Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, Oct 2017 #1

[human]

This shows that Joshua Boyle has a sympathetic confidante within ISIS. His ex-wife and her huge family are Al-Qaeda. Joshua has many reasons to fear being detained by the US government.

Can the US detain any non citizen? Does the US need warrants for non citizens? Do non citizens have rights?

 

[Lilibet]

Can the US detain any non citizen? Does the US need warrants for non citizens? Do non citizens have rights?

Here’s what three attorneys said to CNN about the rights of citizens and noncitizens at the border last February when the travel ban was announced. I assume most of this applies, travel ban or not. If JB had anything to hide, he wouldn’t want to come across the border.

[video]http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/us/border-legal-rights-faq-trnd/index.html[/video]

And here is more regarding detention reasons, one of which would be terrorist activity.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclop...ion-customs-hold-noncitizen-without-bond.html

 

[mojook]

This shows that Joshua Boyle has a sympathetic confidante within ISIS. His ex-wife and her huge family are Al-Qaeda. Joshua has many reasons to fear being detained by the US government.

I really wouldn't be surprised if he went there to join them, and it didn't work out. Something is definitely off with this story

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

 

[otto]

New BBC article. Some of it looks familiar, but there are a few (new to me) tidbits, like this...

Boyle told the BBC about the one captor he got to know, a man from the West with whom he could "ask esoteric questions on little-known points of Islamic law and history".

After the learning of the rape by some of the guards, the man defected to the so-called Islamic State "try to find a truer jihad" and promised "to try and tell ISIS of the cruelties, acts of disbelief and hypocrisy of the Haqqani Network".

"I offered him my fullest forgiveness, and Caitlan said she would forgive him all his minor sins against her, but she couldn't forgive what he'd done to the children in his blind exuberance for the group at the start," Boyle wrote.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41656159

Boyle is delusional. He seems to have idealized Islam, and aligned with that ideology without understanding how it has been implemented by groups such as ISIS. ISIS has passed law that allows men to rape women providing the father and son do not rape the same woman. His statement that ISIS needs to know that Haqqani is raping women is ridiculous because it suggests that he believes ISIS will care, whereas they will not. ISIS murders children who do not abide by their beliefs, yet Boyle seems to think that children are protected by ISIS.

Boyles' mother's statement that her son is still just as strident in his beliefs as he was prior to trekking to join Islam extremists, and Boyle's statements that he will seek retribution using alternate methods, suggests to me that he is should be on the terrorist watch list. He seems to have some strange sense of right and wrong thinking, and seems to believe that it is his right to take such action as he deems just to force others to abide by his thinking.

 

[otto]

I really wouldn't be surprised if he went there to join them, and it didn't work out. Something is definitely off with this story

I think so too. I think he deliberately sought out this group of extremists, believing that they would welcome him with open arms and make him a leader.

 

[Lilibet]

I think so too. I think he deliberately sought out this group of extremists, believing that they would welcome him with open arms and make him a leader.

Maybe being made their leader is what he meant when he said he went there to help these poor neglected people. We’ve been wondering how he thought he could help them, with only a pregnant wife with him. Aaack, as I write this I’m having very bad thoughts about why he took CC there that I won’t put into words, except that he said their captors hoped to use CC as a bargaining tool to release imprisoned members of their group. But when that didn’t work, why on earth did this group keep them, feed them, house them, clothe them and move them around for five years?! What did they hope to gain? Were the Haqqani persuaded to believe that the children were an even better bargaining tool? If one doesn’t work, maybe three will? I hate being this suspicious of him!

Another thought...I would think the U.S. would be verrrrrry interested to know names and descriptions of their captors, especially the one from the west who joined ISIS...or whatever it’s called now. If JB doesn’t want to give that information, he wouldn’t want to come here.

Is it just my imagination or is there a news blackout in place now?

 

[LadyL]

I think they still had it in mind that more babies = more money
the government might not have been caving but the families would - just a matter of them raising a sum the kidnappers could accept
it might actually be easier to guard a family as parents might do anything to protect their children and they might also be less likely to run with little ones

I still haven’t figured out why their captors allowed them to stay together and start a family. That’s more mouths to feed and people to clothe. It’s certainly harder to guard a family. Neither government was caving in to whatever demands they made. What purpose was this family serving for their captors after five long years?

