Casey & Family Psychological Profile #1

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KIKI the Parrot--you are correct. I know a family with the same dynamics. I don't dare relate on line, but I am so floored by the denial of one parent and how sentimentality rules rather than reasoning.
 
Bookworm: How much of her problems is the culture she was trying so hard to master?
I shared similar concern which appears earlier (a couple pages ago) in this thread (you're welcome to go back and read my "book" but here's an excerpt:

We can call Casey an evil monster and search no farther for understanding; or we can hold her harmless because she's "sick" and say it's not her fault, "she just can't help it." But the truth lies somewhere between. If young people are being raised in an increasingly selfish narcissistic culture today; if my own daughter even exhibits disturbing narcissistic traits, I truly believe Casey has full blown NPD—and desperately needs help if she's ever going to confront the truth

I DEFINITELY believe that in addition to parental influence, that this Y-generation-20-something-it's-all-about-me-everyones-a-celebrity culture is contributing in a major way to such a narcissistic trend in this society, no doubt.
 
In particular the pressure to self-promote on social networking sites strikes me as unhealthy. (Do "you have 491 'friends'" or can you count on one hand?) There is a superficiality and a shallowness in this virtual world where people market and advertise (and frequently misrepresent) themselves it's disturbing really. Casey would seem a perfect storm of all of the above (parental, social influences), Caylee's death the ultimate tragic cost.
 
I have read somewhere while researching Carl Jung material that some people identify with their shadow side. They believe they are bad as a basic premise. I have to wonder if in KC's life this was since she had Caylee or she just didn't get a foundation for a healthy personality from the beginning. Seem's like the birth of Caylee was more of a 'loss' to her development rather than a motivation for maturity. The games she has played with all the personalities in her head seems like a failure to have a core self---for herself. She has a SELF disorder. Just when it began, I can not tell. She has needed help, but no one has identified the root of her problem. If they even noticed.


Pretty much what you described is how a person with personality disorders feel... Personality disorders are a disorder of self.

They feel unloved, unloveable, unworthy, ugly inside, tainted. They are their own worst enemy. Addicts, abuse victims, even people with Bipolar disorder often feel the same way- it's one of the many reasons it's so hard to get us to get help.. without our pain, our self-hatred we don't know who or what we are.
 
Granted there is nothing about Casey's reaction, in the aftermath of an accidental scenario that is how any caring, reasonable, responsible ADULT would respond. But I'm wondering, if you take an ALREADY immature, insecure, manipulative, deceitful, narcissistic "unfit" mother (who's btw basically been BEGGING all her life for some SEMBLANCE of LIMITS or BOUNDARIES on her outrageously bad behavior) PRIOR to June 16th; then imagine (it's not hard) like a self-fulfilling prophecy, her negligence precipitates her child's death (if indeed, as I suspect, accident scenario resulting from poor supervision) compounded by inability to reach the only ones she trusted in those critical minutes, coupled by increasing paranoia of being discovered while desperately attempting to escape reality... I mean this would push someone even w/out fullblown borderline or NPD over the edge to something even more pathological, right? All those high-risk compulsive behaviors start to escalate (stealing, lying, spending etc) as the promiscuity seems to reach a fever pitch during the aftermath of the traumatic event. Every time I think of those initial conversations with her brother, it is to me a glaring, flashing neon SIGN the way she keeps TELLING Lee repeatedly that their mother was right all along, maybe she IS an unfit mother afterall, alluding to this whenever she is pressed for the TRUTH. When unable to produce or account for her child, in her most vulnerable moments, Casey is sharing and ADMITTING that she IS a poor mother. But the vulnerability begins to dissipate under pressure, as she resorts to self-deprecating ("Maybe I'm just a spiteful b*") a tactic used in my experience in place of true remorse by those lacking genuine empathy; and by the time their mother's re-entered the room, Casey's resumed her defensive posture and reverts to fabricating. What's WRONG with this picture? Looks to me as if Casey would rather SERVE A LIFE (OR DEATH) SENTENCE THAN ADMIT THE TRUTH TO HER MOTHER. She made other very telling remarks to LE to this effect ("I KNOW my mother will NEVER forgive me," etc) and begins posting ominous and fatalistic messages on her website all of which show, IMO if not remorse, EXTREME consciousness of guilt. But sadly which might be avoided if raised in an environment of both GRACE (for mistakes or imperfections) and TRUTH (consequences/accountability). Instead it seems deceit, permissiveness, self-preservation and fear have somehow been learned, and appearances have taken on more importance than operating in reality. IMO neither this family nor her attorney seem to be serving her best interests. What does it profit Casey to gain the whole world--her freedom--if she loses her soul?

