genetic genealogy pushes Toronto detectives close to identifying killer in 2 cold cases from 1983

"Detectives with the Toronto Police Service say they are close to identifying the killer responsible for two cold cases from 1983.

They have been mining family tree records, coupled with DNA matches — commonly known as genetic genealogy — to try to solve the 1983 killings of 22-year-old Erin Gilmour and 45-year-old Susan Tice.

  • Watch "The Gene Hunters" on The Fifth Estate Thursday at 9 p.m. on CBC-TV or stream it on CBC Gem

[...]

Detectives entered DNA from semen left at the crime scene into the popular family tree database called GEDmatch. It uses raw DNA data submitted voluntarily by members who use companies like 23andMe or Ancestry.ca to do family history research.

In November 2020, police researchers successfully identified the unknown suspect's great-grandparents. Since then, family tree researchers have been working their way down from that set of great-grandparents to try to ascertain the identity of the unknown great-grandson they believe is the killer.

"We've narrowed it down to basically two families," said Smith. "We're looking at maybe 26 children, and then their children's children."

Smith said he is not ready to publicly disclose any further details about their investigation."
 
faithx said:
Genetic genealogy pushes Toronto detectives close to identifying killer in 2 cold cases from 1983

"Detectives with the Toronto Police Service say they are close to identifying the killer responsible for two cold cases from 1983.

They have been mining family tree records, coupled with DNA matches — commonly known as genetic genealogy — to try to solve the 1983 killings of 22-year-old Erin Gilmour and 45-year-old Susan Tice.

  • Watch "The Gene Hunters" on The Fifth Estate Thursday at 9 p.m. on CBC-TV or stream it on CBC Gem

[...]

Detectives entered DNA from semen left at the crime scene into the popular family tree database called GEDmatch. It uses raw DNA data submitted voluntarily by members who use companies like 23andMe or Ancestry.ca to do family history research.

In November 2020, police researchers successfully identified the unknown suspect's great-grandparents. Since then, family tree researchers have been working their way down from that set of great-grandparents to try to ascertain the identity of the unknown great-grandson they believe is the killer.

"We've narrowed it down to basically two families," said Smith. "We're looking at maybe 26 children, and then their children's children."

Smith said he is not ready to publicly disclose any further details about their investigation."
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting, very exciting news!!!
From link..

''A suspicion that Gilmour knew her killer was fuelled when it came to light that the person had covered Gilmour with her comforter.

"The significance of the blanket, or comforter, being pulled up over the victim can be looked at in a couple of different … ways," said Smith. "Sometimes it's believed that the offender knew or was related to or had a relationship with the victim, and they'll cover the victim … kind of to reduce their guilt."

''Tice's next-door neighbour later told police that around 1:30 a.m., she heard four female screams, a male voice and a door open, but she did not call police. She also heard someone walking between their houses approximately 15 minutes later.

Tice had been hit on the head with a liquor bottle during the assault and had a defensive wound on her left palm.''

''Message for killer

Doyle has a message directly for the killer who he feels they're close to identifying.

"I'd say turn yourself in. I'd say contact a lawyer and turn yourself in.… I'm speaking directly to you. I mean, you've caused so much harm for what it is that you've done," he said''.


Until now, the Tice family had never spoken publicly. ''
 
Last edited:
Tonight..
Mar 18, 2021
Thursday March 18 at 9PM on CBC.

https://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/2020-2021/the-gene-hunters-recipe-for-genius
Mar 18, 2021
''The gene hunters | Recipe for genius
Thirty-seven years ago two women were murdered months apart in Ontario. Years later, DNA led police to determine the same person killed them both. But who did it? The Fifth Estate takes you behind the scenes as Toronto Police mine genetic genealogy and family ancestry to narrow down the hunt for a killer. As you will see, they are on track to finally cracking the case. In our second story, the success of Netflix's massively popular show “The Queen's Gambit” has stoked new interest in the game of chess, and a fascination with children who show early genius for the cerebral game. Terence McKenna and The Fifth Estate looks at examples of parents who attempted to foster genius, with dramatically different outcomes, "Recipe for genius."
 
The Toronto Sun has an article today (March 18/21) about this case. It sounds like they are very close to identifying the killer, using technology similar to that which was used to identify Christine Jessop’s killer. This is fantastic news!! Hopefully many cold cases are about to get solved and provide some closure to the families that have suffered for so long, not knowing what happened to their loved ones nor why.
 
Coralina said:
The Toronto Sun has an article today (March 18/21) about this case. It sounds like they are very close to identifying the killer, using technology similar to that which was used to identify Christine Jessop’s killer. This is fantastic news!! Hopefully many cold cases are about to get solved and provide some closure to the families that have suffered for so long, not knowing what happened to their loved ones nor why.
Click to expand...

Same technology and same lab :)
 
Othram! God bless you people! If I win the lottery, I will set up a hundred scholarships for others to go to school so you can train them to do this work! Every cold case killer should be shaking in his/her boots right now , knowing you have the potential to discover them. I hope security is super tight at you lab. You are heroes!!!
 
Coralina said:
Othram! God bless you people! If I win the lottery, I will set up a hundred scholarships for others to go to school so you can train them to do this work! Every cold case killer should be shaking in his/her boots right now , knowing you have the potential to discover them. I hope security is super tight at you lab. You are heroes!!!
Click to expand...
Great idea Coralina, meantime can hardly wait to learn all about the various "twists and turns" faced in these cases!
Mar 19, 2021 rbbm.
T.O. cops inch closer to cracking two cold-case murders | Toronto Sun
tumblr_inline_oxoaksWyTo1um4f9y_1280.jpg

Susan Tice, left, and Erin Gilmour were both murdered by the same man in 1983 just months apart.
“This is the most complicated case I’ve worked on in my career,” said Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith, who heads the Homicide Squad’s cold case section.

“There’s nothing even close to it, the twists and turns we’ve had in this.”

“Eventually, when we are able to identify who the offender actually is, we’ll be able to provide more information in regards to the difficulties we’ve faced in this case,” he said.''
 
Coralina said:
Othram! God bless you people! If I win the lottery, I will set up a hundred scholarships for others to go to school so you can train them to do this work! Every cold case killer should be shaking in his/her boots right now , knowing you have the potential to discover them. I hope security is super tight at you lab. You are heroes!!!
Click to expand...
You are very kind! You can help by spreading the word about our cases at DNAsolves.com.
 
After 36 Years, Christine Jessop's Killer Has Been Identified
''Othram is the world’s first private DNA laboratory built specifically to apply the power of modern parallel sequencing to forensic evidence. Othram’s scientists are experts at recovery, enrichment, and analysis of human DNA from trace quantities of degraded or contaminated materials. Founded in 2018, and located in The Woodlands, Texas, our team works with academic researchers, forensic scientists, medical examiners, and law enforcement agencies to achieve results when other approaches have failed. Follow Othram on Twitter @OthramTech or visit Othram.com to learn how we can help you with your case. Visit dnasolves.com to learn how anyone can make a difference in helping solve the next cold case.''
 
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