Casey Anthony Legal Defense Strategies #2

[RR0004]

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." (attributed to Joseph Goebbels)

Some how, KC repeating some story several times does not bring it up to the level of truth, for me anyway. If it works for you... Well, each to their own.

You're right...a lie is a lie is a lie.

 

[Aedrys]

They are that - agreed - but even if it involved receiving money? Cindy who is (was) bogged down in debt?

I just wanted to comment on this. For Cindy, the biggest thing is not money, it's control. There is no way she would want that child where she didn't know what was going on with her and who she was with. She foolishly trusted Casey with Caylee, but I doubt she'd trust some random guy Casey screwed around with to be in Caylee's life or interact with Caylee.

Also, it's about possession, and there isn't any way she would give up any possession to anyone who wasn't Anthony blood. No way. She was the decision maker in Caylee's life, and she was going to be the only one if she had her way. Unfortunately, her pride and vision of a perfect family got in her way of seeing Casey for what she really was, and Caylee's life ended before she could get custody.

Finally it's about perfection. Not knowing who the father is, or who the father could be was fine with her. Better that than knowing who the father was. The father was just an imperfection in Caylee to be forgotten, nothing more than a sperm donor while Casey was MOTY. IMO, Cindy had no problem not having the father around as that shut the door on any imperfection. After all, the Anthony's are perfect! Better than anyone else! Why entertain who Caylee's father was, knowing what kind of girl Casey was and what kind of guys she slept with?

IMO, if Caylee were alive now, Cindy would have complete custody, and Casey would be out on the streets. Cindy treated Caylee as if CINDY was the one who gave birth to her, not Casey. So not having the father around, and not getting checks as a constant reminder of the father was a-okay with her.
All IMO.

And who knows, maybe Cindy made a deal with her - Cindy would provide all care to Caylee if Casey didn't pursue getting money from the father. I can totally see that.

 

[RR0004]

O/T but The ONLY reason I could think of to not want to get child support is if she were afraid for some reason of allowing the father visitation. I'm in sort of a similar situation, I know exactly who the father of my unborn child is but I don't plan on putting him on the birth certificate nor do I plan on seeking child support (as much as I'd really like to) because after 2 years and a brief engagement, he suddenly became a bit violent as I was 4 months along, cheated on me, started abusing drugs and alcohol, and threatened to kick me in the stomach..so I don't plan on filing child support because I don't want a person like that to have visitation with my baby. I just changed my number and washed my hands clean of him, hard as it was. If the father of my baby was married and didn't want to admit to having a baby with me, I'd be like "Tough, not my problem!" and would most definitely still hold him financially responsible! JMO

Again, considering how KC liked to take money from just about anyone, can't imagine why else she'd pass up a great opportunity like that for extra income.

Steph...stay away...far away...this story sounds remarkably familiar. Do not think this person will wake up one day and change. It will NOT happen. Right now you need to focus on yourself and your baby. Stress is NOT GOOD for either of you. Focus on your daughter and the joy of her being. You are the lucky one.

ETA: sorry for OT...but needed to add my 2 cents.

 

[Astraea]

Wasn't the death band hair found in the trunk of the car? I don't know if there is any comparison between a hair found in a disney plastic bag along with a water bottle with traces of steroids, and the interior of a locked trunk, is there?

Once again, I think you have misunderstood, or not read the posts that lead to the post you quoted. Or maybe you took it out of context. So I will clarify. The comparison was based merely on the "a single hair" comment made by another poster. The comparison seems obvious to me, in that they are both single hairs.

I already commented about the alleged death band, and the FBIs own opinion on that subject is recorded within the report pertaining to it.

 

[Astraea]

At this point i think the defenses best strategy is to let the SA keep on the current path. The more they find the less inclined I am to believe the scenario laid out before me now.

From what I understand, as an emotionally univolved individual, I am supposed to believe that:

Casey premeditated murdering her daughter months ahead of time.

She googled neck breaking shovel and chloroform in order to find ways to kill Caylee,

As a result of these searches she made chloroform and dosed Caylee with it, possibly with a syringe found at the dump site with somone elses hair.

She then, after chloroforming her daughter, wrapped duct tape that is similar, but not a match to the tape found at her residence, over her face tight enough to suffocate her and put a heart sticker on the tape as a sign of love, that has never been located, nor is there any documented proof of it being there other then ONE agent saying thats what they think they saw!

At some point she possibly moved her deceased daughter to different places in the back yard, at one point borrowing a shovel that she had to google months prior to know how to use, before putting her in the trunk of her car, that shows no absolute proof of human decomposition, and/or Caylee being dead in the trunk.