She wants her mothers love and acceptance... that's all she has ever wanted. She absolutely fears "losing" her mother more than her daughters death. it's freaky and it's hard to make sense of but it's true.
 
One Lost Girl--why do you think Casey didn't keep her job after the birth or find at least a decent part time job somewhere? Why the charade and all the word games??
 
Bookworm: How much of her problems is the culture she was trying so hard to master?
I shared similar concern which appears earlier (a couple pages ago) in this thread (you're welcome to go back and read my "book" but here's an excerpt:

We can call Casey an evil monster and search no farther for understanding; or we can hold her harmless because she's "sick" and say it's not her fault, "she just can't help it." But the truth lies somewhere between. If young people are being raised in an increasingly selfish narcissistic culture today; if my own daughter even exhibits disturbing narcissistic traits, I truly believe Casey has full blown NPD—and desperately needs help if she's ever going to confront the truth

I DEFINITELY believe that in addition to parental influence, that this Y-generation-20-something-it's-all-about-me-everyones-a-celebrity culture is contributing in a major way to such a narcissistic trend in this society, no doubt.

I'm with ya!!

IMO the "Y-generation-20-something-it's-all-about-me-everyones-a-celebrity" culture has a lot to do with the fact that they have always been made to feel they are so much more special then everyone else. If a kid can throw a ball, his mom tells him he will pitch for the major leauges. If she is in honors classes she is told her whole life that she is a genius.

She's on the Honor roll (she's so smart!), modeling classes (so beautiful!), softball (sports minded!), cheerleading (beautiful AND sports minded!) and she got accepted into that school we told you about- she is going to be a lawyer! plus wow, look at this picture she painted today- isn't she amaaazing?" *puuurr*.

That's so damaging to children because what happens when she fails at one of those things- who's she gonna be then? Those are the only things her own parents refer to her as!

Why do people do that to their kids?!
 
One Lost Girl--why do you think Casey didn't keep her job after the birth or find at least a decent part time job somewhere? Why the charade and all the word games??

Well, obviously I can't know why she stopped working, (I don't even know why she left her job in the first place) but I suspect she probably had attendence problems prior to having Caylee. How long did she even have the job?

As far as her behavior worsening, I think when she and Jesse broke up she kinda gave up on herself. He seems to have been the only person to have honestly cared for her, the only one willing to stand up to Cindy on her behalf. I think when Jesse decided she was no longer worth the trouble, she decided he must be right.

Please don't mistake this as me saying this is when I think her issues began because I think the roots of her illness were already deeply rooted in the ground before Jesse came along. She began her relationship with him witholding her pregancy from him then lied to him about being the father and also cheated on him.
 
Casey may have some mental illness along with a personality disorder, but many people with these conditions will work and not hurt children. I think Casey is mostly a lazy opportunist who cares only for herself and getting what she wants the crookedest way she can gives her some smug sense of excitement and getting one over on the suckers. She was even looking into hooking which is another way to get easy money.
 
Casey may have some mental illness along with a personality disorder, but many people with these conditions will work and not hurt children. I think Casey is mostly a lazy opportunist who cares only for herself and getting what she wants the crookedest way she can gives her some smug sense of excitement and getting one over on the suckers. She was even looking into hooking which is another way to get easy money.

