CANADA Canada - Susan Tice, 45, & Erin Gilmour, 22, Toronto, Aug & Dec 1983

[Gina20]

Any idea if this resolution is years, months or weeks away?

The level of violence in these two murders leads me to believe that this man killed previously, and possibly subsequently.

I doubt that anyone will come forward to confess. He got away with it for a very long time. Why would he -- assuming he is still alive? However a family member or former friend might be willing to provide some answers.

Palm Beach resident channels the pain of losing child into helping at-risk kids



One evening, Erin arrived home and put her key in the front door lock. She didn't know that a drug-addled man had crept up behind her. He pushed her inside.

"After the rage subsides and the watershed is subsiding, you learn to stop feeling sorry for yourself," Gilmour says of living with the horror of knowing what happened to Erin. "My daughter is in a better place."

BBM: not sure where this comes from? I’m going to assume bad reporting? Misinformation?
MOO

In the recent Fifth Estate documentary, one of the detectives said that was a working theory. It was discounted as the investigation progressed.

One thing I noticed in old news footage from the time was what appeared to be construction debris on a skid outside Erin's apartment. Not sure what that was about.

 

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Murder of Claudia Geburt (21 yrs old) on July 12, 1982-stabbed in her 2nd fl bedroom in her apartment on Leslie St (near Dundas St, Toronto) bears some resemblance to the Tice & Gilmour homicides.

 

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Some other notable facts re the Claudia Geburt homicide are that:
1). As a young child she lived 2 doors down from 4 yr old Paul Bernardo, on Sir Raymond Dr., Scarborough (suburb of Toronto). Her family moved a few blocks away when PB was around 4 and she was around 7. There is a possibility the families knew each other and that PB continued to know her via school friends, his sister, or other Scarborough community circles, as they grew up.
2). Here is a quote from a Sept 2, 1982 UPI news article:
“Const. Ken Currie said detectives found the bodies of Charles Frederick Boyd, 35, of Scarborough, Ont., and 21-year-old Terry Colleen Lukow, of Oshawa, Ont. in Boyd's home Thursday after Miss Lukow's father reported to police that he had not seen his daughter since Tuesday. 'Our investigation indicates that Boyd was shot by Miss Lukow and that she then committed suicide. A gun was found at the scene,' said Currie.
Boyd had been engaged to Claudia Geburt, who was murdered in her east-end Toronto home July 12. Miss Lukow had lived with Miss Geburt at the time of her murder.
Both Boyd and Miss Lukow left suicide notes, police said. The hand-written messages talked about Geburt and the emotional blow caused by the unsolved killing. Currie said police had contacted Boyd's sister who accompanied them on the search of Boyd's house. 'She told us that both Boyd and Lukow had been very depressed since Miss Geburt’s murder,' Currie said.”.

 

[dotr]

Murder of Claudia Geburt (21 yrs old) on July 12, 1982-stabbed in her 2nd fl bedroom in her apartment on Leslie St (near Dundas St, Toronto) bears some resemblance to the Tice & Gilmour homicides.

Homicide #26/1982

''Claudia
GEBURT
Age: 21
Murdered on: July 12, 1982
Location: 55 Division
Details of Investigation:
On Monday, July 12, 1982, at about 3:15 p.m., police responded to an emergency call on Leslie Street near Dundas Street E.

The victim was discovered inside a residence, suffering from stab wounds, and obviously deceased.''

 

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I have posted details of the Claudia Geburt homicide here only because her stabbing death bears resemblance to the way Tice & Gilmour died, and the dates are close, which opens possibility of same serial perpetrator. Also, wouldn’t be first time a set of deaths were labeled “murder-suicide,” but other possibilities exist.

 

[dotr]

I have posted details of the Claudia Geburt homicide here only because her stabbing death bears resemblance to the way Tice & Gilmour died, and the dates are close, which opens possibility of same serial perpetrator. Also, wouldn’t be first time a set of deaths were labeled “murder-suicide,” but other possibilities exist.

Just found CrimeSolver's post concerning Claudia Gebut..
rsbm.