The kicker to this is that her motive was spite for her mother, love for TL, and god knows what else, despite everyone who KNOWS HER saying she loved Caylee more then anything.

There is of course much more I think about the evidence to date and the above is poorly written, but it is getting late!

I say let the SA keep on digging and delaying..it seems to be worling out really well for them thus far!

 

[Imbackon]

At this point i think the defenses best strategy is to let the SA keep on the current path. The more they find the less inclined I am to believe the scenario laid out before me now.

From what I understand, as an emotionally univolved individual, I am supposed to believe that:

Casey premeditated murdering her daughter months ahead of time.

She googled neck breaking shovel and chloroform in order to find ways to kill Caylee,

As a result of these searches she made chloroform and dosed Caylee with it, possibly with a syringe found at the dump site with somone elses hair.

She then, after chloroforming her daughter, wrapped duct tape that is similar, but not a match to the tape found at her residence, over her face tight enough to suffocate her and put a heart sticker on the tape as a sign of love, that has never been located, nor is there any documented proof of it being there other then ONE agent saying thats what they think they saw!

At some point she possibly moved her deceased daughter to different places in the back yard, at one point borrowing a shovel that she had to google months prior to know how to use, before putting her in the trunk of her car, that shows no absolute proof of human decomposition, and/or Caylee being dead in the trunk.

The kicker to this is that her motive was spite for her mother, love for TL, and god knows what else, despite everyone who KNOWS HER saying she loved Caylee more then anything.

There is of course much more I think about the evidence to date and the above is poorly written, but it is getting late!

I say let the SA keep on digging and delaying..it seems to be worling out really well for them thus far!

So, what scenerio do you come up with that you think makes sense where it does NOT INVOLVE Casey?

 

[zoey]

I think the insanity part will be those of us trying to figure out that family of dysfunction and so on...along those lines listening to them testify will also put us over the edge...

as for the defense using it???? don't think it will happen--jb shot that down long long time ago......

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Having documented proof didn't even work for Andrea Yates. She was found guilty. God told her to do it, and she knew it was wrong to kill, therefore the jury decided she was not insane because she knew right from wrong. The poor woman thought that killing her children and sending them to heaven was the only way to save them from Satan. It was only years later on appeal that she was found to be insane. She is now institutionalized and will probably never be released.

You are correct, for AY it didn't work the first time but did win an insanity defense on the second trial. I always thought AY was overcome by PPD and had a psychsis episode when she did this to her children. All proof of depression on medications and an overzealous jury didn't see the implications of how her husband kept her barefoot and pregnant, having one child after the other and wasn't in her right mind. Her calling 911 to tell them what she's done was was viewed incorrectly. She immediately states God told her to do this and her children would be better off..so sad...JMHO


I too feel Inmate Anthony was pushed over the edge by a domineering, controlling mother who had caused much resentment between a daughter and her child. I know this can't been seen the same as Yates but she should give it a shot and plead out to manslaughter...all that she did after the fact of Caylee's alleged abduction, proves she knew right from wrong or she wouldn't have hid her..KWIM...

 

[CarolinaMoon]

You are correct, for AY it didn't work the first time but did win an insanity defense on the second trial. I always thought AY was overcome by PPD and had a psychsis episode when she did this to her children. All proof of depression on medications and an overzealous jury didn't see the implications of how her husband kept her barefoot and pregnant, having one child after the other and wasn't in her right mind. Her calling 911 to tell them what she's done was was viewed incorrectly. She immediately states God told her to do this and her children would be better off..so sad...JMHO


I too feel Inmate Anthony was pushed over the edge by a domineering, controlling mother who had caused much resentment between a daughter and her child. I know this can't been seen the same as Yates but she should give it a shot and plead out to manslaughter...all that she did after the fact of Caylee's alleged abduction, proves she knew right from wrong or she wouldn't have hid her..KWIM...

Back when Casey was in the Universal conference room, she told Melich and Allen that if she had wanted to be free of Caylee, she would have given her parents custody.

At that time, she clearly demonstrated she knew she had an alternative to murder.

What got in Casey's way was her jealousy of her own daughter, a sick form of sibling rivalry as has been discussed here. IMHO, the desire to get back at her parents for loving Caylee too much was to take her away permanently.

Her decision was calculating and bizarre, not insane.

I also don't think she would be able to take a plea for manslaughter at this point. With the discovery of the duct tape and the heart sticker, the State would never even offer the plea. They might settle for life, never manslaughter.

 

[LambChop]

I of course care very much that Caylee lost her life and was quite obviously disposed of in a horrific manner, but for me, she already has her justice, she is with God.

