CANADA Canada - Susan Tice, 45, & Erin Gilmour, 22, Toronto, Aug & Dec 1983
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Gina20
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"Tice's next-door neighbour later told police that around 1:30 a.m., she heard four female screams, a male voice and a door open, but she did not call police. She also heard someone walking between their houses approximately 15 minutes later.
"Tice had been hit on the head with a liquor bottle during the assault and had a defensive wound on her left palm."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5950504
Thanks for posting this article!
From link..
''Police frustration with obstacles
The detectives from Toronto Police Service's cold case unit, which has 698 cases, expressed frustration at the fact that in Canada, DNA is not automatically collected upon arrest.
"Canada's very different from a lot of other countries," said Smith.
"In the United States and England, they do take DNA upon the arrest of the offender. It's just like, as we take fingerprints here … it has assisted officers there in solving a lot of cases, especially a lot of the cold cases….''
MistyWaters
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/genetic-genealogy-toronto-killings-erin-gilmour-susan-tice-1.5950504
“Detectives with the Toronto Police Service say they are close to identifying the killer responsible for two cold cases from 1983.
They have been mining family tree records, coupled with DNA matches — commonly known as genetic genealogy — to try to solve the 1983 killings of 22-year-old Erin Gilmour and 45-year-old Susan Tice…..
……Detectives entered DNA from semen left at the crime scene into the popular family tree database called GEDmatch. It uses raw DNA data submitted voluntarily by members who use companies like 23andMe or Ancestry.ca to do family history research.
In November 2020, police researchers successfully identified the unknown suspect's great-grandparents. Since then, family tree researchers have been working their way down from that set of great-grandparents to try to ascertain the identity of the unknown great-grandson they believe is the killer.
"We've narrowed it down to basically two families," said Smith. "We're looking at maybe 26 children, and then their children's children."
Smith said he is not ready to publicly disclose any further details about their investigation……
……Doyle has a message directly for the killer who he feels they're close to identifying.
"I'd say turn yourself in. I'd say contact a lawyer and turn yourself in.… I'm speaking directly to you. I mean, you've caused so much harm for what it is that you've done," he said……”
“Detectives with the Toronto Police Service say they are close to identifying the killer responsible for two cold cases from 1983.
They have been mining family tree records, coupled with DNA matches — commonly known as genetic genealogy — to try to solve the 1983 killings of 22-year-old Erin Gilmour and 45-year-old Susan Tice…..
……Detectives entered DNA from semen left at the crime scene into the popular family tree database called GEDmatch. It uses raw DNA data submitted voluntarily by members who use companies like 23andMe or Ancestry.ca to do family history research.
In November 2020, police researchers successfully identified the unknown suspect's great-grandparents. Since then, family tree researchers have been working their way down from that set of great-grandparents to try to ascertain the identity of the unknown great-grandson they believe is the killer.
"We've narrowed it down to basically two families," said Smith. "We're looking at maybe 26 children, and then their children's children."
Smith said he is not ready to publicly disclose any further details about their investigation……
……Doyle has a message directly for the killer who he feels they're close to identifying.
"I'd say turn yourself in. I'd say contact a lawyer and turn yourself in.… I'm speaking directly to you. I mean, you've caused so much harm for what it is that you've done," he said……”
Gina20
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I hope that the criminal investigation has moved forward, and that this is why we haven't heard anything further to date.
Gina20
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I've posted here some recent cold cases in Alberta that have been solved with DNA advancements.
DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match.
Stil hoping that we'll hear something more soon in the cases of Susan Tice and Erin Gilmour.
DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match.
Stil hoping that we'll hear something more soon in the cases of Susan Tice and Erin Gilmour.
BEHIND THE CRIMES: Police hopeful genetic genealogy will lead to women's killer
by Dominik Kurek
May 13 2021 rbbm.
''Right after police identified Jessop’s killer, McCowan called Toronto police’s head of cold cases, Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith, to find out if the same process could be used to find his sister’s killer. Police were already working on it.
Smith said because the Toronto police did such a great job of collecting evidence – long before DNA was being used to solve crimes – and preserving it to this day, police now have a shot at solving old cold cases.''
Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith, here at Toronto police headquarters, is the head of the cold case and missing persons unit of the homicide squad. - Dan Pearce/Metroland file photo
''Toronto police started using DNA to solve crimes in the 1990s, but in its infancy, police needed a large sample and could only use it to match it to the DNA of a suspect. Without a suspect, DNA offered little information.''
