Casey Anthony Legal Defense Strategies #2

[impatientredhead]

Yep, and setting this up may be the reason she won't see her parents in jail - "I'm just so horrified that I can't look them in the face."

I bet this is what JB will go with. Wouldn't he need to put KC on the stand though? I can't see him wanting to do that. And if this is the "defence", why wouldn't they have already spoken to LE about this instead of waiting until trial?

Because convincing a jury of reasonable doubt and convincing detectives your story is true are two totally seperate things. Casey will never ever be on the stand.

I don't think you will see JB lay out a "this is what happenened and here is your murder" defense. For one submitting what you know to be false information is a major ethical issue. But if Jesse is on the stand and JB can make him look the least bit shady, and then he gets Cindy to flipout with even mildly accusing questions, and he gets George worked into a snit (wasn't your suicide attempt really a means to end your guilt?). Or he can focus in on one of them, like Cindy, by asking LE and FBI about all the lies she told, who knows what the PI's could say, getting all the friends to comment on Casey's relationship with her mother, entering the custody issue etc....

 

[impatientredhead]

Under that scenario, why would Cindy track down KC & drag her home?

Nobody was looking for Caylee or KC. If Cindy had told Shirley KC was working somewhere and taking responsibility for her own child, Cindy's whole family would have rejoiced. As it was, while KC was living her "beautiful life" for 31 days, Shirley was saying Cindy needed to live her own life and move on. (Shirley's e-mails are on this pdf: http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155446.pdf)

Shirley kind of verifies that Cindy told her about Juliet coming into the Anthony house, when she writes to her sister and says that "Cindy needs to lock Casey out". Shirley sounds concerned about Casey's friends being able to get into Cindy's house when Cindy doesn't know.

If KC thought Caylee was alive and well with her mother, why was she still calling or texting her mother every day to pacify her? Why did KC run when her brother went looking for her?

Why did KC interupt her first day after her FIRST FULL night of love with Tony to run to the Anthony next door neighbor's house to borrow a shovel?

When George brought the car home and said he opened in front of the tow yard guy, and the tow yard guy recognized the smell, Cindy had to do something as it was entirely possible that the tow yard guy would report the incident.

KC and her drama with her mother is well documented. She was avoiding her family to avoid the custody issue, to avoid discussing the money she owned them, to avoid signing paperwork....

The shovel happens on the 18th, and she went while he was at school if I remember correctly. Borrowing a shovel is not proof of murder or even of wrongdoing.

 

[Jolynna]

When George brought the car home and said he opened in front of the tow yard guy, and the tow yard guy recognized the smell, Cindy had to do something as it was entirely possible that the tow yard guy would report the incident.

KC and her drama with her mother is well documented. She was avoiding her family to avoid the custody issue, to avoid discussing the money she owned them, to avoid signing paperwork....

The shovel happens on the 18th, and she went while he was at school if I remember correctly. Borrowing a shovel is not proof of murder or even of wrongdoing.

Tony skipped school so entranced was he from the morning delight.

Simon Burch said he had forgotten about the stinky car until it made the news and then LE pulled it back to his lot. He would NEVER have said a word to anyone. My uncle owns a towyard. Sticky cars even ones with dead people and animals happen frequently. Since Simon looked in the car and trunk and trash and found nothing, he WOULD NOT have called anyone. He had fixed the problem when he threw the trash bag away.

There was NO reason for Cindy to call LE except to pressure KC into giving up Caylee's location. Amy and Lee both saw Cindy tear into KC trying to get her to tell where Caylee was.

 

[lin]

You could only get the accident theory out there as one of several possibilities. Going the round about way you ask all the people who said in sworn statements that Casey was a great mother, would never harm her child, and some of them even said it would have been an accident and a cover up.

My only point with my previous post (because again I think she will be executed for killing her child, but my for the sake of arguement posts get quoted and then I have to answer all the "you have got to be kidding, the evidence is overwhelming" posts),

but all of the evidence we have seen can be spun in another direction:

Any body found 6 months after the fact you can and will see an expert on the stand giving a different window of time of death, or saying that it cannot be pinpointed to a window smaller than a month.

The evidence of a body being in the trunk, there is evidence that the car was with other people, that Casey was driving vehicles other than the Sunfire, Casey does not own that vehicle, etc....

Her actions after the fact can either be dealt with head on, my client is not a likable person, I am not asking you to like her or invite her over..... or you can take the route of the last verifiable siting is with Cindy on the 15th and that Casey was out and about for a month because she had finally given into Cindy's demands of custody.