With all due respect I am not sure what is meant here:

Justice: fairness or reasonableness, especially in the way people are treated or decisions are made

Is it that the decisions that were made and how Caylee was treated is now somehow fair to her because she died? Or have I missed something?

 

[ZsaZsa]

At this point i think the defenses best strategy is to let the SA keep on the current path. The more they find the less inclined I am to believe the scenario laid out before me now.

From what I understand, as an emotionally univolved individual, I am supposed to believe that:

Casey premeditated murdering her daughter months ahead of time.

She googled neck breaking shovel and chloroform in order to find ways to kill Caylee,

As a result of these searches she made chloroform and dosed Caylee with it, possibly with a syringe found at the dump site with somone elses hair.

She then, after chloroforming her daughter, wrapped duct tape that is similar, but not a match to the tape found at her residence, over her face tight enough to suffocate her and put a heart sticker on the tape as a sign of love, that has never been located, nor is there any documented proof of it being there other then ONE agent saying thats what they think they saw!

At some point she possibly moved her deceased daughter to different places in the back yard, at one point borrowing a shovel that she had to google months prior to know how to use, before putting her in the trunk of her car, that shows no absolute proof of human decomposition, and/or Caylee being dead in the trunk.

The kicker to this is that her motive was spite for her mother, love for TL, and god knows what else, despite everyone who KNOWS HER saying she loved Caylee more then anything.

There is of course much more I think about the evidence to date and the above is poorly written, but it is getting late!

I say let the SA keep on digging and delaying..it seems to be worling out really well for them thus far!

Umm- you left out the part about being an Unfit Mother.

From my handy dandy ABA Family law guide, the definition is:
A parent who has been abusive or has otherwise failed to provide adequate care for the child.
WE know her own Mother called her an unfit Mother many times.. remember she was going to seek Custody on that basis. A claim like that would not succeed without proof.

 

[Just Jayla]

Back when Casey was in the Universal conference room, she told Melich and Allen that if she had wanted to be free of Caylee, she would have given her parents custody.

At that time, she clearly demonstrated she knew she had an alternative to murder.

What got in Casey's way was her jealousy of her own daughter, a sick form of sibling rivalry as has been discussed here. IMHO, the desire to get back at her parents for loving Caylee too much was to take her away permanently.

Her decision was calculating and bizarre, not insane.

I also don't think she would be able to take a plea for manslaughter at this point. With the discovery of the duct tape and the heart sticker, the State would never even offer the plea. They might settle for life, never manslaughter.

I don't think manslaughter or insanity will work-Under other circumstances, she might have been able to plea to manslaughter, if this were a case where the average taxpayer wasn't paying a lot of attention to the trial...
But with so many Floridians having a pretty detailed understanding of what may have happened to Caylee, I would think the state could not put themselves in a position of giving her a 20 year sentence-It sends a horrible message to would-be murderers and the press would skewer the state for it.

There is no chance regarding insanity. Yes, they can try it, but KC clearly knew that what she did was wrong when she did it, as one of the first actions she took, that we know of, was to wrap Caylee up and hide her in the trunk. Caylee was wrapped up and hidden so quickly, in fact, that the entymologist report found that the larvae settlement had been delayed, that certain flies did not have immediate access to her body.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

respectfully snipped...

Her decision was calculating and bizarre, not insane.

I also don't think she would be able to take a plea for manslaughter at this point. With the discovery of the duct tape and the heart sticker, the State would never even offer the plea. They might settle for life, never manslaughter.

ITA!

I'm not saying the state would offer her a plea deal, that shipped sailed long ago. I'm thinking she should admit to what she's done, this would ensure she would get a life sentence vs a DP sentence, IMO a death sentence is too easy, no suffering involved. Her being put to death would be much kinder than the death Caylee received but I'd rather see her spend the rest of her life behind bars for that would be the ultimate payback for a party hearty girl.

Justice for Caylee

 

[Anais]

Having documented proof didn't even work for Andrea Yates. She was found guilty. God told her to do it, and she knew it was wrong to kill, therefore the jury decided she was not insane because she knew right from wrong. The poor woman thought that killing her children and sending them to heaven was the only way to save them from Satan. It was only years later on appeal that she was found to be insane. She is now institutionalized and will probably never be released.

We lived in Texas when this trial was going on. Interesting side note is that there was another mother in Texas who killed her children around the same time frame by bashing their heads in with a rock. The devil told her to do it, and therefore it was decided she did not know it was wrong. She was found innocent by reason of insanity. Shows just how "insane" the definition of the insanity defense is in most states. Both these women were legitimately very ill.

