Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

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Jonathan Kellerman, a clinical psychologist turned mystery writer wrote the following about BPD. It is a well written piece about the disorder I wanted to share. Many of you that now Borderline's will relate:

The borderline patient is a therapist's nightmare...because borderlines never really get better. The best you can do is help them coast, whithout getting sucked into their pathology...They're the chronically depressed, the determinedly addictive, the compulsively divorced, living from one emotional disaster to the next. Bed hoppers, stomach pumpers, freeway jumpers, and sad-eyed bench-sitters with arms stitched up like footballs and psychic wounds that can never be sutured. Their egos are as fragile as spun sugar, their psyches irretrievably fragmented, like a jigsaw puzzle with crucial pieces missing. They play roles with alacrity, excel at being anyone but themselves, crave initmacy but repel it when they find it. Some of them gravitate toward stage or screen; others do their acting in more subtle ways.

Borderlines go from therapist to therapist, hoping to find a magic bullet for the crushing feelings of emptiness. They turn to chemical bullets, gobble tranquilizers and antidepressants, alcohol and cocaine. Embrace gurus and heaven-hucksters, any charismatic creep promising a quick fix of the pain. And they end up taking temporary vacations in psychiatric wards and prison cells, emerge looking good, raising everyone's hopes. Until the next letdown, real or imagined, the next excursion into self damage.

What they don't do is change.
 
Padua said:
Jonathan Kellerman, a clinical psychologist turned mystery writer wrote the following about BPD. It is a well written piece about the disorder I wanted to share. Many of you that now Borderline's will relate:

The borderline patient is a therapist's nightmare...because borderlines never really get better. The best you can do is help them coast, whithout getting sucked into their pathology...They're the chronically depressed, the determinedly addictive, the compulsively divorced, living from one emotional disaster to the next. Bed hoppers, stomach pumpers, freeway jumpers, and sad-eyed bench-sitters with arms stitched up like footballs and psychic wounds that can never be sutured. Their egos are as fragile as spun sugar, their psyches irretrievably fragmented, like a jigsaw puzzle with crucial pieces missing. They play roles with alacrity, excel at being anyone but themselves, crave initmacy but repel it when they find it. Some of them gravitate toward stage or screen; others do their acting in more subtle ways.

Borderlines go from therapist to therapist, hoping to find a magic bullet for the crushing feelings of emptiness. They turn to chemical bullets, gobble tranquilizers and antidepressants, alcohol and cocaine. Embrace gurus and heaven-hucksters, any charismatic creep promising a quick fix of the pain. And they end up taking temporary vacations in psychiatric wards and prison cells, emerge looking good, raising everyone's hopes. Until the next letdown, real or imagined, the next excursion into self damage.

What they don't do is change.
Click to expand...
I don't think I would want this guy as my psychologist...
 
otto said:
I had a moment of sympathy for Casey today after hearing the interview with the man that evaluated her mental health. On the upside, she does not suffer from mental illness. On the down side, I think she might actually be delusional about how she will be received after release. He said that although she has been somewhat prepared and told about the public reaction to the verdict, she doesn't fully appreciate the situation. I'm half wondering if she isn't expecting to emerge from the jail as a celebrity. Although we're hearing that she's rejecting her family, they are her only true friends at this time. Everyone else she interacts with will be looking to cash in, and I suspect others will be like the "new friends" Joran van der Sloot made after Natalee's disappearance: intent on betrayal. I think part of the reason that defense wants to whisk her away is to protect her long enough for her to grasp the public reaction to the verdict, in a way ... to protect her from having a public meltdown when she learns that she is a pariah. I thought she showed quite a temper towards her lawyers at times in court and we've all seen her temper towards her family, but none of them want her showing that ill temper to the public.
Click to expand...

With Casey's disturbed psyche the way it is, her pure subjectivity (self centeredness), her inability to empathize or relate to other human beings as equals (more like prey), I don't think she is capable of really "getting" her pariah status.

I think the information bounces off her skull because she has no inner context with which to understand it, the way you and I would understand being hated.

