Casey and TonE Chat Logs

[seagull65]

Of course KC didn't know there were nicer guys than this. She makes them look like angels. Remember, she was the one that was NOT nice. The way I see it, TL has done nothing wrong. The problem here is KC!

I also haven't seen any evidence of TL doing any wrong (besides breaking into GA's shed.) I have no reason to accuse him so I never have (I've never made any accusation yet in this case). (At the same time I don't understand some of the media and public's desire to whitewash TL and other witnesses and portray them as saints.) But, there hasn't been a trial yet, it's not actually known yet who murdered Caylee. In talking about KC, you could be talking about an innocent person. All that's known is that either Caylee's body OR items that were in contact with her (deceased) body were probably placed in KC's car trunk or back yard at some point. It's not known who placed them there. KC is not the only person who had access to Caylee, the Pontiac trunk, or the A house and back yard.
The motive for KC to kill Caylee is quite weak (though I can't rule her out of course). But she had no history of mistreatment of Caylee, and she had always maintained her social lifestyle throughout Caylee's life. All of her friends who were interviewed, including the new crowd of TL and friends, said they couldn't imagine Casey harming Caylee. If KC wanted to be rid of the role of mother, she could easily let her parents take Caylee, they had made this clear. The whole theory of "killing Caylee out of spite toward Cindy" is total speculation by tabloids such as the NG show, there is no evidence that this is what happened.
Though I can't rule KC out, I think the person who murdered Caylee could be someone who had a much stronger motive than KC did. For example, a person who molested the child, or who had assaulted her and didn't want her to be able to tell. (Whether this was someone who knew Caylee or a stranger who managed to get access.) Again, I can't rule KC out, and her failure to report the disappearance is very strange obviously, (there could be various explanations for that that we don't know yet), but I'm waiting for the trial to see if we get a clearer picture of what happened and who could have been involved. We've only seen prosecution leaks and tabloid media spin so far, so only one side of the story, for 8 months or more. I just hope the investigation was broad enough to find all the facts, and didn't suffer from tunnel vision on KC and her family.

 

[seagull65]

kc had a nice guy in Jesse and got bored of him. Nice Guys aren't "cool". They aren't exciting. They aren't organizing parties. Do we really have to get into the whole nice guy jerk debate here that's done over and over again on daytime television? Jerks do have behaviors that are highly attractive to women. Simply examine your own relationship histories. Usually sometime in her late 20s or 30s women realize that it might be more intelligent to ditch the "gansta" for the engineer making 6 figures. KC was obviously not there yet and just entering her bad boy phase after dispensing with Jesse. In fact she turned Jesse into the loyal friend she could go to when her bad boys did something "bad".

Very true about young women of this age and "bad boys".
(On the other hand, I'm not sure JG was really in the tame or good boy category either, I think he was a bit of the same type (though not part of the gansta/hip hop scene.) He appears to have been pretty domineering, her family found him rather intimidating in their home, rather disrespectful and angry toward her parents, even long before Caylee went missing. You saw his behavior in the wake of the disappearance, inserting himself into the A home and the investigation, bossing everyone around, getting on the A's computer, etc. Since the disappearance he likes to describe himself as "righteous" and talk about how his life mission is to walk with God now, which you know is wonderful and I hope his faith gives him comfort through this, he's another young person trying to cope with this. But I don't think he was any kind of goody-goody or anything before. (Only judging from the bits and pieces of info we've seen. MOO.)

 

[seagull65]

Girls who LET guys treat them badly get what THEY let happen. TonE was forcing nothing on KC. She was a willing volunteer. Besides, I doubt he treated her that badly. Guys his age like sex and lasagna and will pretty much take what they can get.

