Identified! Canada - Tofield, AB, 'Septic Tank Sam' Ntv/WhtMale 1046UMAB, Apr'77 - Gordon Edwin Sanderson

[MistyWaters]

And, his siter had reported him missing.

Agreed.

Apparently he had multiple arrests so wondering how they missed his prints in the system. And, sister had reported him missing.

It was reported his body was believed to have already been in the septic tank for several months and it was known he was covered in quicklime so the decomposition may’ve prevented fingerprints from being taken.

 

[Vern]

<rsbm>

In Canada, a 25 year "life sentence" (for 1st degree murder) means that is the number of years they serve before they are eligible to apply for parole. They can remain in prison for many years beyond the 25 year eligibility period, and if granted parole at any time after that, they will be on parole supervision for the rest of their life.

That's new and only applies to 1st degree murder. The vast majority of those now in prison for murder will serve lesser time as the new mandatory minimum for 1st degree is not retroactive to them. Canadian juries hate convicting anyone of 1st degree (less the Bernardos of the nation) murder and defendants play the 'victim' to see their convictions come in as 2nd degree, negligent homicide or manslaughter instead.

Based my comments on data from here (Government of Canada Department of Justice Site):
Sentencing in Canada - JustFacts (justice.gc.ca)

The majority of custody sentences are for less than six months
In 2014/2015, a custodial sentence was the second most common sentence (37%). The median length of custody for all offences in Canada was 30 days and 81% of the custodial sentences were six months or less. Approximately 3% of the custodial sentences were for two years or more. Attempted murder (2,555 days) and homicide (1,825 days) cases received the longest median custodial sentences. The shortest custodial length was reported for disturbing the peace (5 days) and failing to appear (7 days).

1825 days for homicide (not 1st degree murder); that's a mere 5 years (and shorter time than those convicted of attempted murder tend to serve on average). We suck at this.

25 years minimum to serve before eligibility for parole is for 1st degree murder convictions and those are pretty rare. Usually the conviction ends up being for 2nd degree where sentences average between 10-15 years.

 

[UnlicensedPI]

The article says his sister lost touch with both brothers. I wonder if she ever regained contact with the other brother, or if he's another Doe somewhere.

RIP Gordie, I hope it's a comfort to his sister that so many strangers care about what happened to him.

 

[Feme98]

We need to get these DNA testing tools deployed to agencies sooner so that it doesn’t take decades to ID folks. The longer someone remains unidentified, the harder it is to then seek justice on their behalf.

I agree, you guys have done such an amazing job with this new field of genealogy! Props to you!

 

[branmuffin]

Sheesh. Either he is generalizing on the 50 years or his math is a bit wonky. Hard to figure out what he's basing it on. It wasn't 50 years ago .. it was 44 years (possibly 45 if he was in the tank from 3 months to 1 year earlier as originally stated in the investigation).

I think if they know who Sanderson's associates are/were there is probably a very good possibility that they know who could possibly be a POI in his death. I always thought based on the level of violence inflicted on this man and the different type of injuries: burning, shot, beaten that not only was it personal but it was inflicted by more than one person.

I'm even more intrigued by the statement Sgt. Lammerts made referring to a situation he investigated several months before Gordon was discovered. Here's a quote from an article identified in comment #156.

"Back in 1977 – only a few months before the body was found – Sgt. Lammerts, who was new to the Tofield detachment back then, responded to a call about a two to five-minute drive from the septic tank. He described the call as a “peculiar incident” but said he couldn’t “expound on that,” because if “you can’t prove it, you can’t say it.”

I'd really like to know if the call was related to this murder. If he remembers the individuals involved then maybe he knows their ages.

 

[Sillybilly]

This is from the same site those custodial stats are from, so not sure where the discrepancy lies regarding custodial sentences.

Life Sentences
In Canada, murder is either first or second degree. Persons convicted of either degree of murder must be sentenced to imprisonment for life. Persons convicted of first-degree murder are not eligible for parole until they have served at least 25 years of their sentence. Persons convicted of second-degree murder are not eligible for parole until they have served between 10 and 25 years, as determined by the Court.

I won't belabour the point further as we don't even have a perp to consider at this point, let alone a trial and a sentence.