I remember a time when everyone in the fifth grade decided I had head lice. My mother suggested a home perm that, erm, turned out poorly :D . Thus, the condition of my fried hair was head lice. I was the fifth grade pariah for about two or three months (or so it felt). I still remember with anguish and pain how that felt!!!

In Casey's sociopathic world, NO ONE else has real feelings but HER.

Casey's mentality is about predation, exploitation. Her looks and hot body are a tool to exploit men, a means to an end. I seriously doubt Casey wrings her hands about stretch marks and "what other people think".

I also predict that Casey is utterly incapable of living independently. I think she is very low functioning. As long as she has someone she can exploit, she gives the appearance of functionality. Now that her parents are out of the picture, who will take care of Casey?

I fear there may be a queue forming already :banghead: of people who THINK they can handle her, work her like she works them. We'll see.

I use the word "parasite" in it's strictest scientific sense when I apply it to Casey, not as a personal insult.
 
So... who is really going to take care of Casey now..clean up her messes. Is she capable of living independently. She has always lived with her parents and Cindy always took care of her and covered for her.

I know the defense team are going to help her.. but really? Are they going to personally babysit her everyday? Its one thing for Baez to be her buddy when she is safely in a jail cell and doesn't have a lot of choices.. but now the world of opportunity is open to her...

Casey has only really been on her own those 31 days after Caylee was murdered.. and well.. we know how that turned out...
 
Padua said:
Jonathan Kellerman, a clinical psychologist turned mystery writer wrote the following about BPD. It is a well written piece about the disorder I wanted to share. Many of you that now Borderline's will relate:

The borderline patient is a therapist's nightmare...because borderlines never really get better. The best you can do is help them coast, whithout getting sucked into their pathology...They're the chronically depressed, the determinedly addictive, the compulsively divorced, living from one emotional disaster to the next. Bed hoppers, stomach pumpers, freeway jumpers, and sad-eyed bench-sitters with arms stitched up like footballs and psychic wounds that can never be sutured. Their egos are as fragile as spun sugar, their psyches irretrievably fragmented, like a jigsaw puzzle with crucial pieces missing. They play roles with alacrity, excel at being anyone but themselves, crave initmacy but repel it when they find it. Some of them gravitate toward stage or screen; others do their acting in more subtle ways.

Borderlines go from therapist to therapist, hoping to find a magic bullet for the crushing feelings of emptiness. They turn to chemical bullets, gobble tranquilizers and antidepressants, alcohol and cocaine. Embrace gurus and heaven-hucksters, any charismatic creep promising a quick fix of the pain. And they end up taking temporary vacations in psychiatric wards and prison cells, emerge looking good, raising everyone's hopes. Until the next letdown, real or imagined, the next excursion into self damage.

What they don't do is change.
Click to expand...

Did he work with BPD utilizing DBT or was he one of those 'insight oriented' client-centered types? I don't think it serves any purpose to have such a negative view on treatability. Back in the day other types of patients were considered 'untreatable' and they were left to suffer and bring suffering to others. Are patients with BPD difficult to treat? Yes. Is it an impossibility and a waste of time? NO.

One of the things I've found with BPD and even APD is that aging helps. As Borderlines get older, female borderlines get 'better' in that they are not as emotional, impulsive, prone to addiction, etc. Men with APD also chill out too. You'll see the more violent type of APD in younger aged criminals. After 50 or so you see less violence.

Personality disorders require long term treatment. Utilizing old school psychodynamic approaches or humanistic approaches do not work. DBT, medication, social skills training, etc can lead to some improvement.

I never went into the field of clinical psychology thinking that there were groups of people who were 'wastes of time' or who we shouldn't bother trying to help. Everyone deserves an opportunity. The important piece is that the patient must want to get some help, have some motivation for treatment. That's the most difficult piece but it isn't impossible with all or most personality disordered individuals.
 
Being a counselor I can tell you that from my experience the person impossible to help is the anti-social personality who simply does not answer questions truthfully and is not there to get well.
 