I don't think any of that will work, but none of the evidence is black and white in front of a jury. There is room to work when you acknowledge he does not have to prove she didn't do it. If he manages to keep the initial statements out (just like you try to keep confessions out) that will be a major win on the defense side.

And again, I think she is guilty, I think the state has done a great job, I think she will die for her actions.

I agree with you that none of that will work. I am very confident the totality of the evidence will overwhelm the jury. Maybe this piece of evidence or that piece of evidence could have another explanation, no matter how unlikely. However, when the evidence starts stacking up, what may have seemed "possible" initially will seem less and less likely as fitting into any pro-defense theory, imo. We can't pre-play the state's entire case on this thread to build that entire proof beyond a reasonable doubt based on a totality of overwhelming evidence that the state will offer. Even so, if the defense were to offer a whole great big lot of other "coulds" or "possiblys" I don't think the jury is going to ignore the singular fact that KC is Caylee's guardian and knows to whom she gave Caylee, if she did. That KC doesn't tell who that is will make the truth obvious -- she didn't transfer control or custody. I truly believe it will be a lot closer to black and white when the state is done than anyone who has been jaded by months of studying the evidence so far could possibly imagine.

IF KC takes the stand, it will be suicide by jury, imo.9

 

[lin]

Put Casey on the stand....blame it on CA....as a negligent cause of death, and claim fear of losing her sole support system as the reason for saying Zanny instead of my mom. Tell them you didn't have a dead Caylee in the back of your car, but there was a time when your dad had possession of it, and it stunk to high heaven after he did.

Tell the jury that your parents (or CA alone) told you that they are sorry, but now you can have the beautiful life, and no need for Cindy to lose her nursing license over this, we'll take care of everything, if anyone asks where Caylee is, just tell them, she's with Zanny! (And the proper name is something we will figure out later, if we need to have someone specific!, OK), and by golly, when the towyard people smelled that car, my parents (my mom for sure, not sure about dad) had no choice but to try to blame me, because they KNEW there is NO WAY to convict an innocent person in this country, and that although I might have to spend some time in jail, it will be worth it in the end! Saying to me:.....You are a young person, and have your whole life (child free) ahead of you once you get out!

When I called mom and told her about the smell in the car and the car getting towed, she told me not to worry about it, that her (and dad) had it under control! Come to think of it now, I don't think my mom ever told my dad about what happened, and that's why she freaked on July 15th, and I was jailed on a whim! My mom was trying to keep my dad from finding out! AFterall, she even tried to get him to let HER drive the car home from the towyard, he was Sooooooo upset!

I told mom in the jailhouse visit not to worry because I hadn't told them anything, so she wouldn't worry that she was going to be found out! If it wasn't for my mom, dad and I wouldn't be able to live, SHE is the breadwinner, afterall! So, I really had NO idea how she disposed of Caylee, and when I saw the news after they found a body on Suburban, and the state of the remains, I put two and two together, and OMG, I had no idea my mother could have been so diabolical. Poor Caylee! So, see, I knew it was no accident, and I didn't cause it, therefore I'm innocent of these charges of 1st degree murder, sure, I lied to LE, but outside of that, I was just following mom's script for me. What else was I suppose to do? JMO of what might be coming down the pike!

KC would never survive cross. Not in a million years. It's all fun and games until LDB stands up and starts walking toward her...

 

[tweety933]

KC is on the stand, the evidence shows that KC is a pathological liar, and has been for quite some time, therefore ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it is reasonable to conclude that Miss Anthony also Lied about what happened to Caylee,,.....although the lie wasn't to cover up a murder, but to protect her breadwinning mother from a negligent act that caused Caylee's death. So, see how proving Casey to be a pathological liar, also works for the defense in explaining how reasonable and consistantly she lies, it doesn't make her a killer, just a liar, and a poor one at that! Therefore, you can find her guilty of lying, which is four of the seven counts, but other than that, you must find her not guilty because Caylee died some other way, and it was not Caseys fault. CA is now under the bus.

 

[lin]

I really appreciate those who are trying to come up with a defense theory. It's a noble effort and one that likely goes totally against the beliefs of most who are trying. I'd help you out but I can't think of any theory that explains away all the evidence. And so far, I haven't read one either, at least to my satisfaction but I'm not on the jury so I guess that doesn't matter.

It can't be AH, JG or whomever because they didn't have access to Caylee except through her mother and her mother isn't pointing the finger at them. Not to mention all were cleared by LE.

It can't be a stranger for the same reason. No reporting and no access per the only witness and only guardian.