 

[momshrink]

Maybe being made their leader is what he meant when he said he went there to help these poor neglected people. We’ve been wondering how he thought he could help them, with only a pregnant wife with him. Aaack, as I write this I’m having very bad thoughts about why he took CC there that I won’t put into words, except that he said their captors hoped to use CC as a bargaining tool to release imprisoned members of their group. But when that didn’t work, why on earth did this group keep them, feed them, house them, clothe them and move them around for five years?! What did they hope to gain? Were the Haqqani persuaded to believe that the children were an even better bargaining tool? If one doesn’t work, maybe three will? I hate being this suspicious of him!

Another thought...I would think the U.S. would be verrrrrry interested to know names and descriptions of their captors, especially the one from the west who joined ISIS...or whatever it’s called now. If JB doesn’t want to give that information, he wouldn’t want to come here.

Is it just my imagination or is there a news blackout in place now?

Yes!!! I agree with all of this!!! I think he thought he would be welcomed into the Taliban especially with his past connections in his first marriage. He certainly has delusions of grandeur! I hope Canada allows interrogation by international/US terrorist specialists. Hopefully he's being watched and his virtual communication is being monitored. I'm not sure any terrorists want him on their team, but they could certainly use him for their gain.

 

[Lilibet]

I think they still had it in mind that more babies = more money
the government might not have been caving but the families would - just a matter of them raising a sum the kidnappers could accept
it might actually be easier to guard a family as parents might do anything to protect their children and they might also be less likely to run with little ones

The money angle from family is certainly possible, as is your theory that guarding a family could be easier.

Regarding money, IMO the Haqqani Network would consider anything raised by the families to be small potatoes. Although kidnapping is one of their fundraising methods, they have a large financial network abroad.

http://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Backgrounder_Haqqani-FTO.pdf

FWIW, the above reference is from a “hawkish” think tank site. Here is more info from the Wikipedia article, all of which is well worth reading.

[FONT=&amp]Some of Sirajuddin's brothers travel to the [/FONT]Persian Gulf[FONT=&amp] region to raise funds from wealthy donors.[/FONT][SUP][19][/SUP][SUP][39][/SUP][FONT=&amp]The New York Times[/FONT][FONT=&amp] reported in September 2011 that the Haqqanis have set up a "ministate" in Miranshah with courts, tax offices and madrassas, and that the network runs a series of front companies selling automobiles and real estate. They also receive funds from extortion, [/FONT]kidnappings[FONT=&amp] and smuggling operations throughout eastern [/FONT]Afghanistan[FONT=&amp].[/FONT][SUP][19][/SUP][FONT=&amp] In an interview a former Haqqani commander called the extortion "the most important source of funding for the Haqqanis."[/FONT][SUP][63][/SUP][FONT=&amp] According to a tribal elder in [/FONT]Paktia[FONT=&amp], "Haqqani's people ask for [/FONT]money[FONT=&amp] from contractors working on road construction. They are asking [/FONT]money[FONT=&amp] or goods from shopkeepers… District elders and contractors are paying [/FONT]money[FONT=&amp] to Afghan workers, but sometimes half of the [/FONT]money[FONT=&amp] will go to Haqqani's people."[/FONT][SUP][64]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haqqani_network
[/SUP]
If they hoped to gain anything by holding the Boyle family, I still think it would be the release of prisoners, as JB mentioned. In that case, more babies=more leverage. So it might be worth holding the family captive for five years, but it seems awfully labor intensive and risky to me. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Reading more about the Haqqani Network is enlightening. Notice their close relationship with Al Qaeda, including bin Laden.