Another thing I have been thinking about is what this family was like before Caylee came along...Lee A. was still living at home into his twenties and from his testimony about being so hurt for being "left out" of Casey's pregnancy, comes off as sounding very childlike to me; Casey clearly has some behaviors of a spoiled child, IMO. Were these two ever going to grow up and move out and start their own lives, if not for the change in the household? I just have a feeling that both of them were treated and raised in a way to stay "little children" by Cindy, dependent upon her for everything, no matter how resentful they might become, etc...

Just thinking aloud that this was always a very weird household and that Casey getting pregnant forced changes that some of them were not prepared to deal with. I don't think Casey ever thought of Caylee as her responsibility in any real way, rather like a diversion, something to play with and then leave to her mother when it wasn't "fun" anymore. And I don't think she ever forgave Cindy for holding Caylee first, not because she was desperate to bond but because she was reacting like a spoiled child.

Okay, I am babbling...just can't get the idea out of my mind that this family was totally weird, creepy strange, etc...and that the "flowers in the attic" is not that far off as descriptions go, except I am not sure if the weirdness comes from sexual abuse issues or just some sort of parenting syndrome, i.e. keeping your children as babyish as possible in order to feel they need you.
 
kaki said:
So... who is really going to take care of Casey now..clean up her messes. Is she capable of living independently. She has always lived with her parents and Cindy always took care of her and covered for her.

I know the defense team are going to help her.. but really? Are they going to personally babysit her everyday? Its one thing for Baez to be her buddy when she is safely in a jail cell and doesn't have a lot of choices.. but now the world of opportunity is open to her...

Casey has only really been on her own those 31 days after Caylee was murdered.. and well.. we know how that turned out...
Click to expand...

I sort of lean towards the opinion that she will head to Puerto Rico (Jose Baez is from there) and end up on an island in his home for a while or at least until she reacclimates to the public.
 
I've read that borderlines get better as they age and narcissists only get worse. Casey must not be a borderline or it would have been noticed someone who evaluted her since it's something that would really stand out.
 
I noticed in the interview with Weitz, he said "What is known is she suffered many losses, significant losses, and so, obviously, the issue of trauma and reactions to trauma could be explored as a reasonable psychological consideration."

Does anybody know what he is talking about concerning many losses, significant loses?

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28537940/detail.html
 
PeteyGirl said:
With Casey's disturbed psyche the way it is, her pure subjectivity (self centeredness), her inability to empathize or relate to other human beings as equals (more like prey), I don't think she is capable of really "getting" her pariah status.

I think the information bounces off her skull because she has no inner context with which to understand it, the way you and I would understand being hated.

I remember a time when everyone in the fifth grade decided I had head lice. My mother suggested a home perm that, erm, turned out poorly :D . Thus, the condition of my fried hair was head lice. I was the fifth grade pariah for about two or three months (or so it felt). I still remember with anguish and pain how that felt!!!

In Casey's sociopathic world, NO ONE else has real feelings but HER.

Casey's mentality is about predation, exploitation. Her looks and hot body are a tool to exploit men, a means to an end. I seriously doubt Casey wrings her hands about stretch marks and "what other people think".

I also predict that Casey is utterly incapable of living independently. I think she is very low functioning. As long as she has someone she can exploit, she gives the appearance of functionality. Now that her parents are out of the picture, who will take care of Casey?

I fear there may be a queue forming already :banghead: of people who THINK they can handle her, work her like she works them. We'll see.

I use the word "parasite" in it's strictest scientific sense when I apply it to Casey, not as a personal insult.
Click to expand...

I see Casey differently. She was taught nobody mattered but her and that that was OK.. that life just works that way.. Casey is what matters. She stole from and she lied to her parents time and again yet still got everything she wanted. She was supposed to buy Lee's car, paid ONE payment only yet she still got the car. She lied about graduating yet she still got a party. She hacked into her mothers bank account to pay her cell phone bill.. when her moms account alerted that is was overdrawn her mom simply transferred the funds from another account to cover the bill. She was taught that her needs and her needs alone were what mattered.. that it was ok to take advantage of others.. that everyone would just look the other way. The world revolved around Casey for her entire life-time. Casey's "entitlement" behaviors don't necessarily mean she is a psychopath/sociopath.. they could also be the lingering effects of being raised by enabling/co-dependent parents and they can with hard work, be unlearned. IMO unless and until she is diagnosed as ASPD/Psychopath/Sociopath by a professional who has met with her and assessed her properly I believe she can unlearn what her parents taught her.
 
txsvicki said:
I've read that borderlines get better as they age and narcissists only get worse. Casey must not be a borderline or it would have been noticed someone who evaluted her since it's something that would really stand out.
Click to expand...