I agree which is the main reason I speak out and am more than willing to share my "uglies" here at WS in the manner I do.

I was raised in a personality disordered home... I was also misdiagnosed, untreated, often suicidal and sometimes Psychotic. Some of my other wonderful qualities were that I cheated on my husband and I was a selfish, manipulative, lying, stealing, drug addicted felon who blamed everyone but myself for my problems.

Admittedly my son should have been taken away from me many times. He is damaged because of me, because of choices that I made... that in itself is horrible obviously. However, through all of this I never laid a hand on my child. It's why I stay so riled up when I see people pointing at a mother who murders her children and say "She killed her kid because she is mentally ill" because IMO unless there is an issue like Andrea Yates, I'm sorry but you chose to do what you did and I know that!
 
At first, the evidence pointed to the idea that Casey wouldn't tell her mother that Caylee died, because she needed her mother's love and acceptance.

Then, chloroform came into the picture.

That suggested some kind of plot, so Casey could be free of Caylee.

Then I saw where Casey said to the police, "If I wanted to get rid of Caylee, I would have just given her to my mother and walked away."

And then I learned people that age are experimenting with chloroform in sex, which explains the web searches for chloroform.

The chloroform found was a very pure form of chloroform, which a young adult could not buy.

That's when the case became sinister.

A woman said she saw a girl on a plane who called herself Caylee Marie Anthony. Authorities said she wasn't a creditable witness, giving reasons such as, maybe she didn't remember accurately and she reconstructed details that fit this case.

But the authorities didn't need to discredit the woman. Just find out if a woman, her son, and a little girl were on that flight: like the woman said. Find out if they were from North Carolina, and what are their names. The authorities would logically go to see them, which is not too hard.

But that didn't happen. Instead, the authorities handled the witness by discrediting her.

As I studied more closely, I saw Casey had a conflict with her boyfriend Jesse Grund who she truly loved. It is easy to see why she loved him. They look alike in their faces. They are a perfect match.

Jesse didn't want the responsibility of a child and he suggested adoption. Casey wanted Caylee. Jesse has a brother or cousin who was in the police, and was involved with missing children.

That sent up the first big red flag. Jesse was indirectly involved with the police and with missing children and Jesse didn't want a child. But he wanted Casey. They tried to make it work for two years of him playing father. He had connections to the police and to missing children. That's a red flag. Jesse had a motive: he didn't want Caylee. And he indirectly had opportunity that could have created the kind of mess we are looking at today.

Now the authorities look suspicious. Where did the very pure chloroform come from that a young adult could not purchase? The body guards look too much like super-pro body guards that only the authorities could find or hire. Casey mentioned there was a script she was supposed to follow for 30 days. Now a woman says Caylee is alive and well in North Carolina, a lead that the authorities are ignoring.

After many weeks and it has not gone as planned, Casey sounds disgusted and believable when she now insists Caylee is alive, Caylee may be in danger, and that she very much wants to see her daughter again.

Someone should ask if Caylee usually introduced herself as Cayleemarieantiny, all one word, the way the woman on the plane said the little girl introduced herself.

If Caylee does introduce herself that way, the authorities are ignoring the solution to the case.
 
I know this might be slightly off topic, but everytime I read these things about the generation and other "reason" for someone's behavior I think of a line from a book I read once. For the life of me I cannot remember the name of the book but the line was "we are all victims of the time we were born into"
I think there have been many winners and losers born at various times in our history. People struggle to overcome and do the best they can with whatever is thrown at them. No excuses, no reasons , they live and survive. I am so puzzled as to why this girl had a mother who was a nurse and didn't know her daughter had problem?? What kind of training has Cindy Anthony had anyway? Did Casey have medical problems.. why did she have a seizure? How could she be pregnant for 7 mos and her mother doesn't notice?? A nurse and she doesn't know her daughter is pregnant? I had a nurse in my family and believe she watched over all of us..eating too much, depression, she was a mother hen. Drove us all nuts sometimes, but she sure knew her medicine. I just don't understand this Anthony family at all. Way above my pay grade I guess.
 