The big difference is that Andrea Yates had a very well documented history of serious depressive and PPD disorders. In fact her very own husband knew that she was a danger when he took her home from the hospital shortly before the crimes yet he left those children alone with her. I realize he thought in only one hour my mother will be there however it was far too much time.

In any case Inmate Anthony does not meet the legal definition of "insanity" or any where near it. Every crime that she ran around comitting she made every attempt to cover it up and knew full well what she was doing was wrong. I really don't think the defense will go with this route, to do so would be at their own peril. I think they will go with SODDI and, or contaminated evidence.

 

[Purple Iris]

Here's something completely out of the box ~
An insanity plea would not work now, but, what if all of the delays, and dilly-dalling around in an attempt to buy them time, is so that Casey can "go crazy" while sitting it out?

Let a year or more of time go by, with Casey safely tucked away in jail, with no communication from family, friends, society, etc.

The little social butterfly snaps some afternoon right before the eyes of the officer on duty.
If she really put on a show, and it "looked" like she had really gone off the deep end, would she be kept in jail, or, would they move her to a mental facility and again put the trial on stand-by??

Then, they don't have to have her admit to anything, and she can sit it out in some mental facility pretending to count butterflies.

 

[LambChop]

Here's something completely out of the box ~
An insanity plea would not work now, but, what if all of the delays, and dilly-dalling around in an attempt to buy them time, is so that Casey can "go crazy" while sitting it out?

Let a year or more of time go by, with Casey safely tucked away in jail, with no communication from family, friends, society, etc.

The little social butterfly snaps some afternoon right before the eyes of the officer on duty.
If she really put on a show, and it "looked" like she had really gone off the deep end, would she be kept in jail, or, would they move her to a mental facility and again put the trial on stand-by??

Then, they don't have to have her admit to anything, and she can sit it out in some mental facility pretending to count butterflies.

I believe that was one reason why they evaluated her right up front after she was arrested. jmo

 

[Purple Iris]

I believe that was one reason why they evaluated her right up front after she was arrested. jmo

Yeah, I know that she was checked out upon entering the Orange County Jail, but, I meant that she/they may try for her to just snap, crackle and pop one of these days, BECAUSE of her being in jail??

That the stress and confinement, and, the lack of social interaction and her parents not being able to visit or call, just sent her over the ledge that she had been so honorably holding on to cause she is innocent.
She just couldn't take it any longer, and, her rubberband snapped and broke??

 

[logicalgirl]

Yeah, I know that she was checked out upon entering the Orange County Jail, but, I meant that she/they may try for her to just snap, crackle and pop one of these days, BECAUSE of her being in jail??

That the stress and confinement, and, the lack of social interaction and her parents not being able to visit or call, just sent her over the ledge that she had been so honorably holding on to cause she is innocent.
She just couldn't take it any longer, and, her rubberband snapped and broke??

That's a really interesting question Purple Iris - why not put it to AZLawyer or someone on the legal thread?

 

[LambChop]

Yeah, I know that she was checked out upon entering the Orange County Jail, but, I meant that she/they may try for her to just snap, crackle and pop one of these days, BECAUSE of her being in jail??

That the stress and confinement, and, the lack of social interaction and her parents not being able to visit or call, just sent her over the ledge that she had been so honorably holding on to cause she is innocent.
She just couldn't take it any longer, and, her rubberband snapped and broke??

But she would be judged on what happened at the time, what her state of mind was at the time....was she sane. Not if she has snapped in the meantime. Right? It was reported by SB that a Sgt. that normally comes around with the medical staff visits KC in the morning, opens the cell door and talks to her. It is possible he is talking with her to evaluate how she is doing so that she is not totally cut off from human conversation. I would imagine if she were starting to come unglued they would help her with medications. jmo

 

[Anais]

Yeah, I know that she was checked out upon entering the Orange County Jail, but, I meant that she/they may try for her to just snap, crackle and pop one of these days, BECAUSE of her being in jail??

That the stress and confinement, and, the lack of social interaction and her parents not being able to visit or call, just sent her over the ledge that she had been so honorably holding on to cause she is innocent.
She just couldn't take it any longer, and, her rubberband snapped and broke??

Purple Iris I also wonder if the law or how this would be handled varies from state to state. For example we had such a case here in Waukesha, Wi. and during the time the person was moved from a regular jail cell to a "Psych Ward Cell Block" until they were deemed fit and sane to stand trial. While in Psych they are treated by court appointed psychiatrists and visited also by psychologists.

Great Question for the legal thread!