She fits a couple of the criteria for the various Cluster B PD but until she's fully evaluated and that information is released to the public, no one will know if she is diagnosed with a PD. ICA might dissociate, have hypomanic episodes, or utilize denial, avoidance and fantasy as defense mechanisms for a weak ego and all those would fit different diagnosis.
 
HatesSociopaths said:
Being a counselor I can tell you that from my experience the person impossible to help is the anti-social personality who simply does not answer questions truthfully and is not there to get well.
Click to expand...

Have you been verified yet?
 
zeeks said:
She fits a couple of the criteria for the various Cluster B PD but until she's fully evaluated and that information is released to the public, no one will know if she is diagnosed with a PD. ICA might dissociate, have hypomanic episodes, or utilize denial, avoidance and fantasy as defense mechanisms for a weak ego and all those would fit different diagnosis.
Click to expand...

ita..
 
kaki said:
So... who is really going to take care of Casey now..clean up her messes. Is she capable of living independently. She has always lived with her parents and Cindy always took care of her and covered for her.

I know the defense team are going to help her.. but really? Are they going to personally babysit her everyday? Its one thing for Baez to be her buddy when she is safely in a jail cell and doesn't have a lot of choices.. but now the world of opportunity is open to her...

Casey has only really been on her own those 31 days after Caylee was murdered.. and well.. we know how that turned out...
Click to expand...

Maybe taking care of herself is just what she needs to finally grow up
 
Etilema said:
In the system used by psychologists, she must meet certain specific criteria listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual in order to make the diagnosis. There is not currently a personality disorder diagnosis known as "sociopath". At this point, that niche has been filled with "antisocial personality disorder". The DSM criteria for the disorder can be found on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder#DSM). Although Casey does display many of the behaviors listed, one obvious deficit is that, as far as we know, there is no evidence she had Conduct Disorder before the age of 15.

Also on Wikipedia (right below the criteria), there is an overview of arguments about whether it is accurate to replace sociopathy/psychopathy with antisocial personality disorder.

Diagnosis is an ever-evolving science, and the situation is that right now her particular set of issues is not properly covered by any one of the currently agreed-upon diagnostic categories.JMO
Click to expand...

BBM
Sooooooo... she's just a bad person? Works for me.
:rocker:
 
Yellow Rose said:
I sort of lean towards the opinion that she will head to Puerto Rico (Jose Baez is from there) and end up on an island in his home for a while or at least until she reacclimates to the public.
Click to expand...

She called Jose her new father in her jail letters, so I think this is right also.

She sucked him right in. Reading those letters, I am certain she exploited his personal vulnerabilities and soothed his insecurities. He loves her like a daughter now.

It's only a matter of time before she pulls the rug out from under him, too. There will come a day when he sits back and says "What kind of person's life did I save here?"

You were the sucker, Jose.
 
Just to clarify my above post. I am not saying KC has BPD. It seemed BPD is brought up a lot by people interested in the subject and I recently read that passage and thought I'd share for those interested.

I do not know, because I never performed a psych eval on her, whether she has a mood disorder or PD. She does have a lot of traits that fit one or more PD's, but so do a lot of people.

I would never send away a client because of a diagnosis. But, I reserve the right to discontinue services if I put more time and effort into therapy than they do. I say to myself, "Who is working harder, them or me." And if I feel I am, I explore that with them and give them options to other psychologists or therapists in my area.

Just because I put "they are not good candidates for therapy" doesn't mean they shouldn't be in therapy, I implying the success rate is low.
 
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