Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, Oct 2017 #1

[Lilibet]

I understood what she was getting at, which is why I thought it was an ironic phrase to use. Because those same rigid beliefs are what landed them in such a terrible situation in the first place.

Gotcha.

 

[bears10]

It's interesting that the US doesn't acknowledge Canada in the release.

"“Canada has been actively engaged on Mr. Boyle’s case at all levels, and we will continue to support him and his family now that they have returned.

“At this time, we ask that the privacy of Mr. Boyle’s family be respected.”

https://www.canada.ca/en/global-aff...a_welcomes_arrivalofjoshuaboyleandfamily.html

Without knowing what Canada did and what they mean by actively engaged in the case, I can’t say whether or not I think it’s strange the US didn’t mention them.

 

[bluesneakers]

Without knowing what Canada did and what they mean by actively engaged in the case, I can’t say whether or not I think it’s strange the US didn’t mention them.

I agree it's hard to know what was behind it, but it's a big deal for Canada to be acknowledged by the USA and when it is (or isn't) people notice. It probably means nothing other than this is a delicate situation and officials are being careful and guarded about what they say.

 

[Lilibet]

Without knowing what Canada did and what they mean by actively engaged in the case, I can’t say whether or not I think it’s strange the US didn’t mention them.

I took it to mean that the U.S. was talking only about the release, and it doesn’t seem that Canada played a direct part in that. If that’s the case, I don’t think it’s strange that the U.S. didn’t mention Canada, although it would have been nice to acknowledge their efforts over the years. And it would have been nice for Canada to acknowledge the U.S. role in the release of their citizen. Diplomatic language is deliberately hard to interpret, I think. But there doesn’t seem to be a desire to indicate cooperation.

 

[bears10]

I agree it's hard to know what was behind it, but it's a big deal for Canada to be acknowledged by the USA and when it is (or isn't) people notice. It probably means nothing other than this is a delicate situation and officials are being careful and guarded about what they say.

I try to stay out of politics as much as possible so I didn’t know it’s a big deal to be honest. We all know the US govt can come across cocky. I say that as someone who lives in the US. If Canada didn’t say they were involved, I wouldn’t have had any idea. I wouldn’t have blamed them if they weren’t very involved considering JBs ties to terrorism.

ETA Canada’s statement showed emotion whereas I don’t remember ours showing the same.

 

[Intermezzo]

I just read this article from 2014, I found it interesting and mentions, without giving detailed information, about an intermediary that the Boyle family used and the proof of life videos.
I did read elsewhere about the numerous agencies and people who have helped the Boyle's since Josh and Caitlin were kidnapped. I will try to find that article again.

In this article it says the couple flew to Moscow from New York, so as of 2012 the US admitted Josh into the country and Josh had no issues or concerns about entering the US then, but he does now after being in captivity.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...r_son_daughterinlaw_kidnapped_by_taliban.html July 26 2014


Family keeps hope alive for son, daughter-in-law kidnapped by Taliban July 26, 2014

On July 4, 2012, they flew to Moscow from New York and had hiked through Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan before crossing into Afghanistan around Oct. 3 or 4. There was an email from Kabul and then all contact was lost.

They had a return ticket for December 2012.

During the first six months of their capture when there was no news, Patrick got a visa for Afghanistan and planned to fly to Kabul to try to establish contact himself.

“Both governments insisted they didn’t know any specifics and nobody had contacted anybody directly or indirectly or made any claims,” Patrick said. “So I planned on showing up and sitting in a Canada Day lawn chair and wearing a Canada Day sweatshirt in the lobby at the Serena Hotel.”

 

[Intermezzo]

There have been more than one statement from the Canadian government

Below is a statement from Oct 12 from The Honourable Chrystia Freeland, Minister of Foreign Affairs,

https://www.canada.ca/en/global-aff...oreignaffairsonreleaseofjoshuaboylecaitl.html



October 12, 2017 - Ottawa, Ontario - Global Affairs Canada

The Honourable Chrystia Freeland, Minister of Foreign Affairs, today issued the following statement on the release of Joshua Boyle, Caitlan Coleman and their children:

“We are greatly relieved that after being held hostage for five years, Joshua Boyle and his wife Caitlan Coleman, as well as their young children, have been released and are safe.

“Canada has been actively engaged with the governments of the United States, Afghanistan and Pakistan and we thank them for their efforts, which have resulted in the release of Joshua, Caitlan and their children.