Amma - I think it has to be more than just abuse. at some point, she failed to develop a conscience or empathy for others. that usually happens when a child fails to bond with the mother. for whatever reason, Casey failed to bond with Cindy as a baby. that thus made her unable to bond with Caylee, or empathize with any of her victims. If she is so callous as to lead JG on for months thinking he was the father, to steal from her own parents and grandparents, to steal from her friends, and to lie to everyone...why should we think it should be different with her own child?

FC: I would like to counter this with the proposal that in fact, Casey and Cindy are so bonded their relationship could be called enmeshed. They measure all their actions and comments based on how it will affect the other. Cindy pays attention to Caylee to demonstrate her disapproval of Casey. Casey takes off with Caylee intermittently to demonstrate her disapproval and spite for Cindy. These two are peas in a pod fighting for power rights. They are in a death struggle.

I do not believe she stole the large amounts of money from her parents as we've been thinking. I think she was given a great deal of money. Not from Cindy, who does believe the money was stolen by Casey. But George....I think HE gave her money. I believe George and Casey hold the secret to the dynamics of the family. She manipulates and controls her father with a big secret. What one big secret is there in that family that everyone dances around? The father of Caylee. Yes, I'm saying it. I am saying that George has had an incestuous relationship with his daughter for what appears to be years. I'm saying she hid the fact of her pregnancy in true Anthony fashion, pretending the "elephant in the living room" wasn't really there until there was no pretending any longer. She then sought out other men to blame the pregnancy on to protect the dirty secret at home. Contrarily, she also blames her mother for her predicament. What mom wouldn't protect her daughter from this kind of horror? This only fuels Casey's already narcissistic issues of being "daddy's special princess" (my quotes) and ignites that death struggle between mother and daughter. And then there's Caylee. Now Casey has physical proof of her father's dirty secret, and I'd bet anything that the money started REALLY disappearing after Caylee's birth. It doesn't take much stretch to hear her say "Pay me or I'll tell mom all about her precious granddaughter." or something along those lines.

Anyway, my wild proposition all goes to the dynamics of this family, the "why are they like this?" and "how could Casey do something to that beautiful child??" questions that are asked a lot. This is my theory only. I notice this entire family is instantly ready to lie when they sense one of the other members may have done something or said something that would get them into trouble. They immediately cover it up. They do it as a unit, they function as a team, even if independent of one another. The hypervigilant clues they leave for one another is astounding. I listened to the (I believe it was the) second telephone conversation in the jail between Casey and Lee. They were talking in code. What were they saying. They weren't finishing sentences, talking in generalities, avoiding issues like "Has anyone found Caylee yet???" It is very bizarre. What did Casey ask Lee to do for her? What did Lee tell her he was going to do? Why?

I guess I could go on and on....and have. Again, my modest proposal.
 
At first I thought Casey wouldn't tell her mother that Caylee died because she needed her mother's love and acceptance.

Then, chloroform came into the picture.

That suggested some kind of plot so Casey could be free of Caylee.

Then I saw where Casey said to the police, "If I wanted to get rid of Caylee, I would have just given her to my mother and walked away."

And then I learned people that age are experimenting with chloroform in sex, which explains the web searches for chloroform.

But the chloroform found was a very pure form of chloroform, which a young adult could not buy.

That's when the case became sinister.

A woman said she saw a girl on a plane who called herself Caylee Marie Anthony. Authorities said she wasn't a creditable witness, giving reasons such as, maybe she didn't remember accurately and she reconstructed details that fit this case.

But they didn't have to discredit the woman. Just find out if a woman, her son, and a little girl were on that flight, like the woman said. Find out if they were from North Carolina, and what are their names. The authorities would logically go to see them, which is not too hard.

But that didn't happen. Instead, the authorities handled the witness by discrediting her.