Around the year 2000, police submitted Gilmour’s killer’s DNA to the Centre of Forensic Sciences (CFS) and learned that Gilmour’s killer was the same person who killed 45-year-old Susan Tice in her home in the Bickford Park area of Toronto, just a few months earlier, in much the same manner.''
''He adds that people who commit these crimes often lead high-risk lifestyles so there’s no guarantee the killer is still alive. But either way, closing a case is a victory for investigators and a relief to families, he said.
McCowan admits he would prefer the killer is still alive so he could face justice. But whether the killer is dead or alive, he and his family are grateful investigators haven’t given up on the case after all these years.''
by Dominik Kurek
May 13 2021 rbbm.
''Right after police identified Jessop’s killer, McCowan called Toronto police’s head of cold cases, Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith, to find out if the same process could be used to find his sister’s killer. Police were already working on it.
Smith said because the Toronto police did such a great job of collecting evidence – long before DNA was being used to solve crimes – and preserving it to this day, police now have a shot at solving old cold cases.''
''Toronto police started using DNA to solve crimes in the 1990s, but in its infancy, police needed a large sample and could only use it to match it to the DNA of a suspect. Without a suspect, DNA offered little information.''
Around the year 2000, police submitted Gilmour’s killer’s DNA to the Centre of Forensic Sciences (CFS) and learned that Gilmour’s killer was the same person who killed 45-year-old Susan Tice in her home in the Bickford Park area of Toronto, just a few months earlier, in much the same manner.''
''He adds that people who commit these crimes often lead high-risk lifestyles so there’s no guarantee the killer is still alive. But either way, closing a case is a victory for investigators and a relief to families, he said.
McCowan admits he would prefer the killer is still alive so he could face justice. But whether the killer is dead or alive, he and his family are grateful investigators haven’t given up on the case after all these years.''
Why would LE come out with this story? Why go public? To see how someone might react? Because although they say there are many potential great grand children I doubt it is quite that open ended. They would quickly be able to research criminal histories etc. We are only talking about 24 males or so no?
Why make this a news story what was the motive anyone know or guess?
Why make this a news story what was the motive anyone know or guess?
Mar 19, 2021
''For 37 years, police searched for the killer responsible for two cold cases in Toronto, but the trail went cold. Now, genetic genealogy is helping detectives map the unknown suspect’s family tree in order to solve the 1983 deaths of Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice. To read more: https://www.cbc.ca/1.5950504''
''For 37 years, police searched for the killer responsible for two cold cases in Toronto, but the trail went cold. Now, genetic genealogy is helping detectives map the unknown suspect’s family tree in order to solve the 1983 deaths of Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice. To read more: https://www.cbc.ca/1.5950504''
What would the point of these articles be? I am pretty sure they are much further along than thev are saying and arevwatching someone or several to see how the will react to the pressure.
Gina20
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My bet is that they're gathering and testing DNA as we speak, from discarded items like beverage containers left at a food court, or garbage placed in a bin on collection day.
Snively
Ontario Cold Cases - The Podcast
Sounds more likely they used an genealogical database and have found a relative match and are narrowing it down. Tracking who from the family may have lived or worked in Toronto at the time is likely what is being done now. They already have the DNA and possibly the killer is already dead.
Don't know why they shared this with the public. Canadian law enforcement seems to be much more guarded w/ info they give out than their American counterparts. But I'd venture an educated guess that they are also probably using a psychological profiler. Wonder if they have an idea of who it is & are connecting older, potentially still unsolved cases to this offender. For the sake of the families, I hope they have answers soon.
Snively
Ontario Cold Cases - The Podcast
They have DNA from both murders. That's how they connected them. They were definitely run through the DNA database with no other hits. Which could mean the killer never committed a violent crime again, was never caught to begin with, or was in jail prior to mandatory DNA samples being taken from violent criminals.
It is possible they are trying to connect the killer to prior or post cases in which there is no DNA on file, but those charges will very unlikely be pressed. The Crown tends to only prosecute cold cases in which a DNA profile is present. It's just the way it is for monetary reasons. They simply want the slam dunk cases.
This is all i can grab of the article for now..
Oct. 5, 2021
By Danny GallagherSpecial to the Star
Online genealogy helping police zero in on killer of Erin Gilmour, Toronto magnate’s daughter
''It was a grisly murder of a wealthy Toronto businessman’s daughter, a crime that shocked the city, and that was linked to at least one other killing.