 

[KKYYC]

I see there's already quite a few posts regarding the fact he's been identified. I came right here to see if anyone else had seen it. I haven't read much into it yet but I'm so glad this individual soul can finally have some "closure" and steps can continue forward to solve this horrific crime.

RIP Gordon Sanderson

 

[KKYYC]

Lammerts said he believes the killer is dead by now but said that if he is still living, he is unlikely to face justice.

"How [are] you going to punish the guy now anyway?" Lammerts said. "You going to send an 82-year-old guy to jail now? What do you do with an 82-year-old man that killed somebody 50 years ago?"

Quote from the CBC article. From the former RCMP corporal at the time. A little jarring he feels that way.... Considering the horrific way Sanderson was murdered, you put the guy in jail. Regardless of age. If he's still alive of course.

 

[Feme98]

I think if they know who Sanderson's associates are/were there is probably a very good possibility that they know who could possibly be a POI in his death. I always thought based on the level of violence inflicted on this man and the different type of injuries: burning, shot, beaten that not only was it personal but it was inflicted by more than one person.

I'm even more intrigued by the statement Sgt. Lammerts made referring to a situation he investigated several months before Gordon was discovered. Here's a quote from an article identified in comment #156.

"Back in 1977 – only a few months before the body was found – Sgt. Lammerts, who was new to the Tofield detachment back then, responded to a call about a two to five-minute drive from the septic tank. He described the call as a “peculiar incident” but said he couldn’t “expound on that,” because if “you can’t prove it, you can’t say it.”

I'd really like to know if the call was related to this murder. If he remembers the individuals involved then maybe he knows their ages.

I’d be good if they had a record of the person calling.

 

[Springrain]

I acknowledge I may be wrong, but to me, this screams hate crime. While no type of murder is "normal" this was just too violent and horrid. And I highly doubt it's a "vigilante" situation like others have proposed (mutilating his genitals because he molested a child or something) because, imo, real life is not like Dexter and that's just not a common thing. I could be wrong. But, imo, he was likely targeted at least in part due to being First Nations.

 

[Feme98]

I acknowledge I may be wrong, but to me, this screams hate crime. While no type of murder is "normal" this was just too violent and horrid. And I highly doubt it's a "vigilante" situation like others have proposed (mutilating his genitals because he molested a child or something) because, imo, real life is not like Dexter and that's just not a common thing. I could be wrong. But, imo, he was likely targeted at least in part due to being First Nations.

I agree, I wonder if perhaps the group in which Gordon was involved had something to do with this.

Given the fact that this seemed personal, and by how LE said that it was most likely that he was killed by someone he knew.

I wonder if they’d eventually get in touch with Gordon’s friends or maybe, someone who knew of anybody that was part of that group.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree, I wonder if perhaps the group in which Gordon was involved had something to do with this.

Given the fact that this seemed personal, and by how LE said that it was most likely that he was killed by someone he knew.

I wonder if they’d eventually get in touch with Gordon’s friends or maybe, someone who knew of anybody that was part of that group.

It appears the RCMP have already looked into that possibility. Is “associates involved in various criminal acts” a watered-down reference to gang members? Oddly I recall this same theory being considered on this thread as well.

“RCMP believe Sanderson was killed by associates of his involved in various criminal acts in the Edmonton area. However, they do acknowledge that his killer may not be alive today…

…….Between the passage of time and just some of the lifestyles that people were involved in at the time as well it’s very possible that they have passed away.…..”
RCMP use DNA to identify homicide victim after 40 years

 

[Springrain]

I haven't seen this mentioned here (may have missed it, because I was at work), but his Wikipedia article says Gordon had a daughter. I feel for her so much; I can't imagine how traumatic it would be to discover your father was killed in such a horrific way.

 

[Springrain]

Also, while I want to understand where the investigator is coming from with his remarks about the fate of Gordon's killer(s), I think it's ridiculous and frankly offensive, at least in the way he stated it. I'm rereading what exactly happened to this poor man and it was even more brutal than I had remembered. I don't care if his killer is an 82-year-old grandpa with a walker and a lapdog. Gordon's killer tied him up to a bed, tortured him, burned him, sexually mutilated him to the point where it took investigators a long time to determine his sex, and dumped his body in a septic tank. I don't care if the killer is just perceived as some "harmless old man" now! He needs to face JUSTICE for the abhorrent things he has done! So what if he's an octogenarian now. Lock him up and throw away the key. He can spend the rest of his life rotting in the Canadian prison system. imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Either this media report was edited after I read it or I missed a part of it earlier. The true identification of “Sam” must’ve been a crushing heartbreak for his daughter who was probably too young to have known her father very well at the time of his disappearance.