As I studied more closely, I saw that Casey had a conflict with her boyfriend Jesse Grund that she truly loved. It is easy to see why she loved him. They look alike in their faces. They are a perfect match.

Jesse didn't want the responsibility of a child and suggested adoption. Casey wanted Caylee. Jesse has a brother or cousin who was in the police, and was also involved with missing children.

That sent up the first big red flag. Jesse was indirectly involved with the police and with missing children and Jesse didn't want a child. But he wanted Casey. They tried to make it work for two years of him playing father. He had connections to the police and to missing children. That's a red flag. Jesse had motive: he didn't want Caylee. And he indirectly had opportunity that could have created the mess we are looking at today.

Now the authorities are acting strange. Where did the very pure chloroform come from that a young adult could not purchase? The body guards look too much like super-pro body guards that only the authorities could find and hire. Casey mentioned there was a script she was supposed to follow for 30 days. Now a woman says Caylee is alive and well in North Carolina, a lead that the authorities are ignoring.

After many weeks and it has all gone bad, Casey sounds believable when she now insists Caylee is alive, Caylee may be in danger, and that she very much wants to see her daughter again.

Ask someone if Caylee usually introduced herself as Cayleemarieantiny, all one word, the way the woman on the plane said the little girl introduced herself. If she does introduce herself that way, then the authorities are ignoring the solution to the case.

Alot of kids do this - mine did - mine were likely to add their address
or phone number with it too - I taught them to know it by age 3

LE did not ignore her - they did try and validate her story - the woman
herself is saying they didnt investigate but they interviewed her
I think more than once - she just didnt get the attention she obviously
wanted regardless of what she claims .

you are making assumptions we dont know
yet all that LE has done . Rather hard to believe she is alive
with hair and decomp in the trunk of her car verified as being Caylee

Too many here want to blame someone else other than Casey
for what has happened - She made the choices - all of them
and that is her burden to bear

I want to stress that enabling and allowing children to avoid
consequences ( spoiling them ) is also a form of abuse

My sibling who was the " golden child " is a full blown NPD . The sibling flew under the radar for years then the death of our father caused a narcissitic injury and wingnut dropped the mask of sanity - it was successfully in place for 40+ years - spiraling out of control the damage done to our mother our sister and myself is horrifying and mind boggling
Sister and I are still dealing with the damage almost three years later
The bottom line is the sibling is not who they pretended to be and
the things wingnut did were cruel inhumane depraved indifferent
callous greedy and appalling . It took over a year to uncover the
depth of deception fraud larceny everytime we thought finally we
were at the bottom - another piece was found out the bottom lowered
even further.

I dont see Casey as abused in the traditional sense but like my sibling
spoiled indulged and never held to account .

My sibling will tell ugly tales of abuse too - only problem is wingnut is borrowing my stories - I was the scapegoat - the bad child - the target of my BPD mothers rage the incidents happened - only they happened to me.

My sister and I finally had to accept who and what wingnut is
we have cut all contact otherwise we would still be exploited.
We cant fix wingnut - we didnt cause it and we cant allow
any more access for to do so invites more exploitation.
 
Alot of kids do this - mine did - mine were likely to add their address
or phone number with it too - I taught them to know it by age 3

LE did not ignore her - they did try and validate her story - the woman
herself is saying they didnt investigate but they interviewed her
I think more than once - she just didnt get the attention she obviously
wanted regardless of what she claims .

you are making assumptions we dont know
yet all that LE has done . Rather hard to believe she is alive
with hair and decomp in the trunk of her car verified as being Caylee

Too many here want to blame someone else other than Casey
for what has happened - She made the choices - all of them
and that is her burden to bear

I want to stress that enabling and allowing children to avoid
consequences ( spoiling them ) is also a form of abuse

My sibling who was the " golden child " is a full blown NPD . The sibling flew under the radar for years then the death of our father caused a narcissitic injury and wingnut dropped the mask of sanity - it was successfully in place for 40+ years - spiraling out of control the damage done to our mother our sister and myself is horrifying and mind boggling
Sister and I are still dealing with the damage almost three years later
The bottom line is the sibling is not who they pretended to be and
the things wingnut did were cruel inhumane depraved indifferent
callous greedy and appalling . It took over a year to uncover the
depth of deception fraud larceny everytime we thought finally we
were at the bottom - another piece was found out the bottom lowered
even further.