“Joshua, Caitlan, their children and the Boyle and Coleman families have endured a horrible ordeal over the past five years. We stand ready to support them as they begin their healing journey.

“We ask that the families’ privacy be respected.”

 

[Intermezzo]

The Boyle's hired a security consultant who was retired from CSIS (Canadian Security Intelligence Service) our version of the CIA. The family also repeatedly met with The High Commissioner of Pakistan in Ottawa over the years and other gov't officials.

Patrick Boyle, left, his wife Linda and security consultant Andy Ellis talk to Canadian and U.S. officials about the release of their son, Joshua Boyle, his wife, Caitlan Coleman, and their three children. The couple had been held hostage for five years by the Taliban-linked Haqqani network.


https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...and-his-family-heard-from-the-kidnappers.html Oct 12, 2017

Canadian and U.S. officials have dismissed any connection of his kidnapping with his involvement with the Khadr family.

 

[Intermezzo]

Regarding Caitlan's children born in captivity-- a competent attorney, either in Canada or the U.S., will be able to begin to establish identity and citizenship documentation for the children pretty rapidly. Within days to weeks of their arrival. Their situation, and that of their parents, has been so well documented for so long, that this identification documentation process will, IMO, move rather smoothly. I think they will likely have dual Canadian/ US citizenship. That will give them, and Caitlan, lots of flexibility as to moving across the border, if or when Caitlan wants to do so.

I think Joshua Boyle likely has limits on his ability to freely enter the U.S. because of his behavior, ties, and previous history.

No links, but my common sense informs me that Joshua Boyle will likely be under very close observation/ monitoring, and scrutiny, for many years by both Canadian and U.S. authorities. I don't think it's impossible that he will eventually face some serious charges. This isn't a case of mere immature stupidity/ hubris/ naviete (like Lindhout and Saberi, IMO).

I wish Caitlan would leave him, but I doubt she will.

Not sure if this was posted-- didn't see it earlier in the thread. Press release statement from U.S. SOS Tillerson from Oct 12. It is interestingly "non committal" toward JB and CC, and instead praises diplomatic relationships. Really-- not a single word of support or praise toward CC/ JB, or even that they were grateful or welcomed home. It is what is not said, IMO, that is revealing. Some might say that is typical for a SOS release, but IMO,it is very linguistically stark in its comments on the rescued hostages, who are typically referred to in slightly more diplomatically sympathetic and warm words. For example, only that they are "safe and secure". I understand not criticizing in any way the Pakistani government, but it is odd/ revealing that the hostages are minimized almost as objects, not a family with small children.



https://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2017/10/274751.htm

Thank You for your post KZ.
I agree with your comment about the children and citizenship.
In regards to Josh's possible limits to enter the US, I just read that when they started out on this journey in 2012 they traveled from Canada, to New York and from there they flew to Moscow. The US Customs and Border Patrol had no issues allowing him entry into the US at that time.

The US and Canadian gov'ts have both repeatedly stated over the years and even after the family's release that Boyle was not under any investigation by the RCMP nor the FBI.

 

[bears10]

Thank You for your post KZ.
I agree with your comment about the children and citizenship.
In regards to Josh's possible limits to enter the US, I just read that when they started out on this journey in 2012 they traveled from Canada, to New York and from there they flew to Moscow. The US Customs and Border Patrol had no issues allowing him entry into the US at that time.

The US and Canadian gov'ts have both repeatedly stated over the years and even after the family's release that Boyle was not under any investigation by the RCMP nor the FBI.

Well JB is paranoid about entering the US so that says something to me. I have to say, I do think they would probably like to speak with him if he crossed the border. He was married to someone tied to bin laden, was obsessed with terrorism, flew into Russia bc he knew he would be able to fly right to Afghanistan, has exhibited questionable behavior and said questionable things since his return, and instead of being grateful that the US came to rescue him and his family from captivity, he refused to get on the US aircraft.

I don’t recall the US saying he wasn’t under investigation, which he likely wasn’t considering he was in captivity thousands of miles away, but I do recall them saying they don’t have reason to believe their kidnapping was related to his previous marriage. Which I took to mean they weren’t kidnapped bc of his ex wife’s ties.

