GUILTY Canada - Taliyah Marsman, 5, & Sara Baillie, 34, Calgary, 11 July 2016 #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Yes, first degree for both

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Thanks - I'm wondering if it can be considered that because a child was abducted and later murdered, the parent was killed to gain access to the child. That would justify first degree murder charges for Sara and her daughter.

For example, the identical circumstances in the murders of Terry Blanchette and his daughter also resulted in first degree murder charges, although in that case it seemed clear that the child was the target.

"Derek Saretzky, 22, was originally charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Terry Blanchette and his two-year-old daughter Hailey Dunbar-Blanchette last September."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/derek-saretzky-jury-trial-may-2017-1.3633097
 
Thanks - I'm wondering if it can be considered that because a child was abducted and later murdered, the parent was killed to gain access to the child. That would justify first degree murder charges for Sara and her daughter. For example, the identical circumstances in the murders of Terry Blanchette and his daughter also resulted in first degree murder charges, although in that case it seemed clear that the child was the target."Derek Saretzky, 22, was originally charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Terry Blanchette and his two-year-old daughter Hailey Dunbar-Blanchette last September. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/derek-saretzky-jury-trial-may-2017-1.3633097

Since LE stated that Sara was the primary target early in the investigation, it is also possible that she was murdered during the commission of aggravated sexual assault by the alleged murderer, ED. Such an assault means the charge is first degree murder. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-273.html
 
Yeah, otto, there are a lot of similarities to the Hailey Dunbar-Blanchette case, which initially led me to also strongly suspect that child abduction was the motive here. However, it has now come out that Sara was working as an escort, and the guy was a pimp, and there was some sort of debt involved, and there was some sort of relationship... it is now strongly looking like Sara was the target (whether pre-meditated or not) and Taliyah was killed as a witness.
 
I haven't stayed on top of this case because it's simply too hard as a mom in the province.

Sara would have qualified for plenty of government support but that doesn't mean that she wanted to take advantage of those programs. Every day, you see people who want to live a lifestyle they can't afford. Sara seems as though she wanted more than her income could provide for her and Taliyah. It may have been pride, she didn't want to admit that she couldn't afford things so she pretended she could and the found a way to pay for them(escorting). She drove a 2016 ford fusion despite being a single mom working as a waitress in a location which would not provide much for tips. I have eaten at that Chili's a few times. It gets busy and does decent business but it's not really a high tipping place. Given her experience, I was surprised Sara would work in that sort of location when she could likely get a job in a higher end restaurant and make much more in tips. But it makes perfect sense if she wanted day shifts so she could save nights for escort work.

I initially thought she might have taken an airport job as a way of dealing drugs and that was the connection between her and ED. She may know ways to slip things past security as an employee.

It's all speculation until trial, but it sounds like Sara likely decided to go out on her own. Perhaps cut out ED and meet with clients on her own and take the full pay. A quote in a previously posted article said she had no problem getting in the face of the biggest guy at a party. It's quite possible ED came to talk to Sara and threaten her into giving him his cut and she got in his face, refused and things escalated from there. Which explains why Taliyah was taken, ED didn't plan to kill Sara but once he did he needed to deal with the witness. He knew Taliyah and she had possibly played with his child, he may have hesitated and been reluctant to actually kill her. I still think where she was placed was too open and it's likely he wanted her to be found out of guilt.
 
The concern is that leg shackles are a "return to the dark ages." Well, pimping, drug trafficking and weapons offences also go back to the dark ages.

And don't forget murder, specifically the murder of a child. SMH @ "the dark ages" concern.
 
Thank for posting that. I hadn't yet read that the judge rule the leg shackles could be removed for the prelim (said so in the article), the reasons and witnesses testifying are under pub ban. I know this is often requested and granted, along with wearing civilian clothes (not prison uniform), during trial to prevent jury prejudice of guilt. I wonder what the reasoning is for the prelim as that's in front of a judge only.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
 
It probably depends on the city. Sara might have made an additional 25% of her income in tips, but I suspect that she could safely claim 10% in her tax filings. That is certainly a hidden income.

It's challenging to understand why she was in debt to her second employer - was it a personal loan, or was it income where she was not passing along a percent to her employer? Which is more likely to result in conflict that caused death to her and her young daughter? Was she trying to end her relationship with her pimp and branch out on her own, and did he then step in to demand a cut of her independent income?