CANADA - Canada - Toronto Crimes Discussion
''●On Monday, July 12th, 1982, on her 21st birthday, Claudia Geburt was viciously stabbed to death in a second-floor sitting room of her rented house on Leslie St., six doors south of Dundas St. Her fiancé found Geburt’s nude, blood-spattered body facedown on the floor when he called on her mid-afternoon.
On September 2nd, Geburt’s fiancé and best friend died in a murder-suicide pact. They had been extremely depressed in the wake of Geburt’s murder. Despite this bizarre, suspicious turn of events, police were never able to definitively solve the murder of Claudia Geburt, but police speculation at the time was that the killer was someone who had spotted the victim sunbathing on her deck.''

 

[Georgia8]

It sounds as if this case is as good as solved it will be interesting to see not just who it is but how the person is connected to these two women if he is. Susan is buried in Leith ON which is tiny I am curious about the very very small town comment LE made. Lots of very small towns in Canada though. Geburt do they have DNA?

It's a little unsettling in that video how long it takes the two detectives to come up with the idea that maybe the perp came in the alley way given the prominent entrance. Thank God for DNA.

 

[Gina20]

I have posted details of the Claudia Geburt homicide here only because her stabbing death bears resemblance to the way Tice & Gilmour died, and the dates are close, which opens possibility of same serial perpetrator. Also, wouldn’t be first time a set of deaths were labeled “murder-suicide,” but other possibilities exist.

I did note that Susan Tice lived across the street from a park, with two other parks nearby. Erin Gilmour lived near a park and school. Maybe this is where the notion of a homeless person came from in the Florida interview with her father.

 

[branmuffin]

These murders remind me of Nancy Eaton's murder by Andrew Leyshon Hughes in 1986. Same MO. Not guilty by reason of insanity. With the exception of Tice, the perp and victims are from incredibly wealthy families. I wonder if Nancy and Erin moved in the same circles at some point in time or went to the same private schools. They even resembled one another. Leyshon Hughes was an Osler, another famous Canadian name.

 

[Gina20]

These murders remind me of Nancy Eaton's murder by Andrew Leyshon Hughes in 1986. Same MO. Not guilty by reason of insanity. With the exception of Tice, the perp and victims are from incredibly wealthy families. I wonder if Nancy and Erin moved in the same circles at some point in time or went to the same private schools. They even resembled one another. Leyshon Hughes was an Osler, another famous Canadian name.

There certainly was an era of heightened danger for Toronto heiresses/socialites, from the 1976 attempted kidnapping of Signy Eaton (born 1961), to Erin Gilmour (born 1961) to the murder of Nancy Eaton (born 1961). All of these incidents were highly publicized.

DNA will tell the story in the case of Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice.

 

[dotr]

These murders remind me of Nancy Eaton's murder by Andrew Leyshon Hughes in 1986. Same MO. Not guilty by reason of insanity. With the exception of Tice, the perp and victims are from incredibly wealthy families. I wonder if Nancy and Erin moved in the same circles at some point in time or went to the same private schools. They even resembled one another. Leyshon Hughes was an Osler, another famous Canadian name.

2007
Leyshon-Hughes v. Ontario (Review Board) - British Columbia ...

Andrew Leyshon-Hughes: He warned his uncle he was losing control before killing friend.
Spremo, Boris
Picture, 1985''


''Based on the book A Question of Guilt: The Murder of Nancy Eaton by William Scoular and Vivian Green, Deadly Friends (The Death and Life of Nancy Eaton) chronicles the troubling and tragic relationship between Eaton family heiress Nancy Eaton (Jessica Paré) and 17-year-old Andrew Leyshon-Hughes (Brendan Fletcher), her childhood friend and a member of another prominent Canadian family, who would become her murderer.''

 

[Georgia8]

2007
Leyshon-Hughes v. Ontario (Review Board) - British Columbia ...

Andrew Leyshon-Hughes: He warned his uncle he was losing control before killing friend.
Spremo, Boris
Picture, 1985''


''Based on the book A Question of Guilt: The Murder of Nancy Eaton by William Scoular and Vivian Green, Deadly Friends (The Death and Life of Nancy Eaton) chronicles the troubling and tragic relationship between Eaton family heiress Nancy Eaton (Jessica Paré) and 17-year-old Andrew Leyshon-Hughes (Brendan Fletcher), her childhood friend and a member of another prominent Canadian family, who would become her murderer.''