 

[Intermezzo]

Yes, He is paranoid now. I don't doubt that and his recent comments have me curious of his interests
Yet I am curious as to why he feels that way now. He claims its because of his previous history BUT he married and divorced Zaynab Khadr in 2009-2010.
Neither gov't had him under investigation back then, though the Canadian Gov't did have Zaynab under investigation. The Khadr family is a big story in itself in regards to terrorism.

What I am saying is that I don't understand his concern that the US will arrest him now, after spending 5 years in captivity, when they didn't arrest him when he entered the US in 2012 in order to fly to Moscow from New York.

If he wasn't under suspicion or investigation before 2012 or while he was married to Zaynab why would his captivity or his time during captivity now change that?

Here is one statement about him not being under investigation

https://globalnews.ca/news/3801502/joshua-boyle-parents-forgive-foolishness-family-readjust-canada/

in the late 2000s, Joshua Boyle had been briefly married to the sister of former Guantanamo Bay inmate Omar Khadr.

Although he has no links to the family now, Boyle refused to get on a military plane to a U.S. base in Bagram, Afghanistan on Thursday, preferring to fly directly to the Canadian High Commission in Islamabad, Pakistan. His parents say he simply wanted to get home to Canada as fast as possible.

Authorities on both sides of the Canada-U.S. border have maintained that Boyle is not under any kind of investigation.

 

[bears10]

Yes, He is paranoid now. I don't doubt that and his recent comments have me curious of his interests
Yet I am curious as to why he feels that way now. He claims its because of his previous history BUT he married and divorced Zaynab Khadr in 2009-2010.
Neither gov't had him under investigation back then, though the Canadian Gov't did have Zaynab under investigation. The Khadr family is a big story in itself in regards to terrorism.

What I am saying is that I don't understand his concern that the US will arrest him now, after spending 5 years in captivity, when they didn't arrest him when he entered the US in 2012 in order to fly to Moscow from New York.

If he wasn't under suspicion before 2012 or while he was married to Zaynab why would his captivity or his time during captivity now change that?

Here is one statement about him not being under investigation

https://globalnews.ca/news/3801502/joshua-boyle-parents-forgive-foolishness-family-readjust-canada/

in the late 2000s, Joshua Boyle had been briefly married to the sister of former Guantanamo Bay inmate Omar Khadr.

Although he has no links to the family now, Boyle refused to get on a military plane to a U.S. base in Bagram, Afghanistan on Thursday, preferring to fly directly to the Canadian High Commission in Islamabad, Pakistan. His parents say he simply wanted to get home to Canada as fast as possible.

Authorities on both sides of the Canada-U.S. border have maintained that Boyle is not under any kind of investigation.

Wanting to speak with someone is not the same as arresting them in the US, just FYI.

I also don’t see why he’d be under investigation in the US if he’s a Canadian citizen. The US probably couldn’t have cared less who he was before he was captured by the Taliban while with his American wife.

If zaynab was a US citizen and an American man who claimed to write every Wikipedia article on terrorism married her, then I’m pretty sure he’d raise flags for our government. But they are Canadian, not US citizens. We have our own problems to deal with. JMO

 

[Intermezzo]

This article is new to me, not sure if it was previously posted on this thread.
There are references to emails Caitlin sent friends before they were captured and she mentioned to her parents that they were going to the "safe stans" and not to Afganistan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...as-a-taliban-prisoner/?utm_term=.f269fde824fb

Inside American Caitlan Coleman’s five-year ordeal as a Taliban prisoner OCT 13

July 4, 2012: Shortly before she hopped on a plane, Coleman sent an email to her friends. “Our flight leaves at 4 p.m.," she wrote. “Only God knows exactly where it will lead or what all can be accomplished, seen, experienced or learned while we travel. So we put ourselves in His hands.”

Coleman and Boyle planned to spend several months hiking through Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, the “safe ’stans,” Coleman told her parents. She promised that she wouldn't go to Afghanistan, though Boyle was fascinated by the country. Coleman and Boyle had another secret, too — Coleman was pregnant.

 

[bears10]

This article is new to me, not sure if it was previously posted on this thread.
There are references to emails Caitlin sent friends before they were captured and she mentioned to her parents that they were going to the "safe stans" and not to Afganistan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...as-a-taliban-prisoner/?utm_term=.f269fde824fb

Inside American Caitlan Coleman’s five-year ordeal as a Taliban prisoner OCT 13

July 4, 2012: Shortly before she hopped on a plane, Coleman sent an email to her friends. “Our flight leaves at 4 p.m.," she wrote. “Only God knows exactly where it will lead or what all can be accomplished, seen, experienced or learned while we travel. So we put ourselves in His hands.”

