AuburnTxTiger
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Thanks for researching this.
CAR SEAT discussion
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Thanks for researching this.
Hippiemomof5
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There are times it's safer to have a child forward facing; they unbuckle and you can't see them, they vomit from carsickness, they throw fits from being backwards which distract the drier. These are valid reasons to turn a child around in my opinion. Now it is advised to turn at two, not one, but I don't believe it's a law in any state yet. I'm all for safety too and that's why we've chosen rear facing until our children outgrow the seats' restrictions, and actually, our younger son turned at 21 months because he outgrew his seat so much earlier than our other children. Anyway, I have several friends that have turned their kids so they could see the DVD player in the car and call me old fashioned or whatnot, but I'd remove the DVD player before I'd compromise my child's safety for the sake of a tv. But, to each their own.
EvilSoup
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No kidding about the DVD players. No wonder kids cannot entertain themselves anymore. Even a trip to the store is too boring without a dvd to watch.
And I would have heeded the safety recommendations regardless. I am just grateful it wasn't something I had to consider back then! Shew!
Makes you wonder how my generation survived childhood with concrete playgrounds, hot metal slides, lapbelts and no bike helmets! Not saying I had bad parents, we just didn't know better then!
A big THANK YOU to posters on this thread.
I know nothing about baby/infant/child car seats.
If I had bn a witness( or even LE) at the scene, I prob'ly w/not hv/noticed anything about the car seat.
If I had not read all the posts, first in gen disc., then the car seat thread,
it never would occurred to me that the seat size or rear v. forward facing angles meant anything.
From pix, if I had bn on the jury, I w/not have thought about it, at least until other jurors raised the issue.
The car seat certainly could be crucial in highlighting Ross' thinking & state of mind -
-- 'I don't want to waste $ on a second approp, correct-size car seat for him'
-- 'no need to move new approp. size seat for each errand or trip.'
-- the way Ross actually strapped Cooper in that morning, esp after Chic-Fil-A.
Many folks here provided input about car seat best practices, and manu. rec's, and the actual regulations,
and about their personal experiences.
I'm glad they shared and enlightened me.
I know nothing about baby/infant/child car seats.
If I had bn a witness( or even LE) at the scene, I prob'ly w/not hv/noticed anything about the car seat.
If I had not read all the posts, first in gen disc., then the car seat thread,
it never would occurred to me that the seat size or rear v. forward facing angles meant anything.
From pix, if I had bn on the jury, I w/not have thought about it, at least until other jurors raised the issue.
The car seat certainly could be crucial in highlighting Ross' thinking & state of mind -
-- 'I don't want to waste $ on a second approp, correct-size car seat for him'
-- 'no need to move new approp. size seat for each errand or trip.'
-- the way Ross actually strapped Cooper in that morning, esp after Chic-Fil-A.
Many folks here provided input about car seat best practices, and manu. rec's, and the actual regulations,
and about their personal experiences.
I'm glad they shared and enlightened me.
Enlightened me, too ALP! I never had kids, but if I had, their security and comfort in a car would have been a major issue with me. They are precious cargo, because when you bring them into this world, it is your absolute duty to protect them from all the danger that is inherent in their vulnerability as BABIES. That is primal. JMO
CHERIE.T
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lololol Evil, when I was a child, we didn't have bike helmets, knee pads, elbow pads, car seats or seat belts.
Also we went to the playground and had wooden swings w/uncovered chains and yep, metal slides.
We survived...
Hippiemomof5
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lololol Evil, when I was a child, we didn't have bike helmets, knee pads, elbow pads, car seats or seat belts.
Also we went to the playground and had wooden swings w/uncovered chains and yep, metal slides.
We survived...
There's a playground where my son plays little league that still has one of those metal merry go rounds that have been deemed unsafe for this generation. :insert my eye roll here: My children LOVE this playground toy, they play on it for hours, they spin too fast, they hang upside down on the bars, and sometimes they even fall off, but they're having fun!!
lololol Evil, when I was a child, we didn't have bike helmets, knee pads, elbow pads, car seats or seat belts.
Also we went to the playground and had wooden swings w/uncovered chains and yep, metal slides.
We survived...
YUP we did. But we weren't trapped in car seats and back then, we were not permanently locked in. (an infant may have been)...but a 2 year old could have raised hell and someone would have rescued us by breaking in. I just looked for hyperthermia statistics for the 50'sand 60's and did not find stats, because, I suspect that just a bit like now,it was considered an accident. NOW is so very different from then. Chances are that whan we were left in the car, it wasn't locked. Parents HAVE to lock now or risk child abducting maniacs. ewww. I'm getting depressed. Ya kwim? JMO
Hippiemomof5
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I don't think kids were forgotten because they weren't in car seats and even if they were, they were up front, or facing forward.
I don't think doors being left unlocked would have effected anything because older kids die in cars these days, when they should be capable of getting out, the heat gets to them before they realize they *should get out.
Moo
CHERIE.T
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It is depressing. This whole babies dying in carseats is horrible.
EvilSoup
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Plus today's moms LIVE in their vehicles. It seems kids have such a heavy activity schedule that mom (and sometimes dad) is a glorified chauffeur, lol. It seems like families used to spend less time driving about town, but that just be my perspective.
