CANADA Canada - Victoria Crow Shoe, 43, Lethbridge, AB, 26 Aug 2015

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What has been done to identify what happened to Victoria? We know what was done to find Hailey, but she is a 2 year old who was discovered missing almost 24 hours after her father was murdered.

Victoria's body surfaced in a reservoir, was discovered by a fisherman, and what has been done since? I've always been sceptical that the murder of an aboriginal woman is treated differently than that of a woman of another race (aboriginal is Asian), and I understand that police react more slowly when the disappearance is reported long after the victim was last seen, but in this case the discovery of the body coincided with learning the name of the victim. That is, her body was discovered fairly quickly (contrary to the numerous missing aboriginal women in Canada).

What are police doing ... other than asking acquaintances for more information about when she was last seen? That's certainly one avenue to pursue, but what about a dive team to search the lake? Apparently she was last seen on August 31 by acquaintances. Where was she seen? Was it a bar? Have police asked people who were in that bar that night to come forward? Was she last seen at a party? at work? at dinner? Where did the acquaintances last see her and why haven't police asked the public for information about that time and location?

Although she was found two weeks after she was last seen on August 31, was any CCTV footage requested or retained from the last place where she was seen by acquaintances, and the route from that location West towards the Oldman Dam?
 
Clouddippingdown said:
Working at the Superlodge motel may have made her an easy target. She was last seen by associates on August 31; this would mean co-workers? I wonder if she was driving her own vehicle at that time. This gives me the shivers being another native woman found murdered and if she was last seen leaving work then it brings to mind Amber Tuccaro in similarities. I hope LE brings some equations to this that states otherwise.
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Was Victoria a prostitute? She was working at the hotel on August 31? Is that where the "acquaintances" last saw her? What time of day was that and what was she doing next?

If this is a serial sexual predator and prostitutes are victims, then it has nothing to do with race (aboriginal/First Nations) - it's about prostitutes being easy victims.

Is it possible that Victoria was working at the hotel on August 31, and she made new friends at work, and she left work to spend time with her new friends? ... then she ended up in the reservoir North of Pincher Creek? If that happened, that's not good - suggests a rather cold person who would befriend her at work, murder her, and leave her in the reservoir. It's easier to believe that her partner did this, as it lets the community believe that it is not random; that they are safe.

Is Derek Saretsky responsible? It's already being questioned that he murdered a retired grandmother, and a two year old girl. He had connections with both of them. Perhaps he did know the daughter's of the fourth victim.
 
This is a bit of a crazy way of thinking about it, but what if Saretzky was really pissed off at some women, so he took the daughter of his friend, Cheyenne, the mother of girls he met in high school, Victoria, and the mother of someone he probably knew as a young child while visiting his grandparent's neighbour, Hanne.

That's totally farfetched, but perhaps serial murderers think like that.
 
What have the RCMP done to solve the murder of Victoria Crowshoe after a fisherman reported finding her body in the Oldman Dam Reservoir?

RCMP know that Vickie's friends last saw her on August 31. What were the circumstances where she was last seen by "acquaintances"? Have RCMP checked CCTV? Have RCMP put a dive team into the reservoir where Victoria's body was found?

If this was my sister, and I'm not aboriginal, I would expect more from the RCMP.

Can they step up, or is there still a culture of derogatory rudeness towards aboriginal women ... and moreso for women who are not of European descent? If I were Asian, could I lie in a lake when no one knows that I'm missing? Could my daughter not notice that I am missing for two weeks?

The murderer of Victoria Crowshoe is probably not finished with murder after murdering a mom in a lake near Pincher Creek. Chances are that the person who left Victoria Crowshoe in the Reservoir will do this again, and only perhaps then will he be found.
 
otto said:
Victoria raised her daughters in the Crowsnest Pass area.

Given that her body was found between Lethbridge and Blairmore, perhaps her murderer picked her up in Lethbridge, drove her to Windy Point Campground near the Oldman Dam to party, murdered her, and then continued on to Blairmore.

  • Funeral in Calgary
  • School in Clareholm
  • Raised children in Crowsnest Pass area
  • Lived in Lethbridge
  • Body at Windy Point Campground, Oldman Dam Reservoir

http://www.mhfh.com/crowshoe-victoria-vickie-joanna/
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With the only difference being that perhaps he offered a ride to the CNP. Imo, given the proximity and timing it would only seem reasonable that if he didn't want her body to be found, it wouldn't have been. What are the odds that Victoria's body washes up on shore and is discovered the day before all hell breaks loose in Blairmore? Placement comes to mind, simply because of the odds as in equated factors.
 