G and C have likewise been cleared by LE and for the reasons above in this post and reasons previously stated in this thread and others, I know if I were on the jury, I'd see through this. I think there's an excellent probability that given all of the evidence against KC and lack of evidence against anyone else, this attempt would backfire bigtime with a jury. But again, I'm not on the jury and I'm no expert.

 

[lin]

KC is on the stand, the evidence shows that KC is a pathological liar, and has been for quite some time, therefore ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it is reasonable to conclude that Miss Anthony also Lied about what happened to Caylee,,.....although the lie wasn't to cover up a murder, but to protect her breadwinning mother from a negligent act that caused Caylee's death. So, see how proving Casey to be a pathological liar, also works for the defense in explaining how reasonable and consistantly she lies, it doesn't make her a killer, just a liar, and a poor one at that! Therefore, you can find her guilty of lying, which is four of the seven counts, but other than that, you must find her not guilty because Caylee died some other way, and it was not Caseys fault. CA is now under the bus.

See, you lose me at KC is on the stand. I don't see that happening. And you're just giving the direct scenario. She'd be crucified on cross by LDB.

 

[Jolynna]

KC is on the stand, the evidence shows that KC is a pathological liar, and has been for quite some time, therefore ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it is reasonable to conclude that Miss Anthony also Lied about what happened to Caylee,,.....although the lie wasn't to cover up a murder, but to protect her breadwinning mother from a negligent act that caused Caylee's death. So, see how proving Casey to be a pathological liar, also works for the defense in explaining how reasonable and consistantly she lies, it doesn't make her a killer, just a liar, and a poor one at that! Therefore, you can find her guilty of lying, which is four of the seven counts, but other than that, you must find her not guilty because Caylee died some other way, and it was not Caseys fault. CA is now under the bus.

Why did Cindy write the myspace blog about Missing Caylee? She didn't know about the car yet? Why did she rant to her mother about missing Caylee? Why tell her co-workers and alert them to a potential problem.

Alll Cindy had to do was say KC is working in Jacksonville and has Caylee with her. Problem solved.

No Cindy was taking days off because she was so upset. She was drafting e-mails to KC trying to get KC to know how not seeing or talking to Caylee was tearing her up. Why try to track KC down? Why try to call Juliet?

 

[tweety933]

See, you lose me at KC is on the stand. I don't see that happening. And you're just giving the direct scenario. She'd be crucified on cross by LDB.

She has more to lose by not getting on the stand IMO! At least she could explain, or at least try to explain....otherwise, the evidence against her will give her the needle. I can imagine her insisting to have the opportunity to explain! Given the evidence, what has she got to lose? OK, so she's proven to be a liar, that will be proven without her taking the stand, the jury may not believe a word she says, but she can also get them to doubt a word she has "ever" said, such as, I know I lied, and told everyone Caylee was kidnapped by a nanny named Zanny, but that was a lie because I had to lie to protect my mom.

I believe that KC thinks she can lie herself out of this is what I'm saying! I personally believe that KC is responsible, you know that, I'm role-playing here and forget precedent, KC is UNIQUE and so is CA, and so is this "situation" with Caylee.

Can you explain the crucifixion on cross by LDB, that LDB can't get accomplished without cross-examining her?

 

[mysteriew]

I think that JB will go with psychiatric issues. I think he will play with pointing toward Jesse and CA and maybe even GA. But opportunity will be a huge hurdle in accusing them and I don't think he will rely on that. I think that he will stress the "stress" that KC was under. "Young mother", "pressure" and "competition from mother", But I think he will end by saying the death was an accident. And that after Caylee's death, she suffered a psychotic break. That she was unable to deal with the loss of Caylee and in her mind came up with a scenario that a babysitter did it. And that she then either couldn't remember doing all those things to Caylee's body (driving around with it, taping it and etc) or that she then tried to match the scene that she saw in her head with the remains by putting tape on her body and etc. And that she then consoled herself with the fact that Caylee was at the sitters and she was free to party. I think he will say that she truly believes that the babysitter did it. And that when her remains were found, it was a total surprise and shock to KC.

And IMO that is the weakest part of the state's case. Because the autopsy doesn't show COD. Can the state prove the tape was applied to a living Caylee?

I think that while KC was sitting at JB's office she was probably also seeing shrinks and psychologists, until JB got one that could tell the right story. JB will try to incite CA while he has her on the stand. And yes, I do think the issue of who Caylee's father is will come up in trial.

 

[carrie]

I don't see this happening. LE has checked out JG thoroughly, with his cooperation, and he is clean. Honestly, IMO, I am not sure this case will ever see a courtroom. I am thinking that KC will "take it as far as she can" and when it comes real close to time for trial, she will try to deal. And, if she does, I hope the SA says "No way, Jose!"