[FONT=&amp]Jalaluddin Haqqani commanded the Mujahideen Army from 1980-1992, he is credited with recruiting foreign fighters. Two notable jihadist are two well known Arabs, Abdullah Azzam and Osama bin Laden, both began their careers as volunteers for the Haqqani’s and trained to fight the Soviets. "Al-Qa’ida and the Haqqani network, in other words, evolved together, and they have remained intertwined throughout their history. They remain so to this day.[/FONT][SUP][25][/SUP][FONT=&amp] The Haqqani network's relationship with [/FONT]Al-Qaeda[FONT=&amp] dates back to the founding of AQ. The significant difference between the two organizations is that Al-Qaeda's goals are global and use global means; whereas Haqqani is solely interested in Afghanistan and the Pashtun Tribal regions. To Jalaluddin Haqqani he is more interested in the influence of Islamic Law over Afghanistan than the global Jihad. Nonetheless the Haqqani network has always been fully aware of Al-Qaeda's intentions and goals.
BBM[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][SUP]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haqqani_network

[/SUP]

 

[Intermezzo]

I suspect that Boyle’s concern about being arrested or held for questioning by the U.S. is based on his own internal reality, paranoia, persecution complex, or delusions rather than an external, rational reason. However, if he did something in Afghanistan or plans to do something in the future and has reason to believe someone tipped off the U.S. then he may be paranoid for a reason, even if the U.S. doesn’t know anything and doesn’t care about his past.

He almost seems determined to oppose the U.S. on some level, rather than expressing gratitude for his rescue. Does it bother him that he was rescued thanks to U.S. intelligence? Is the U.S. the enemy in his mind? Was he influenced by his captors’ beliefs?

US State Department officials were on the plane with them. Boyle gave the AP a handwritten statement expressing disagreement with US foreign policy. "God has given me and my family unparalleled resilience and determination, and to allow that to stagnate, to pursue personal pleasure or comfort while there is still deliberate and organized injustice in the world would be a betrayal of all I believe, and tantamount to sacrilege," he wrote. He nodded to one of the State Department officials and said, "Their interests are not my interests."

http://www.newser.com/story/250061/rescued-hostage-has-harsh-words-for-us-interests.html
BBM

I still haven’t figured out why their captors allowed them to stay together and start a family. That’s more mouths to feed and people to clothe. It’s certainly harder to guard a family. Neither government was caving in to whatever demands they made. What purpose was this family serving for their captors after five long years?

Thank You. You expressed it better than I.

He would have raised some interested by the Cdn gov't when he married into the al Qaeda linked Khadr family back in 2009 (whose family members have been on the US's terror list because of their involvement in the 9/11 bombings, or detained in Guantanamo or resisting extradition to the US)
IF the Cdn gov't looked him during the time of his marriage to Zaynab they found no suspicious activity. She on the other hand was under investigation by the RCMP for terror-related offenses but never charged before she moved to Turkey in 2012

.https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/01/31/omar-khadrs-sister-zaynab-detained-in-turkey.html

 

[Lilibet]

I’m wondering if this is JB’s Wikipedia profile.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sherurcij

This sort of sounds like him!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Sherurcij

 

[otto]

Yes!!! I agree with all of this!!! I think he thought he would be welcomed into the Taliban especially with his past connections in his first marriage. He certainly has delusions of grandeur! I hope Canada allows interrogation by international/US terrorist specialists. Hopefully he's being watched and his virtual communication is being monitored. I'm not sure any terrorists want him on their team, but they could certainly use him for their gain.

I don't think Canada needs "international/US terrorist specialists" to deal with terrorists in Canada. There are probably a couple smart Canadians who specialize in national and international terrorist activities.

 

[momshrink]

I don't think Canada needs "international/US terrorist specialists" to deal with terrorists in Canada. There are probably a couple smart Canadians who specialize in national and international terrorist activities.

You are right. I really hope information is being shared between intelligence communities. I have been sleep deprived this past week and wasn't clear. I agree that Wikipedia entry could have been written by JB.
I think he intended to settle in Afghanistan and that's the reason they began their family. I think they may have had limited freedom or at least JB did. I do think CC and the children were mistreated. Too much doesn't make sense. There are too many missing pieces and JB is not a reliable reporter. I just keep feeling he wanted to live among the Taliban and become one of them. I MO.

 

[otto]

You are right. I really hope information is being shared between intelligence communities. I have been sleep deprived this past week and wasn't clear. I agree that Wikipedia entry could have been written by JB.
I think he intended to settle in Afghanistan and that's the reason they began their family. I think they may have had limited freedom or at least JB did. I do think CC and the children were mistreated. Too much doesn't make sense. There are too many missing pieces and JB is not a reliable reporter. I just keep feeling he wanted to live among the Taliban and become one of them. I MO.