Clouddippingdown said:
With the only difference being that perhaps he offered a ride to the CNP. Imo, given the proximity and timing it would only seem reasonable that if he didn't want her body to be found, it wouldn't have been. What are the odds that Victoria's body washes up on shore and is discovered the day before all hell breaks loose in Blairmore? Placement comes to mind, simply because of the odds as in equated factors.
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Victoria was last seen on August 31 for colleagues, associates, and friends. She was last seen by family on August 26.

What was she doing that she accepted a ride from the person who murdered her? Was he a friend, and spouse, a partner? How did she get from Edmonton to the Oldman Dam? Was she drugged and abducted?

What happened that she was unable to look out for herself? Hannah Graham, of Virginia, was out one evening, drugged, taken to a remote location, and murdered. Is that what happened here?

What are the chances that a body surfaces two weeks after it was put into the water? Does the fact that the body surfaced 15 days after Victoria was accounted for have something to do with the murders of Terry and Hailey? The neighbour was murdered on September 9? Victoria on or about August 31? Terry and Hailey on or about September 15?
 
otto said:
This is a bit of a crazy way of thinking about it, but what if Saretzky was really pissed off at some women, so he took the daughter of his friend, Cheyenne, the mother of girls he met in high school, Victoria, and the mother of someone he probably knew as a young child while visiting his grandparent's neighbour, Hanne.

That's totally farfetched, but perhaps serial murderers think like that.
Click to expand...

That is not a crazy way of thinking, nor is it totally farfetched; rather creative. Do you not think that serial predator's (as the RCMP prefers to term them) think creatively in their own morbid, destructive way? If you keep travelling down this path of creative thinking then what you have is a daughter, a mother, a father and an elderly woman portraying a Grandmother image. The only one that is missing is the Grandfather and why would this be? Image reflection imo, is very important to SK's for the only identity that they see that is worthy is in the mirror that they are constantly holding in front of them. If you apply this method of thinking then what you have is a symbolic meaning. Is it even possible for a 22 year old mind to arrange this type of symbolic sequence and to carry it out on his own in the state of mind that would parallel a mad rage sequence with the given intervals of each murder? In other words I would not expect a 22 year old to maintain the level of inner rage required to commit all of these murders over the given time that they occurred. I would, however, expect a cold blooded killer with many years experience to be able to sequence in this manner. It has to do with the level of anger required and the ability to hold that level over the time line indicated by the murders in sequencing without letting the fear of being caught grab you and pin you to the floor because it's that fear that would stop him from murdering again; otherwise known as the cooling off period. Imo, two emotional status's for a SK; anger and fear, as time passes so does the fear and one replaces the other.

It is interesting that all of these victims had connections to DS and his area; but it's highly doubtful that at the age of 22; regardless of his psychological dysfunction, he had the baseline of anger, fear ratio in place to allow him to carry out all of the murders with the intervals indicated without help. If these were all to be connected it would need to be the work of a much older masochistic sociopath who could maintain his fear level throughout that timeline. And if these are all connected then Saretzky takes on the appearance of a runner (someone who prepares the list) with very little doubt that he did kill Terry and abduct Hailey, which is where the strength of his comfort zone through the use of the company van and his aunt's property is reflected.

The way in which you line them up like that, it does look like a list. So when you say that perhaps serial murderers think like that then I would need to agree; however, not until such time as their evolutionary status has gained the variance that all the victims display by way of stereotyping and that's generally a process that should take years. Of course, this is just theory and MOO.
 
otto said:
Victoria was last seen on August 31 for colleagues, associates, and friends. She was last seen by family on August 26.

What was she doing that she accepted a ride from the person who murdered her? Was he a friend, and spouse, a partner? How did she get from Edmonton to the Oldman Dam? Was she drugged and abducted?

What happened that she was unable to look out for herself? Hannah Graham, of Virginia, was out one evening, drugged, taken to a remote location, and murdered. Is that what happened here?