(above BBM)

That is just too funny!! LOL

 

[lin]

She has more to lose by not getting on the stand IMO! At least she could explain, or at least try to explain....otherwise, the evidence against her will give her the needle. I can imagine her insisting to have the opportunity to explain! Given the evidence, what has she got to lose? OK, so she's proven to be a liar, that will be proven without her taking the stand, the jury may not believe a word she says, but she can also get them to doubt a word she has "ever" said, such as, I know I lied, and told everyone Caylee was kidnapped by a nanny named Zanny, but that was a lie because I had to lie to protect my mom.

I believe that KC thinks she can lie herself out of this is what I'm saying! I personally believe that KC is responsible, you know that, I'm role-playing here and forget precedent, KC is UNIQUE and so is CA, and so is this "situation" with Caylee.

Can you explain the crucifixion on cross by LDB, that LDB can't get accomplished without cross-examining her?

You did a stellar job, imo, of representing a direct examination summary. I'd really like to see you put on the hat of LDB. And I think it will fit a lot better.

I totally agree with you that KC may believe that she can lie her way out of this; she's been trying for over a year. I also agree with you that she doesn't see how unbelievable she is and may want to try to do just as you say. If she does, make no mistake, it will be against her lawyers' strongly worded advice.

When I wrote "cross" I meant cross examination. When I wrote LDB would crucify her on cross I meant that LDB will rip her to shreds when cross examining her. And I'd still like to see you take on that role!

I'll even start for you... "So let me get this straight, Ms. Anthony. To protect your mom, you say, you drove around for days with your daughter's dead body in your trunk until you threw her triple bagged body in a swamp somewhere, like trash. Is that correct? Can you explain to the jury how actually giving your child a decent burial rather than throwing her away like trash, would have interfered with protecting your mother? And as you say, this accident happened when your mother was caring for Caylee, so can you tell us exactly when it happened and how you came to find out about this "accident" caused by your mother? Were you aware that according to Gentiva work records she was working in that time frame? (alternately if it's she gave Caylee for a month) And can you tell the jury who cared for Caylee while your mother worked?"

 

[lin]

I think that JB will go with psychiatric issues. I think he will play with pointing toward Jesse and CA and maybe even GA. But opportunity will be a huge hurdle in accusing them and I don't think he will rely on that. I think that he will stress the "stress" that KC was under. "Young mother", "pressure" and "competition from mother", But I think he will end by saying the death was an accident. And that after Caylee's death, she suffered a psychotic break. That she was unable to deal with the loss of Caylee and in her mind came up with a scenario that a babysitter did it. And that she then either couldn't remember doing all those things to Caylee's body (driving around with it, taping it and etc) or that she then tried to match the scene that she saw in her head with the remains by putting tape on her body and etc. And that she then consoled herself with the fact that Caylee was at the sitters and she was free to party. I think he will say that she truly believes that the babysitter did it. And that when her remains were found, it was a total surprise and shock to KC.

And IMO that is the weakest part of the state's case. Because the autopsy doesn't show COD. Can the state prove the tape was applied to a living Caylee?

I think that while KC was sitting at JB's office she was probably also seeing shrinks and psychologists, until JB got one that could tell the right story. JB will try to incite CA while he has her on the stand. And yes, I do think the issue of who Caylee's father is will come up in trial.

I think you've outlined well what TL wanted to do.

I disagree though, that no COD will hurt the state's case because there is just too much other stuff. Remember Laci and Connor? And that was in CA, not FL, and there is a LOT more evidence here, imo. No COD is going to play against an accidental death defense, imo, but not the state. I think folks are going to not want to reward her for tossing Caylee away in a swamp and never leading anyone to her, causing the lack of COD. I think the jury is going to put great weight on duct tape over nasal passages in conjunction with this.

 

[MissJames]

Just for the sake of arguement (because I believe she will be executed by the state of Florida):

The car was out of Casey's possession since at least the 27th.
The time of Caylee's death can be challenged forensically.
The car belongs to Cindy.
KC has a lack of grief at Blockbuster because she didn't know her child was dead.
Cindy has lied to the LE and FBI over and over again.
Probably more than Casey has since she stopped talking and Cindy didn't.
The jailhouse call "You don't know my involvement?"
The jailhouse call "Don't worry I haven't told them anything."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74105&highlight=story In this thread we discussed plausible stories that we could come up with back in November. Post 23 is mine against Cindy. One of our other posters has one for George.