Coleman and Boyle planned to spend several months hiking through Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, the “safe ’stans,” Coleman told her parents. She promised that she wouldn't go to Afghanistan, though Boyle was fascinated by the country. Coleman and Boyle had another secret, too — Coleman was pregnant.

Very interesting that she promised she wouldn’t go to Afganistan even though bugle was “fascinated” by the country.

I guess I’ve maxed out the wapo articles I can read for the month bc now it’s a paywall for me ugh

 

[Lilibet]

I suspect that Boyle’s concern about being arrested or held for questioning by the U.S. is based on his own internal reality, paranoia, persecution complex, or delusions rather than an external, rational reason. However, if he did something in Afghanistan or plans to do something in the future and has reason to believe someone tipped off the U.S. then he may be paranoid for a reason, even if the U.S. doesn’t know anything and doesn’t care about his past.

He almost seems determined to oppose the U.S. on some level, rather than expressing gratitude for his rescue. Does it bother him that he was rescued thanks to U.S. intelligence? Is the U.S. the enemy in his mind? Was he influenced by his captors’ beliefs?

US State Department officials were on the plane with them. Boyle gave the AP a handwritten statement expressing disagreement with US foreign policy. "God has given me and my family unparalleled resilience and determination, and to allow that to stagnate, to pursue personal pleasure or comfort while there is still deliberate and organized injustice in the world would be a betrayal of all I believe, and tantamount to sacrilege," he wrote. He nodded to one of the State Department officials and said, "Their interests are not my interests."

http://www.newser.com/story/250061/rescued-hostage-has-harsh-words-for-us-interests.html
BBM

I still haven’t figured out why their captors allowed them to stay together and start a family. That’s more mouths to feed and people to clothe. It’s certainly harder to guard a family. Neither government was caving in to whatever demands they made. What purpose was this family serving for their captors after five long years?

Yes, He is paranoid now. I don't doubt that and his recent comments have me curious of his interests
Yet I am curious as to why he feels that way now. He claims its because of his previous history BUT he married and divorced Zaynab Khadr in 2009-2010. Neither gov't had him under investigation back then, though the Canadian Gov't did have Zaynab under investigation and the Khadr family is a big story in itself in Canada.

What I am saying is that I don't understand his concern that the US will arrest him now, after spending 5 years in captivity, when they didn't arrest him when he entered the US in 2012 in order to fly to Moscow from New York.

If he wasn't under suspicion before 2012 or while he was married to Zaynab why would his captivity or his time during captivity now change that?

Here is one statement about him not being under investigation

https://globalnews.ca/news/3801502/joshua-boyle-parents-forgive-foolishness-family-readjust-canada/

in the late 2000s, Joshua Boyle had been briefly married to the sister of former Guantanamo Bay inmate Omar Khadr.

Although he has no links to the family now, Boyle refused to get on a military plane to a U.S. base in Bagram, Afghanistan on Thursday, preferring to fly directly to the Canadian High Commission in Islamabad, Pakistan. His parents say he simply wanted to get home to Canada as fast as possible.

Authorities on both sides of the Canada-U.S. border have maintained that Boyle is not under any kind of investigation.

 

[Elainera]

Yes, He is paranoid now. I don't doubt that and his recent comments have me curious of his interests
Yet I am curious as to why he feels that way now. He claims its because of his previous history BUT he married and divorced Zaynab Khadr in 2009-2010.
Neither gov't had him under investigation back then, though the Canadian Gov't did have Zaynab under investigation. The Khadr family is a big story in itself in regards to terrorism.

What I am saying is that I don't understand his concern that the US will arrest him now, after spending 5 years in captivity, when they didn't arrest him when he entered the US in 2012 in order to fly to Moscow from New York.

If he wasn't under suspicion or investigation before 2012 or while he was married to Zaynab why would his captivity or his time during captivity now change that?

Here is one statement about him not being under investigation

https://globalnews.ca/news/3801502/joshua-boyle-parents-forgive-foolishness-family-readjust-canada/

in the late 2000s, Joshua Boyle had been briefly married to the sister of former Guantanamo Bay inmate Omar Khadr.