I don't see anything wrong whatsoever in TonE or KC's desire to have sex with each other, clearly they were both interested, totally normal for both of them. It's his calling her a b*tch and having such a negative reaction when when she had plans with her girlfriend that should have been big red flags, as well as him and his friends liking to tease her to the point of tears. But maybe she was seeing the red flags, she might have dumped him and his friends too, just like AR, in time. It is very true that girls who let guys treat them badly can have bad things happen to them, but that doesn't make them responsible for bad things done to them by others. (I'm not saying TL did anything seriously wrong to her.) But everyone is responsible for his/her own actions. Just like KC is not responsible for TonE breaking into her father's shed. Nor is he responsible if she did anything criminal, obviously. Sad that they are both so young and for all we know, they could both be innocent victims in addition to Caylee.

 

[wicket]

Reading the logs where KC tells TonE she is at "work" and someone walks by making fun of her and saying 'she's in love'. Then Amy mentions bringing some packed items over to the house on Hopespring but KC says maybe tomorrow and immediately changes the subject. We know someone else who was a great fabricator, told talls tales about Paris, the Eiffel Tower, etc. - and he's sitting on death row. She seems to have similar character traits with a sociopath - neither helped in searching for their so-called loved ones. I rather doubt KC was planning the deaths of her parents though she might have wished it would happen. Lies come out of her mouth like air and she just goes onto another one to cover up the previous lie. Of course, just my opinion.

 

[yolorado]

I don't see anything wrong whatsoever in TonE or KC's desire to have sex with each other, clearly they were both interested, totally normal for both of them. It's his calling her a b*tch and having such a negative reaction when when she had plans with her girlfriend that should have been big red flags, as well as him and his friends liking to tease her to the point of tears. But maybe she was seeing the red flags, she might have dumped him and his friends too, just like AR, in time. It is very true that girls who let guys treat them badly can have bad things happen to them, but that doesn't make them responsible for bad things done to them by others. (I'm not saying TL did anything seriously wrong to her.) But everyone is responsible for his/her own actions. Just like KC is not responsible for TonE breaking into her father's shed. Nor is he responsible if she did anything criminal, obviously. Sad that they are both so young and for all we know, they could both be innocent victims in addition to Caylee.

Point 1. AFTER TonE called KC a biatch, and had a problem with something she told him, she kept on typin', kept on talking, kept the relationship going, kept on cooking for him and sleeping with him and even tried to move in to his home. She's responsible for staying in the relationship with the guy. Kids today call women and each other the 'b' word. Some women even use it to refer to themselves. She's wasn't responsible for what TonE said. She was responsible for putting up with it.

Point 2. Since, if I recall correctly, KC went with TonE to her house and TOLD TonE to break into the shed, she IS responsible for that just as much as he is.

Point 3. TonE has been drug into this horrid mess by KC. She's the 'bad girl' far, far more than he is the 'bad boy.' She is utterly responsible for her lies to him and all her other 'friends' and for not being honest about who she was.

Point 4. There is a great deal of indication that KC did not support her own child, that she put her social life and her own needs above those of her child, that she took Caylee to adult parties and slept with her boyfriends when Caylee was at times present, even occasionally sleeping in the same bed. She drug the child into her lies, obviously keeping the child with her when she told people she was at work and and that Caylee was with a nanny. Creating a fantasy life in which your child must dwell in order not to expose your own lies is completely abusive. Not reporting your child missing if they've been kidnapped and failing to help in the search for them would also be abusive beyond measure.

Point 5. MO, there is overwhelming evidence that KC's child died in her care and that, quite apparently, it was just peachy keen with her that way. She partied on while her child was missing. She continued her web of lies unflummoxed. She danced, cooked, texted, stole and had sex. She NEVER reported her child missing to anyone for 31 days until Cindy did. She didn't co-operate with the police. She has lied and disembled from Day 1, even moreso from Day 31. She still withholds the truth. What mother whose child is killed doesn't co-operate to find the killer, unless she did it herself. She is damn guilty and if she doesn't spend a good long time in jail, then justice isn't what it needs to be in America!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I don't see anything wrong whatsoever in TonE or KC's desire to have sex with each other, clearly they were both interested, totally normal for both of them. It's his calling her a b*tch and having such a negative reaction when when she had plans with her girlfriend that should have been big red flags, as well as him and his friends liking to tease her to the point of tears. But maybe she was seeing the red flags, she might have dumped him and his friends too, just like AR, in time. It is very true that girls who let guys treat them badly can have bad things happen to them, but that doesn't make them responsible for bad things done to them by others. (I'm not saying TL did anything seriously wrong to her.) But everyone is responsible for his/her own actions. Just like KC is not responsible for TonE breaking into her father's shed. Nor is he responsible if she did anything criminal, obviously. Sad that they are both so young and for all we know, they could both be innocent victims in addition to Caylee.[/QUOTE]