Getting tipouts at Chili's it's not a lot and it is a out 2-10% if you claim it depending on sales for the day . Also each server gets a percentage as well as heart of house, QA.

From the article that I read earlier on in Huffington post says that her brother MB was working in Fort Mc and was helping her with rent.
 
Hi everyone :). I've been following this case for quite some time, and have just recently read through all the comments here on WS. This case hits very close to home for me, and has been a difficult pill to swallow, but I want to offer some insight on what Human Trafficking looks like in our country. I have lost many folks to the grips of HT, and now work with survivors of HT in my career as a social services worker. I also have deep roots in Nova Scotia, and a good understanding of how NPF operates.

FIrst off, North Preston is one of the most marginalized communities in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. Over the years, it has lacked an abundance of social resources, which has often been criticized and attributed to systemic racism. NPF is often classified as a gang, but it's not really the "organized crime" we often picture when reflecting on the topic. It is more of a way of life for people from this community, having to resort to criminal activity to support themselves. The way they operate and live their lives, is attributed to an inter-generational knowledge, often passed down from father to son, uncle to nephew, brother to brother, friend to friend. Their main source of income is human sex trafficking. Whether organized or not, they are incredibly dangerous, and ruin lives. Their methods of HT date back decades, and can be traced to every major community in Canada, but most predominantly Calgary, Montreal, and the Greater Toronto Area. Most folks from Dartmouth or North Preston specifically, could be said to have "connections" to NPF, but then there are those who are deeply embedded within the gang. It's my belief that ED is one of those people.

The way traffickers in Canada and specifically in NPF operate, is they make these women believe they are choosing to engage in the sex trade. They often feel that they are making an empowered choice at first. Traffickers use the strongest of manipulation tactics, and often groom their victims for months. The women will often believe they are in a relationship with these men, or at least there is a substantial level of trust. Shortly after engaging in the sex trade, the trafficker will exercise his control over the victim to ensure that she's handing over her money to him. Eventually the women realize that they are being completely exploited, that this is no longer an empowered choice, and they try to go at it independently, or exist the trade all together. This becomes nearly impossible. The pimp ensures that the victim stays through violence, threat, coercion, and debt, stating that if they want out, they need to provide an exiting fee. This can be anywhere from $5000 to $20 000, but the fee isn't real, and the debt only continues to grow with the "you owe me for this, you owe me for that" and rarely are drugs involved. The women think the fee is real however, and feel deeply frightened that if they don't pay it, they or their loved ones will die. IF a woman is lucky enough to escape the cycle of HT and press charges (which are the majority of women I work with) these pimps rarely ever see a conviction. Their defence relies heavily on the fact that these women often agreed to enter the sex trade in the beginning. The threats and violence and coercion become too difficult to prove with our burden of proof being so high, and they often walk on these charges. They see it as a fool proof, low risk, highly profitable crime, and then they just go on to lure, groom, and exploit the next woman. It is one of the most heinous and under-reported crimes in Canada, but we are running rampant with it. The majority of my clients go on to live the rest of their lives affected by the trauma of Human Trafficking.

The good news here though, but also the most unforgiving, tragic and sickening part, is that ED isn't charged with Human Trafficking. He's charged with two counts of first degree murder, and I can only hope and assume that LE have all the evidence they need to secure the convictions. Why ED murdered SB and her daughter, I'm unable to understand at this point. My speculation, is that SB at one time showed interest in engaging in the sex trade in order to support herself, her daughter, and create a future for them, like many women often do. Sex work is not criminalized in Canada, and empowered choices to engage in it should not be met with judgement. However, she was met with ED, and it's my belief that she fell victim to the cycle of Human Trafficking to some degree.

The murder of SB and her daughter was likely never a decision made or supported by NPF. In order for women to be made a commodity, and remain profitable, they must be alive. I can only speculate, but I would attribute their murders to some sick and twisted trait of ED, and his obvious disvalue of human life.

Sorry for the length, and all in my opinion, of course. I wish I could source my lived experience for you all, but because I can't, I would suggest the book Somebody's Daughter by Phonse Jessome. It actively describes the history of NPF.

https://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-c...er-inside-the-toronto/9781551091747-item.html

Also, the author and story of one of my closest friends.

https://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-c....html?ref=item_page:richrel:rr-carousel:json1
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
70
Guests online
2,100
Total visitors
2,170

Forum statistics

Threads
601,743
Messages
18,129,141
Members
231,138
Latest member
mjF7nx
Back
Top