And now, nearly 40 years later, police say they are zeroing in on a suspect in the slaying of Erin Gilmour, who was found dead in the bed of her Yorkville apartment on the cold night of Dec. 20, 1983. She was discovered by her boyfriend, Anthony Munk.''
Oct. 5, 2021
By Danny GallagherSpecial to the Star
Online genealogy helping police zero in on killer of Erin Gilmour, Toronto magnate’s daughter
''It was a grisly murder of a wealthy Toronto businessman’s daughter, a crime that shocked the city, and that was linked to at least one other killing.
And now, nearly 40 years later, police say they are zeroing in on a suspect in the slaying of Erin Gilmour, who was found dead in the bed of her Yorkville apartment on the cold night of Dec. 20, 1983. She was discovered by her boyfriend, Anthony Munk.''
More detail! rbbm.
by Phil Tsekouras
Oct 7 2021
Toronto police say they're narrowing in on Erin Gilmour's killer 38 years later
''Nearly 40 years after the daughter of a wealthy Toronto businessman was brutally murdered, police say they have narrowed her killer down to a member of one family tree and are close to knowing who did it.
Erin Gilmour, the daughter of mining magnate David Gilmour, was 22 years old when she was stabbed, strangled and sexually assaulted in her Yorkville apartment on the night of December 20, 1983.''
''Leaning on genetic genealogy and family tree websites, Smith, who heads the Toronto Police’s Cold Case and Missing Persons division, says he and his team have identified one family unit of interest, which encompasses all male relatives, including first cousins, brothers, fathers and sons.
"We're not talking 3,000, 5,000 people, but we're talking a family unit where there's a number of people still involved," Smith said, adding that he and his team are anxious to see more DNA testing processed before narrowing down their search even further.
'It's someone from a small town in Canada'
Remaining tight-lipped about specifics, Smith said the suspect is a man from a "small town in Canada" and that he was in Toronto at the time of the murders.
He revealed that the killer is part of a "very large" family unit.
A number of those family members were also living or visiting Toronto at the time of the murders.
"We do believe that at least a number of members of the family are still alive and living in small towns throughout Canada," Smith said.''
by Phil Tsekouras
Oct 7 2021
Toronto police say they're narrowing in on Erin Gilmour's killer 38 years later
''Nearly 40 years after the daughter of a wealthy Toronto businessman was brutally murdered, police say they have narrowed her killer down to a member of one family tree and are close to knowing who did it.
Erin Gilmour, the daughter of mining magnate David Gilmour, was 22 years old when she was stabbed, strangled and sexually assaulted in her Yorkville apartment on the night of December 20, 1983.''
''Leaning on genetic genealogy and family tree websites, Smith, who heads the Toronto Police’s Cold Case and Missing Persons division, says he and his team have identified one family unit of interest, which encompasses all male relatives, including first cousins, brothers, fathers and sons.
"We're not talking 3,000, 5,000 people, but we're talking a family unit where there's a number of people still involved," Smith said, adding that he and his team are anxious to see more DNA testing processed before narrowing down their search even further.
'It's someone from a small town in Canada'
Remaining tight-lipped about specifics, Smith said the suspect is a man from a "small town in Canada" and that he was in Toronto at the time of the murders.
He revealed that the killer is part of a "very large" family unit.
A number of those family members were also living or visiting Toronto at the time of the murders.
"We do believe that at least a number of members of the family are still alive and living in small towns throughout Canada," Smith said.''
SaintGertrude
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This is interesting as I have just been saying to someone that a killer could stalk their own family members. Is this the case here or simply that police think a family member known well to the victim.
Toronto police reveal they're narrowing in on Erin Gilmour's killer 38 years later
Toronto police reveal they're narrowing in on Erin Gilmour's killer 38 years later
Gina20
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The way this is worded is strange, isn't it?
SaintGertrude
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The murder was in the 1980's so before internet and readily available family tree sites. I find the wording really baffling almost like they are implying some kind of geneologist who keeps lists.
SaintGertrude
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Quote:
We're not talking 3,000, 5,000 people, but we're talking a family unit where there's a number of people still involved," Smith said, adding that he and his team are anxious to see more DNA testing processed before narrowing down their search even further.
'It's someone from a small town in Canada'
Remaining tight-lipped about specifics, Smith said the suspect is a man from a "small town in Canada" and that he was in Toronto at the time of the murders.
He revealed that the killer is part of a "very large" family unit.
A number of those family members were also living or visiting Toronto at the time of the murders.
"We do believe that at least a number of members of the family are still alive and living in small towns throughout Canada," Smith said.