Although Canadians, including the RCMP, are portrayed as buffoons in Canadian comedy,that is comedy, not reality. Canada has a sophisticated terrorist oversight system similar to any other first world country, such as Britain, with the significant different being that Canada has a small population for it's land size - making it easier to hide.

Boyle must have sympathized with Islam extremists to marry Omar Khadr's sister. Omar recently made a request that he be allowed to meet with his sister without supervision. I'd have to double check to be sure, but I believe that request was denied because she has extremist views. I suspect that Boyle was attracted to her because of her extremist views, and that he still holds those beliefs.

I strongly suspect that he believed he could join extremists and be the big shot, the leader, the man with authority, on what it is to be Islam. We don't know anything about how he and his wife lived during the last five years. What we know is that he complained that the religious variant of Islam of the first group he encountered [kidnappers] was not in agreement with Boyle's beliefs. We've heard that in two ways. First, he claims there was a Westerner who joined them - not a kidnap victim - who then went on to tell ISIS that rape and murder were practiced by Islam extremists ... apparently Boyle didn't know this. Second, one of his first media rantings was about the group's practices versus Islam, that they claimed to be Muslim, but their behaviors were out of step with his truer [because of his relationship to Khadr's sister?] Muslim beliefs.

Did his relationship with his first wife keep him alive all these years? Was there some extremist view that Omar Khadr is a man to be respected, and a man married to his sister should also be respected?

Did his kidnappers ply him by hurting his children? There's something there too, as he has reference that one of the children is very traumatized. What happened?

Was Boyle speaking to the media because he is too paranoid to speak to health care workers, yet at the same time he needs to talk about his experience in order to function?

 

[FightTheOstrich]

http://www.ydr.com/story/news/2017/...-home-frustrations-media-attention/787252001/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ple-freed-Pakistan-pictured-playing-home.html

C issued a statement.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I think there is a reason from 5+ years ago why he didn't want to come to the US. He went over there for a reason and it wasn't hiking and it wasn't so he and his 5 month pregnant wife could save people with hiking supplies.

 

[otto]

http://www.ydr.com/story/news/2017/...-home-frustrations-media-attention/787252001/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ple-freed-Pakistan-pictured-playing-home.html

C issued a statement.

From the first article:

"The correspondence documented her fond childhood memories and challenges adapting to her new life.
...

The email was attributed to the "Boyle Family," and followed an email exchange initiated by Joshua Boyle, Caitlan's Canadian husband
...

"Everybody says 'No, you have to come out and talk about it', but no, no I don't and everybody nice has said it's my choice and I can talk when I want, and to whom I want," Coleman wrote."​

[My Take on THIS STATEMENT: is incorrect. Her husband has exploited her in the media with a hospital bed photo and the public is shocked. No one is expecting a media statement from her or her husband]

"Right now it's too soon to know what long-term plans will be," Caitlan Coleman wrote in an email. "But if we do find ourselves in York, I can't wait to share with my children some of the beautiful experiences I had there."​

http://www.ydr.com/story/news/2017/...-home-frustrations-media-attention/787252001/

My take on the last statement is that she wants very much to be transferred to a US hospital even though she makes a point of saying that the Canadian hospital system is looking after her, and for her children to join her at the moment that she leaves Canada. I hope that she is willing to go ahead with her family, and to give her husband as much time as he needs to find work in York.

 

[otto]

"The three children are named Najaeshi Jonah, Dhakwoen Noah and Ma'idah Grace.
...

The Haqqani group is an Afghan fundamentalist guerrilla organization that is considered a terrorist organization by the US State Department.
It is believed to be active in the largely lawless tribal regions that straddle the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
The head of the CIA, Mike Pompeo, expressed the belief among government officials in both the US and Canada that the family was not freed in a daring raid in Afghanistan, but that the release was coordinated and staged in Pakistan.
Pompeo said Thursday that American officials believe the family was held for five years inside Pakistan before their release last week.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stan-pictured-playing-home.html#ixzz4wC8PYjX6

 

[otto]

If it was a coordinated transfer [release was coordinated in Pakistan] of Boyle and his family from Afghanistan/Pakistan border, were they expelled, or released?