2007
Leyshon-Hughes v. Ontario (Review Board) - British Columbia ...

Andrew Leyshon-Hughes: He warned his uncle he was losing control before killing friend.
Spremo, Boris
Picture, 1985''


''Based on the book A Question of Guilt: The Murder of Nancy Eaton by William Scoular and Vivian Green, Deadly Friends (The Death and Life of Nancy Eaton) chronicles the troubling and tragic relationship between Eaton family heiress Nancy Eaton (Jessica Paré) and 17-year-old Andrew Leyshon-Hughes (Brendan Fletcher), her childhood friend and a member of another prominent Canadian family, who would become her murderer.''

 

[Georgia8]

I mentioned Leith ON where Susan Tice is buried and where (I think generally) she had just come back from when killed. There are ancestors of Nancy Eaton buried there as well you can check Leith Historical Cemetery online. It would be very strange if LE had not though of this though and they knew where to find him. That crime scene is close to Erin's a walk.

If not him the general idea is still good - someone from a high class family known to Erin with mental health problems. We'll soon see I think they are going to know if alive they will still have the problem of making a criminal cases though with DNA should be easy.

What kind of social work did Susan do? She could be worked in to a theory if he was a client of hers?

 

[Gina20]

I mentioned Leith ON where Susan Tice is buried and where (I think generally) she had just come back from when killed. There are ancestors of Nancy Eaton buried there as well you can check Leith Historical Cemetery online. It would be very strange if LE had not though of this though and they knew where to find him. That crime scene is close to Erin's a walk.

If not him the general idea is still good - someone from a high class family known to Erin with mental health problems. We'll soon see I think they are going to know if alive they will still have the problem of making a criminal cases though with DNA should be easy.

What kind of social work did Susan do? She could be worked in to a theory if he was a client of hers?

Don't forget that Susan was a nurse before she got her social work Master's degree. That could be tied into a theory of some sort, too. Some social workers work in hospitals.

 

[Gina20]

Another thing interested me about that Florida interview with Erin Gilmour's father. The article discussed his financial support for programs for at-risk children in Florida.

Palm Beach resident channels the pain of losing child into helping at-risk kids

Susan Tice was said to have worked with disadvantaged children.

Two women linked by serial killer

 

[Georgia8]

I'm wasting my time I guess since this one is as good as solved it seems. Just to say the fact that Erin was getting THREATENING phone calls is huge if true it is almost certainly HIM. I mean every woman I dated got perverted phone calls at some point or someone flashing them. But threatening...different. I wonder how he got away? Car? Yorkville with blood all over your almost impossible. Hazleton walking north could be empty and you could get inot the ravine system easily. Strange though the route of egress.

 

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From Toronto Crimes thread on WS. “On November 9th, 1993, 39-year-old Catherine [Irene] Clark was beaten and strangled to death in her eighth-floor apartment at 200 Wellesley St. in downtown Toronto. Security guards discovered her body sprawled on her bed. Police believed she knew her killer and admitted him to her apartment. Clark, an unemployed registered nurse, frequently used telephone and newspaper dating services, and the theory is her killer was a date with whom she had a violent altercation.”

 

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Duplicate

 

[Gina20]

From Toronto Crimes thread on WS. “On November 9th, 1993, 39-year-old Catherine [Irene] Clark was beaten and strangled to death in her eighth-floor apartment at 200 Wellesley St. in downtown Toronto. Security guards discovered her body sprawled on her bed. Police believed she knew her killer and admitted him to her apartment. Clark, an unemployed registered nurse, frequently used telephone and newspaper dating services, and the theory is her killer was a date with whom she had a violent altercation.”

That address has a sketchy history.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tch-building-security-1.3847975

Mysterious deaths make 200 Wellesley E. Toronto’s most ominous address: DiManno

200 Wellesley Street East, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 

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From WS thread Toronto Crimes, by Crimesolver: “On Sat, Oct 1st, 1988, Tatiana Anikejew, a 22-year-old graphic arts student at Seneca College, was found stabbed to death in her apartment on Broadway Ave. near Eglinton Ave. E. and Mount Pleasant Rd. The victim was nude and had suffered several stab wounds to the chest. She had lain dead for two or three days before her parents found her. Several neighbours stated they heard screams at 1 a.m. on Wednesday, Sept. 28th, but no one investigated their source or called police. Not even a blood trail on the third-floor staircase, or the foul stench of decomposition that began to shroud the building by Friday, prompted calls by neighbours. The apartment entryways showed no signs of damage, leading police to infer Anikejew, a loner, had either known or trusted her killer.”