For all we know, I can't imagine how Casey could possibly be an innocent victim like Caylee. You really think she may be innocent?

 

[lin]

there hasn't been a trial yet, it's not actually known yet who murdered Caylee. You could be talking about an innocent person.

You appear to misunderstand: A trial will only accomplish a legal decision on the matter. The jurors will reach conclusions based on the evidence presented which may or may not reflect what actually happened or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

We are all free to do the same, ergo, reach a conclusion based on the evidence available to us which, imho, is overwhelming and solely indicative of KC's guilt and does not even suggest anyone else may have been involved. Regardless of what the defense brings up or whatever evidence may exist that we have not yet seen, there remains what we have seen and by which I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt and even beyond most unreasonable doubts.

 

[lin]

I don't see anything wrong whatsoever in TonE or KC's desire to have sex with each other, clearly they were both interested, totally normal for both of them. It's his calling her a b*tch and having such a negative reaction when when she had plans with her girlfriend that should have been big red flags, as well as him and his friends liking to tease her to the point of tears. But maybe she was seeing the red flags, she might have dumped him and his friends too, just like AR, in time. It is very true that girls who let guys treat them badly can have bad things happen to them, but that doesn't make them responsible for bad things done to them by others. (I'm not saying TL did anything seriously wrong to her.) But everyone is responsible for his/her own actions. Just like KC is not responsible for TonE breaking into her father's shed. Nor is he responsible if she did anything criminal, obviously. Sad that they are both so young and for all we know, they could both be innocent victims in addition to Caylee.

Very sad that it appears only one of the adults you mentioned was responsible for Caylee's welfare and as I just mentioned, it also appears was solely responsible for her murder.

 

[seagull65]

Point 1. AFTER TonE called KC a biatch, and had a problem with something she told him, she kept on typin', kept on talking, kept the relationship going, kept on cooking for him and sleeping with him and even tried to move in to his home. She's responsible for staying in the relationship with the guy. Kids today call women and each other the 'b' word. Some women even use it to refer to themselves. She's wasn't responsible for what TonE said. She was responsible for putting up with it.

Point 2. Since, if I recall correctly, KC went with TonE to her house and TOLD TonE to break into the shed, she IS responsible for that just as much as he is.

Point 3. TonE has been drug into this horrid mess by KC. She's the 'bad girl' far, far more than he is the 'bad boy.' She is utterly responsible for her lies to him and all her other 'friends' and for not being honest about who she was.

Point 4. There is a great deal of indication that KC did not support her own child, that she put her social life and her own needs above those of her child, that she took Caylee to adult parties and slept with her boyfriends when Caylee was at times present, even occasionally sleeping in the same bed. She drug the child into her lies, obviously keeping the child with her when she told people she was at work and and that Caylee was with a nanny. Creating a fantasy life in which your child must dwell in order not to expose your own lies is completely abusive. Not reporting your child missing if they've been kidnapped and failing to help in the search for them would also be abusive beyond measure.

Point 5. MO, there is overwhelming evidence that KC's child died in her care and that, quite apparently, it was just peachy keen with her that way. She partied on while her child was missing. She continued her web of lies unflummoxed. She danced, cooked, texted, stole and had sex. She NEVER reported her child missing to anyone for 31 days until Cindy did. She didn't co-operate with the police. She has lied and disembled from Day 1, even moreso from Day 31. She still withholds the truth. What mother whose child is killed doesn't co-operate to find the killer, unless she did it herself. She is damn guilty and if she doesn't spend a good long time in jail, then justice isn't what it needs to be in America!