What are the chances that a body surfaces two weeks after it was put into the water? Does the fact that the body surfaced 15 days after Victoria was accounted for have something to do with the murders of Terry and Hailey? The neighbour was murdered on September 9? Victoria on or about August 31? Terry and Hailey on or about September 15?
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Where did you hear that she was in Edmonton?? There is a possibility that she was taken somewhere and kept alive for awhile. Who knows, maybe even she was kept at DS's aunt's acreage (have we heard that it wasn't vacant at the time?) in one of those many trailers and then taken to the Oldman Dam and dumped just a few days before Terry's murder and Hailey's abduction.
 
In saying that, I still do not believe that DS would psychologically be able to co-ordinate that on his own.

In so far as the RCMP and what they're doing about the black eye that Victoria's case may, if not already has given them (and you can bet that if her case is not solved quickly as being domestic related, it's going to be a shiner, considering the fact that a daddy and his 2yr old baby girl were found murdered just down the road); is anyone's guess. I won't be one to criticize their policies; however, I can hear the drums beating in the distance.
 
otto said:
What has been done to identify what happened to Victoria? We know what was done to find Hailey, but she is a 2 year old who was discovered missing almost 24 hours after her father was murdered.

Victoria's body surfaced in a reservoir, was discovered by a fisherman, and what has been done since? I've always been sceptical that the murder of an aboriginal woman is treated differently than that of a woman of another race (aboriginal is Asian), and I understand that police react more slowly when the disappearance is reported long after the victim was last seen, but in this case the discovery of the body coincided with learning the name of the victim. That is, her body was discovered fairly quickly (contrary to the numerous missing aboriginal women in Canada).

What are police doing ... other than asking acquaintances for more information about when she was last seen? That's certainly one avenue to pursue, but what about a dive team to search the lake? Apparently she was last seen on August 31 by acquaintances. Where was she seen? Was it a bar? Have police asked people who were in that bar that night to come forward? Was she last seen at a party? at work? at dinner? Where did the acquaintances last see her and why haven't police asked the public for information about that time and location?

Although she was found two weeks after she was last seen on August 31, was any CCTV footage requested or retained from the last place where she was seen by acquaintances, and the route from that location West towards the Oldman Dam?
Click to expand...

http://www.amnesty.ca/our-work/campaigns/no-more-stolen-sisters
Amnesty International wishes people would be less skeptical about this very real issue. This page is a good starting point for anyone who may be interested in this matter or have concerns about these women; lots of links to follow, lots of facts and stats.

http://aptn.ca/news/2015/09/09/stephen-harpers-longest-war-missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women/
Our current government is beyond apathetic.

This is a vast, complex issue. I get it. But please don't think that because the issue is hard to understand that it doesn't exist.

This isn't directed at you, Otto, just merely jumping off your point of skepticism as it is a popular opinion that many people hold.
 
dotr said:
Many missing Aboriginals seem to be located in water, imo.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...uths-died-in-10-years&p=12099698#post12099698
Canada, First Nations student deaths inquest: 7 youths died in 10 years
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Either in water or in the bush, as in the Leduc murders. I believe that location is based on the most convenient disposal.

Look at Edmonton all the way out Hwy 16 to Prince George and to the Coast, the missing and murdered Aboriginal women are piled high. And they're still trying to pound the domestic salt up our butts. The public is not ignorant or blind. I believe firmly that these women have been targeted by killers because they know the cases will sit on the desks and collect dust, despite the tips and information that LE receives, imo. I know this sounds harsh, but the stark reality of it is that it's as if it's become a business and I believe that what those who profit from this business don't realize is that there would still be work, just not with all the pain and suffering attached. And in order to understand that concept one would need to lower themselves from the pedestal that they have put themselves upon.

On the subject of "getting it" or "understanding it", no one truly does until they nearly or become a victim or until they are close to a victim. That is when the blunt force of the reality and all of it's trauma sets in and takes ahold of a person. That is when understanding becomes reality because there's a world of difference in sitting behind a desk as opposed to being on that last ride, so all of the Politicians can blow smoke in any direction that they want because they have no idea about the pain and suffering that their minimizing. And when they talk about budgets, proposals and inquests, imo, the only thing they are doing is inflicting more wounds upon the already wounded because the real healing comes at ground zero with the arrest and justice associated with the conviction of the one responsible for those wounds. Once inflicted you will never walk free. MOO
 
Clouddippingdown said:
Either in water or in the bush, as in the Leduc murders. I believe that location is based on the most convenient disposal.