While we’ve learned of Sam’s identity, it seems to add more questions than answers. One question would be how does one end up east of Edmonton, in Tofield, considering Calgary is located a couple hundred miles due south.

“(Sanderson) was last heard of by family when he was going to meet his younger brother, Arthur, in Calgary,” he said. “Sadly, Gordie did not make it to that meeting.”

“Zazulak added that Sanderson also has a daughter.”
Body of man found in Alberta septic tank in 1977 identified using genetic genealogy: RCMP

 

[MistyWaters]

Also, while I want to understand where the investigator is coming from with his remarks about the fate of Gordon's killer(s), I think it's ridiculous and frankly offensive, at least in the way he stated it. I'm rereading what exactly happened to this poor man and it was even more brutal than I had remembered. I don't care if his killer is an 82-year-old grandpa with a walker and a lapdog. Gordon's killer tied him up to a bed, tortured him, burned him, sexually mutilated him to the point where it took investigators a long time to determine his sex, and dumped his body in a septic tank. I don't care if the killer is just perceived as some "harmless old man" now! He needs to face JUSTICE for the abhorrent things he has done! So what if he's an octogenarian now. Lock him up and throw away the key. He can spend the rest of his life rotting in the Canadian prison system. imo.

I think we have no reason to assume the 80 year old retired police police officer is aware of the identity of the killer. This probably was the biggest case of his policing career, which he was in successful at solving and while the media might be interested in his comments, his opinion has no bearing whatsoever in the current investigation.

In fact he earlier stated he believed the identity of Sam would never be determined and he was wrong about that. So he may be expressing sour grapes at the RCMPs longterm and compelling efforts to put a proper name to Sam, in essence because he failed, now he’s saying too much time has passed, it doesn’t matter now. If so, I strongly disagree, as every victims deserves a name including Gordon Sanderson, even if finally discovering his identity doesn’t lead to an arrest. JMO

 

[Springrain]

I think we have no reason to assume the 80 year old retired police police officer is aware of the identity of the killer. This probably was the biggest case of his policing career, which he was in successful at solving and while the media might be interested in his comments, his opinion has no bearing whatsoever in the current investigation.

In fact he earlier stated he believed the identity of Sam would never be determined and he was wrong about that. So he may be expressing sour grapes at the RCMPs longterm and compelling efforts to put a proper name to Sam, in essence because he failed, now he’s saying too much time has passed, it doesn’t matter now. If so, I strongly disagree, as every victims deserves a name including Gordon Sanderson, even if finally discovering his identity doesn’t lead to an arrest. JMO

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that he knew who the killer(s) is/are. I didn't get that. I was referring more so to his vibe being "well, what are we gonna do, even if we find out who killed Gordon, lock up an 82-year-old man?" I find that very disrespectful, and careless.

 

[MistyWaters]

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that he knew who the killer(s) is/are. I didn't get that. I was referring more so to his vibe being "well, what are we gonna do, even if we find out who killed Gordon, lock up an 82-year-old man?" I find that very disrespectful, and careless.

I totally agree. That’s why his comments strike me as deflating and condescending, coming from a retired senior guy who in reality may just be somewhat ornery at the fact the new bright, younger Staff Sgt at the Tofield detachment accomplished something, albeit with othram's assistance, which he was unsuccessful at achieving during his own policing career.

It seems the Tofield RCMP detachment isn’t concerned about his opinion either.

“(Zazulak) said police identified Sanderson in January and the case became an active homicide investigation.”
Body of man found in Alberta septic tank in 1977 identified using genetic genealogy: RCMP

 

[Feme98]

Do we know if Gordon was reported missing? It is known that he was last seen on his way to visit his brother, I wonder if that happened in early 1977.

 

[Valiant]

Do we know if Gordon was reported missing? It is known that he was last seen on his way to visit his brother, I wonder if that happened in early 1977.

He apparently was reported missing some years later by his sister.
Body of man found in Alberta septic tank in 1977 identified using genetic genealogy: RCMP