This is the popular theory of course. However, there is no evidence so far that KC told Tony to break into the shed, nor is there any evidence so far that she dragged Tony into anything. For all we know it could be completely the other way around. I'm not accusing TL of anything, we just don't know yet whether KC was the murderer or someone else, who was involved in the murder, or who was involved even in the disposal of the body.

I agree with you that Caylee should never have been with KC when KC left the family home, KC didn't even have an apartment of her own much less the means to support Caylee. Caylee should have been with her grandparents until KC could provide in every way.

I agree wholeheartedly about the failure to report the disappearance. I think she could be convicted simply because of that, because it seems so incriminating. I wonder what the reason really was. Could be because KC killed the child, or it could be something else. MOO

 

[lin]

This is the popular theory of course. However, there is no evidence so far that KC told Tony to break into the shed, nor is there any evidence so far that she dragged Tony into anything. For all we know it could be completely the other way around. I'm not accusing TL of anything, we just don't know yet whether KC was the murderer or someone else, who was involved in the murder, or who was involved even in the disposal of the body.

I agree with you that Caylee should never have been with KC when KC left the family home, KC didn't even have an apartment of her own much less the means to support Caylee. Caylee should have been with her grandparents until KC could provide in every way.

I agree wholeheartedly about the failure to report the disappearance. I think she could be convicted simply because of that, because it seems so incriminating. I wonder what the reason really was. Could be because KC killed the child, or it could be something else. MOO

Au contraire. We do have evidence. TL's sworn statements are evidence. KC having possession of the cans and GA's sworn statements to that effect are evidence. KC's admissions in text messages from her telephone that she ran out of gas are evidence. TL having never been to the A home prior and being very, very unlikely to know of the existence of a shed, much less gas cans inside, are evidence.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Very true about young women of this age and "bad boys".
(On the other hand, I'm not sure JG was really in the tame or good boy category either, I think he was a bit of the same type (though not part of the gansta/hip hop scene.) He appears to have been pretty domineering, her family found him rather intimidating in their home, rather disrespectful and angry toward her parents, even long before Caylee went missing. You saw his behavior in the wake of the disappearance, inserting himself into the A home and the investigation, bossing everyone around, getting on the A's computer, etc. Since the disappearance he likes to describe himself as "righteous" and talk about how his life mission is to walk with God now, which you know is wonderful and I hope his faith gives him comfort through this, he's another young person trying to cope with this. But I don't think he was any kind of goody-goody or anything before. (Only judging from the bits and pieces of info we've seen. MOO.)

Well, at least HE was doing SOMETHING. KC did NOTHING..except create a Myspace page with Cindy..Big Whoop! Add to that, that IMO the rest of the A's were/are in cover up mode for KC and didn't even want anyone to search for Caylee, unless it was a live Caylee. What's up with that??? They didn't want her found if she was deceased, because they KNEW that it was KC that did this, though IMHO, they will NEVER admit it.

 

[seagull65]

I can't imagine how Casey could possibly be an innocent victim like Caylee. You really think she may be innocent?

Though I can't rule KC out, I'm still not 100% sure she's the murderer. I'll leave it at that so as not to take the thread off topic (I'll post a few of the main points on my profile page instead of here.)

I wouldn't compare Casey to Caylee, Caylee is the victim here clearly. But I do try to remember at all times when talking about the defendant or any of the players/witnesses, that any/all of these people could be innocent. That's why I won't accuse anyone yet. I'm hoping a lot more comes out at trial.

 

[seagull65]

Au contraire. We do have evidence. TL's sworn statements are evidence. KC having possession of the cans and GA's sworn statements to that effect are evidence. KC's admissions in text messages from her telephone that she ran out of gas are evidence. TL having never been to the A home prior and being very, very unlikely to know of the existence of a shed, much less gas cans inside, are evidence.