My mom bought groceries once a week, on Saturdays after getting her hair done. We kids stayed home with dad and watched cartoons. We had some activities, but not even every day. I do remember always wanting to ride along for trips to the bank. The suckers, you know.
ITA. To me the rear facing car seat is significant in this case because it points toward premeditation. And that's because if it was facing rear--and the straps were on the tightest setting--it would have been very difficult to place Cooper into it and buckle the straps. His legs would have had to be bent considerably because they were up against the seat. No way would he be comfortable like that. If a passer-by had spotted an alive Cooper in the parking lot vocalizing his discomfort, by using a rear-facing seat, RH could use the excuse, "I forgot."
JMO
Yes, those of us around to post on these message boards survived. But some kids didn't. These safety devices do have a purpose.lololol Evil, when I was a child, we didn't have bike helmets, knee pads, elbow pads, car seats or seat belts.
Also we went to the playground and had wooden swings w/uncovered chains and yep, metal slides.
We survived...
Tink
MzOpinion8d
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I think he was probably over the weight limit for the seat also. (22 pounds) My daughter was on the small side but was 19 pounds at 1 year (crazy since she weighed 9 lbs 10oz at birth!) so I'm sure she was more than 22 lbs at 22 months. Cooper looks like a pretty average size kiddo. The weight is very important because the restraints are designed to work to restrain a certain amount of force and if the child's weight is too high for the restraint it could fail to hold the child securely.
lndigo
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ilovepierre
One day, the lost will be found
IMO, it baffles my mind for a child to still be RF at 2 years old. It also baffles my mind that they should be that way until up to 4 years old. I was in a booster seat at that age!
I have an almost 2 1/2 year old brother, and he's been FF since 9-10 months old.
Once my mom bought him a convertible seat, she had him FF.
His seat can still be used for RF (according to the weight and height listed on the side), and he should apparently be RF still. But at the same time, he can also be FF. The height and weights for both positions overlap. So while his height and weight fall into the RF category, he also falls into the FF category. So I guess it falls to the discretion of the parent on which position they put the car seat.
Regardless of that though, I don't think Cooper should have been in a RF only infant seat. It was clear that he was too big for that style of seat by a few inches. If JRH or LH wanted him to be RF still (which doesn't seem likely, since he WAS FF 6 weeks prior to the incident), they should have had him in a convertible seat.
I dunno. Maybe car seat laws/regulations are different in Canada than in the States. I don't know anyone who has their 2 year old+ child RF still. All the kids I have seen in car seats at the age are in a convertible 5 point harness seat and it can be used up to 100 pounds or 8 years old. And they are all FF.
I have an almost 2 1/2 year old brother, and he's been FF since 9-10 months old.
Once my mom bought him a convertible seat, she had him FF.
His seat can still be used for RF (according to the weight and height listed on the side), and he should apparently be RF still. But at the same time, he can also be FF. The height and weights for both positions overlap. So while his height and weight fall into the RF category, he also falls into the FF category. So I guess it falls to the discretion of the parent on which position they put the car seat.
Regardless of that though, I don't think Cooper should have been in a RF only infant seat. It was clear that he was too big for that style of seat by a few inches. If JRH or LH wanted him to be RF still (which doesn't seem likely, since he WAS FF 6 weeks prior to the incident), they should have had him in a convertible seat.
I dunno. Maybe car seat laws/regulations are different in Canada than in the States. I don't know anyone who has their 2 year old+ child RF still. All the kids I have seen in car seats at the age are in a convertible 5 point harness seat and it can be used up to 100 pounds or 8 years old. And they are all FF.
thekirbyfamily
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This is only my personal opinion, although I have 4 young children...Cooper should never have been in that rear-facing car seat period. If I remember correctly, all of my children were out of these types of seats at/or very shortly after their 1st birthdays. Taking this further, under no circumstances should Cooper have been in that seat with the belts set on the tightest setting. This and this alone (although there has been a multitude of other illogical and unconscionable things that have happened) convinced me of his guilt. Having that seat set on the setting at which you do when you bring a brand new baby home from the hospital can have no other explanation than that you wanted to make sure it was as tight as possible so he couldn't free himself. Even Cooper being of a smaller size (which has been debunked in court and he doesn't appear THAT small in pictures) wouldn't have required this. And then when you add the fact that there was another car seat that had been in this car, that it had been removed (with the excuse being a trip home in mom's car), and this rear facing one had been re-installed in it's place only go to make this look as bad as possible. There are simply way too many incidences and occurances with these two to logically be acceptable. One thing, two things, three things...maybe even four things (although that is where I really start saying hmmm) could/might be believable and chaulked up to coincidence but when you have a plethora of incidences and occurances around two individuals (with him bearing the brunt of it) it just isn't logical no matter how many explanations you come up with.
Laughing
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https://www.safekids.org/car-seat
Yes, rear facing is safest, center of the vehicle's middle seat is safest, correctly adjusted straps are safest.
The car seat was not the problem.
Yes, rear facing is safest, center of the vehicle's middle seat is safest, correctly adjusted straps are safest.
The car seat was not the problem.
MzOpinion8d
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Cooper was too big for the seat is the problem.
And JRH had the straps set at the lowest (newborn) setting.
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