Look at Edmonton all the way out Hwy 16 to Prince George and to the Coast, the missing and murdered Aboriginal women are piled high. And they're still trying to pound the domestic salt up our butts. The public is not ignorant or blind. I believe firmly that these women have been targeted by killers because they know the cases will sit on the desks and collect dust, despite the tips and information that LE receives, imo. I know this sounds harsh, but the stark reality of it is that it's as if it's become a business and I believe that what those who profit from this business don't realize is that there would still be work, just not with all the pain and suffering attached. And in order to understand that concept one would need to lower themselves from the pedestal that they have put themselves upon.

On the subject of "getting it" or "understanding it", no one truly does until they nearly or become a victim or until they are close to a victim. That is when the blunt force of the reality and all of it's trauma sets in and takes ahold of a person. That is when understanding becomes reality because there's a world of difference in sitting behind a desk as opposed to being on that last ride, so all of the Politicians can blow smoke in any direction that they want because they have no idea about the pain and suffering that their minimizing. And when they talk about budgets, proposals and inquests, imo, the only thing they are doing is inflicting more wounds upon the already wounded because the real healing comes at ground zero with the arrest and justice associated with the conviction of the one responsible for those wounds. Once inflicted you will never walk free. MOO
Click to expand...

The highway of tears is not an aboriginal issue. A man from the US is responsible for some of the murders, and there's nothing to suggest that he targeted women because of race. Instead, victims along Hwy 16 became victims because they were hitch hiking, or in the wrong place at the wrong time. The race of the victims varies.

https://cupcakesandhoodies.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/missing-women-highway-of-tears-news.jpg

That said, I hope that the investigation into Victoria's murder is thorough, and that it is not treated as a low priority investigation because the victim was not reported missing for two weeks, that she was unemployed, or because of lifestyle.
 
otto said:
The highway of tears is not an aboriginal issue. A man from the US is responsible for some of the murders, and there's nothing to suggest that he targeted women because of race. Instead, victims along Hwy 16 became victims because they were hitch hiking, or in the wrong place at the wrong time. The race of the victims varies.

https://cupcakesandhoodies.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/missing-women-highway-of-tears-news.jpg

That said, I hope that the investigation into Victoria's murder is thorough, and that it is not treated as a low priority investigation because the victim was not reported missing for two weeks, that she was unemployed, or because of lifestyle.
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Yes, to some extent; however, the majority have been Aboriginal and that could be indicative of the region. However; it is First Nations that picked up the torch and moved forward with it to the United Nations. In so far as Bobby Jack Fowler; dna evidence led the RCMP to believe that he was responsible for Colleen MacMillen's death and only suspected in Pamela Darlington and Gale Weys deaths. There is still much to be done, imo.

I too, hope that Victoria's murder is given the utmost consideration.

http://www.cbc.ca/1.3093034
https://shar.es/17SM40
 
10376921_965771186794961_6554112969285975518_n.jpg

I must have missed seeing this if someone already posted it but this is Victoria's "missing/homicide" poster. I'm assuming the picture of her is a video still from her last known whereabouts. Her clothes in the picture match the clothes in the description. This is good news. At least RCMP know where she was hanging out before she disappeared.
 
I can't for the life of me find the link I saw the other day; it referred to the RCMP commencing diving/dragging operations in many areas in regards to the many missing persons in the region. I will keep looking.
 
spinnaweb said:
I can't for the life of me find the link I saw the other day; it referred to the RCMP commencing diving/dragging operations in many areas in regards to the many missing persons in the region. I will keep looking.
Click to expand...

Maybe this link?

http://globalnews.ca/news/2248546/lethbridge-missing-persons-cases-targeted-in-rcmp-aerial-search/
"The RCMP is sweeping the Bow, South Saskatchewan and the Oldman Rivers looking for human remains.

The aerial search is not directed at any one particular missing persons’ investigation, but is aimed at finding any evidence or bodies spanning from Calgary to the Saskatchewan border.

There are currently 27 missing people who have been reported to the RCMP, Medicine Hat Police or Lethbridge Regional Police Service; two of them are known to have entered a river and have not been found.

During the two-day operation, RCMP are using two specially-trained spotters in the helicopter while they scour every inch of the rivers. If something is located in the Lethbridge area, a ground search and recovery operation will be launched- including the Fire Department boat."
 
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