Sorry, I meant proof not evidence. I misspoke.
Of course TL's sworn statements are "evidence" in the case, but they're not proof . We have absolutely no way of knowing if his statements are accurate, complete, or true.

But if anyone is interested in TL's statements, he did tell LE in his own words that he was the one who broke into the shed. Didn't he also say in the IMs to KC that he does what he wants, when he wants to?

I'm not making any accusations against TL, but I don't think there's any need to make him into some kind of saint or pretend he is KC's pitiful puppet, is there? Like she could make him break into someone's shed?

He's responsible for his own actions.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

If one person's car had run out of gas and was left on the street with an empty tank and the second person took the first person home to get gas to take to their car, who would benefit most?

It seems far-fetched to imagine that Tony would call Casey and say, "Hey, are you out of gas? I have an idea; let's go steal some from your parents' shed." No?

 

[Pondering Mind]

If one person's car had run out of gas and was left on the street with an empty tank and the second person took the first person home to get gas to take to their car, who would benefit most?

It seems far-fetched to imagine that Tony would call Casey and say, "Hey, are you out of gas? I have an idea; let's go steal some from your parents' shed." No?

I know right?! I have to imagine that TonE broke into the shed at KC's request. After all, didn't George and Cindy state that she had done it before? So obviously, KC didn't have a problem doing it! :doh:

 

[wandering]

Reading the logs where KC tells TonE she is at "work" and someone walks by making fun of her and saying 'she's in love'. Then Amy mentions bringing some packed items over to the house on Hopespring but KC says maybe tomorrow and immediately changes the subject. We know someone else who was a great fabricator, told talls tales about Paris, the Eiffel Tower, etc. - and he's sitting on death row. She seems to have similar character traits with a sociopath - neither helped in searching for their so-called loved ones. I rather doubt KC was planning the deaths of her parents though she might have wished it would happen. Lies come out of her mouth like air and she just goes onto another one to cover up the previous lie. Of course, just my opinion.

I agree with you. I don't think KC plans anything. She just floats on, making stuff up as she goes along. What a dimwit. She sure does remind me of SP, too, playing everything by ear.

I guess she thought Amy would step back if she told her that George had a stroke, and forget about moving in. One could wonder how she gets out of the situations she puts herself in...seems she's well-practiced.

Cindy surely knows this about her.

 

[trixi491]

I love how in the chat she says "I have too much damn respect for my parents." Yet at the same time she's also telling TL that her dad is cheating on her mom and her mom is being "stupid" for staying with him. Which one is it KC?

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Though I can't rule KC out, I'm still not 100% sure she's the murderer. I'll leave it at that so as not to take the thread off topic (I'll post a few of the main points on my profile page instead of here.)

I wouldn't compare Casey to Caylee, Caylee is the victim here clearly. But I do try to remember at all times when talking about the defendant or any of the players/witnesses, that any/all of these people could be innocent. That's why I won't accuse anyone yet. I'm hoping a lot more comes out at trial.

But you did; you linked their innocence. You said, "they could both be innocent victims in addition to Caylee."

The way I think is that you hold no legal responsibility to find a person guilty or innocent unless you sit on the jury. Our social responsibilities, however; are different and fairness and common sense prevail. We must hold one another to moral standards that dictate the direction of our society. Not all trespasses are taken to court and we must make some judgements on our own to accept or declare wrongful actions unacceptable. It wouldn't be a healthy society if we all treated everyone innocent unless they had been tried by a court. We have to make our own judgements and register either an approval or disapproval on other peoples' actions in order to prevent our morals from degrading into nothingness.

 

[ibyoungr]

In the chat log.. 2 things stand out to me:

in 3 days to be exact...


and the second one.. Jules is a funny girl on JUNE 12, 4 days prior to Caylee's death. She speaks of Jules.. could this be Juliette Lewis?

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

What do those blue question marks represent in the documents? Is it something that's been redacted? It doesn't seem like they are normal question marks as they would be in the same font, wouldn't they? Does anyone have experience with this and know the answer?