ETA- Cindy called the police because she realized the people at the towyard might call the police since George opened the trunk. Her first two calls, which didn't result in the police coming, were clearly to place the vehicle out of Cindy's possession and into her thief of a daughter's possession.

Oh Geez,
you almost have me believing it!

 

[MissJames]

She has more to lose by not getting on the stand IMO! At least she could explain, or at least try to explain....otherwise, the evidence against her will give her the needle. I can imagine her insisting to have the opportunity to explain! Given the evidence, what has she got to lose? OK, so she's proven to be a liar, that will be proven without her taking the stand, the jury may not believe a word she says, but she can also get them to doubt a word she has "ever" said, such as, I know I lied, and told everyone Caylee was kidnapped by a nanny named Zanny, but that was a lie because I had to lie to protect my mom.

I believe that KC thinks she can lie herself out of this is what I'm saying! I personally believe that KC is responsible, you know that, I'm role-playing here and forget precedent, KC is UNIQUE and so is CA, and so is this "situation" with Caylee.

Can you explain the crucifixion on cross by LDB, that LDB can't get accomplished without cross-examining her?

It would not surprise me if KC insisted on taking the stand. Her lawyer can strongly advise against it,but he can't stop her.

 

[Mystic]

See, you lose me at KC is on the stand. I don't see that happening. And you're just giving the direct scenario. She'd be crucified on cross by LDB.

I agree, she won't be taking the stand. My just listening to her being interviewed by LE annoyed the heck out of me and I was immediately at 'charge her' not knowing anything else. There is something about her speach pattern that I can't put my finger on, well other then how she evades the questions asked. Definately SA would use such an opportunity to crucify her.

I think she will sit at trial pretty much like SP did... looking detached and as if they are talking about somebody else.

 

[Tuba]

Despite her usual habit, on the outside, of pushing herself forward and presenting herself bald face, she has consistently avoided even appearing in court. She slunk around the family home after the 15th of June, evading George and Cindy. She is, of course, very much aware of what she has done. The act she put on for OCSO failed in a mortifying and conspicuous way and she is in withdrawals from her normal assertion and aggression. Can't see her testifying in her own behalf.

 

[tweety933]

You did a stellar job, imo, of representing a direct examination summary. I'd really like to see you put on the hat of LDB. And I think it will fit a lot better.

I totally agree with you that KC may believe that she can lie her way out of this; she's been trying for over a year. I also agree with you that she doesn't see how unbelievable she is and may want to try to do just as you say. If she does, make no mistake, it will be against her lawyers' strongly worded advice.

When I wrote "cross" I meant cross examination. When I wrote LDB would crucify her on cross I meant that LDB will rip her to shreds when cross examining her. And I'd still like to see you take on that role!

I'll even start for you... "So let me get this straight, Ms. Anthony. To protect your mom, you say, you drove around for days with your daughter's dead body in your trunk until you threw her triple bagged body in a swamp somewhere, like trash. Is that correct? Can you explain to the jury how actually giving your child a decent burial rather than throwing her away like trash, would have interfered with protecting your mother? And as you say, this accident happened when your mother was caring for Caylee, so can you tell us exactly when it happened and how you came to find out about this "accident" caused by your mother? Were you aware that according to Gentiva work records she was working in that time frame? (alternately if it's she gave Caylee for a month) And can you tell the jury who cared for Caylee while your mother worked?"

Well, the defense strategies is the topic of "this" thread, so here goes....
THIS might be how Casey could respond to that.....

I didn't know what caused the stink in my car, my dad told me that he hit a squirrel while he was using my car there for a few days. I didn't have any idea what my parents had done with Caylee, they just told me they would take care of it, and honestly, I was kinda relieved of the burden of caring for Caylee, so "in a backwards kinda way", I was celebrating my freedom. Caylee died the day my mom took her to Mr. Dora to see my grandpa on father's day. They told me that night when I came home. My mom even played the audio of the last recording of Caylee's voice to me over the phone the day she called 911 to remind me about how happy Caylee was her last day alive, so that I wouldn't tell the cops the truth. My mom was petrified that she would lose her nursing license over what happened to Caylee while she was with my mom. I trusted that my parents could handle the situation, and when they told me to "get out" of the house, it was because they needed me to be gone so they could explain why Caylee was not in the home any longer. I kept messing up by staying in Orlando, and this made my mom very nervous, and when the towyard found out about the car, my mom panicked "on a whim", and called 911.

 

[lin]

For those attempting to come up with a defense strategy, this video featuring WFTV legal analyst Bill Schaeffer examines some testimony and credibility of witnesses issues that should be considered.