Although he has no links to the family now, Boyle refused to get on a military plane to a U.S. base in Bagram, Afghanistan on Thursday, preferring to fly directly to the Canadian High Commission in Islamabad, Pakistan. His parents say he simply wanted to get home to Canada as fast as possible.

Authorities on both sides of the Canada-U.S. border have maintained that Boyle is not under any kind of investigation.

Maybe he thinks that the US government believes that now, after having spent so much time in close contact with members of a terrorist group, he might be "investigation-worthy", and/or possibly have some insight into the inner workings/locations/etc of this particular group? He speaks Arabic so he might have overheard things, even befriended the guards. Or he might have Stockholm syndrome and sympathize with their cause and they "turned" him. I'm sure these thoughts crossed his mind, he's not naive. And maybe he fears because of his previous connections to the Khadr family they would be less inclined to believe him and twist his words, turning the debriefing into an interrogation.

 

[Lilibet]

New BBC article. Some of it looks familiar, but there are a few (new to me) tidbits, like this...

Boyle told the BBC about the one captor he got to know, a man from the West with whom he could "ask esoteric questions on little-known points of Islamic law and history".
After the learning of the rape by some of the guards, the man defected to the so-called Islamic State "try to find a truer jihad" and promised "to try and tell ISIS of the cruelties, acts of disbelief and hypocrisy of the Haqqani Network".
"I offered him my fullest forgiveness, and Caitlan said she would forgive him all his minor sins against her, but she couldn't forgive what he'd done to the children in his blind exuberance for the group at the start," Boyle wrote.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41656159

 

[Inthedetails]

New BBC article. Some of it looks familiar, but there are a few (new to me) tidbits, like this...

Boyle told the BBC about the one captor he got to know, a man from the West with whom he could "ask esoteric questions on little-known points of Islamic law and history".
After the learning of the rape by some of the guards, the man defected to the so-called Islamic State "try to find a truer jihad" and promised "to try and tell ISIS of the cruelties, acts of disbelief and hypocrisy of the Haqqani Network".
"I offered him my fullest forgiveness, and Caitlan said she would forgive him all his minor sins against her, but she couldn't forgive what he'd done to the children in his blind exuberance for the group at the start," Boyle wrote.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41656159

He talks such gobbly-gook and leaves people more puzzled than before....which is his habit. He likes to do that, imo.

Man from the West? From where? How did he get involved with the kidnappers?

JB has discussions with him and it sounds like he enjoyed his company, though the man hurt his children and wife? Sounds like JB admires this Man from the West who leaves to find a better, truer group, but his wife is unable to forgive (which can be construed as a bit of a putdown of his wife if forgiveness is expected in whatever faith they now hold).

The way he describes this person and scenario leaves you wondering what the heck he's talking about.

If JB intends to write a book, I suggest he hone his storytelling techniques.

Jmopinion at the moment.

I

 

[LemonCloud]

He talks such gobbly-gook and leaves people more puzzled than before....which is his habit. He likes to do that, imo.

Man from the West? From where? How did he get involved with the kidnappers?

JB has discussions with him and it sounds like he enjoyed his company, though the man hurt his children and wife? Sounds like JB admires this Man from the West who leaves to find a better, truer group, but his wife is unable to forgive (which can be construed as a bit of a putdown of his wife if forgiveness is expected in whatever faith they now hold).

The way he describes this person and scenario leaves you wondering what the heck he's talking about.

If JB intends to write a book, I suggest he hone his storytelling techniques.

Jmopinion at the moment.

I

I totally agree! I'm super confused after reading that. I have so many questions....

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

New BBC article. Some of it looks familiar, but there are a few (new to me) tidbits, like this...

Boyle told the BBC about the one captor he got to know, a man from the West with whom he could "ask esoteric questions on little-known points of Islamic law and history".
After the learning of the rape by some of the guards, the man defected to the so-called Islamic State "try to find a truer jihad" and promised "to try and tell ISIS of the cruelties, acts of disbelief and hypocrisy of the Haqqani Network".
"I offered him my fullest forgiveness, and Caitlan said she would forgive him all his minor sins against her, but she couldn't forgive what he'd done to the children in his blind exuberance for the group at the start," Boyle wrote.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41656159

This shows that Joshua Boyle has a sympathetic confidante within ISIS. His ex-wife and her huge family are Al-Qaeda. Joshua has many reasons to fear being detained by the US government.