I dont see Casey as abused in the traditional sense but like my sibling
spoiled indulged and never held to account .

My sibling will tell ugly tales of abuse too - only problem is wingnut is borrowing my stories - I was the scapegoat - the bad child - the target of my BPD mothers rage the incidents happened - only they happened to me.

My sister and I finally had to accept who and what wingnut is
we have cut all contact otherwise we would still be exploited.
We cant fix wingnut - we didnt cause it and we cant allow
any more access for to do so invites more exploitation.

It sounds you have had a hell of a time *hugs*. Personality disorders are so sad for the silent victims- the children who are born to mothers "suffering" from them.
 
It's usually inaccurate if you come up with a theory based on all the possibilities for who the father is; so in your imagination you dig up the most insidious scenario without any supporting facts besides the idea that "it could have happened that way".

That kind of reasoning isn't productive in finding the truth.

The strongest interpersonal dynamic was that Casey truly loved Jesse, and Jesse didn't want Caylee even if she was his child. They argued over it for two years, with Casey vehemently opposing him for wanting Caylee to disappear from their relationship.

That is the strongest real motive I have found so far. And Casey consistently wanted to keep Caylee.

Quote: "LE did not ignore her - they did try and validate her story - the woman
herself is saying they didn't investigate but they interviewed her
I think more than once - she just didn't get the attention she obviously
wanted regardless of what she claims."

Don't interview the woman who told the story, find the woman from North Carolina. An easier way to see if the story is real is to ask the Anthony family if Caylee usually introduced herself as Cayleemarieantiny, all one word. The woman who told the story could not know that. She only reported what she heard.

And it was Jesse who wanted Caylee to disappear. I didn't know that until I learned it from TV on Saturday, a repeat of an earlier show...
 
snipped: The strongest interpersonal dynamic was that Casey truly loved Jesse, and Jesse didn't want Caylee, even if she was his child. They argued over it for two years, with Casey vehemently opposing him for wanting Caylee to disappear from their relationship.
That is the strongest real motive I have found so far. And Casey consistently wanted to keep Caylee.

Guess I've missed this - how did you arrive at this conclusion? I thought Jesse adored Caylee and was very willing to be her Daddy even though she wasn't his biological baby. Please enlighten me....Thanks
 
Don't interview the woman who told the story, find the woman from North Carolina. An easier way to see if the story is real is to ask the Anthony family if Caylee usually introduced herself as Cayleemarieantiny, all one word. The woman who told the story could not know that. She only reported what she heard.

She reported this exactly but AFTER GA's video had come out explaining how Caylee said her name. Now that's interesting, isn't it?

MOO
 
It's usually inaccurate if you come up with a theory based on all the possibilities for who the father is; so in your imagination you dig up the most insidious scenario without any supporting facts besides the idea that "it could have happened that way".

That kind of reasoning isn't productive in finding the truth.

The strongest interpersonal dynamic was that Casey truly loved Jesse, and Jesse didn't want Caylee, even if she was his child. They argued over it for two years, with Casey vehemently opposing him for wanting Caylee to disappear from their relationship.

That is the strongest real motive I have found so far. And Casey consistently wanted to keep Caylee.

Quote: "LE did not ignore her - they did try and validate her story - the woman
herself is saying they didn't investigate but they interviewed her
I think more than once - she just didn't get the attention she obviously
wanted regardless of what she claims."

Don't interview the woman who told the story, find the woman from North Carolina. An easier way to see if the story is real is to ask the Anthony family if Caylee usually introduced herself as Cayleemarieantiny, all one word. The woman who told the story could not know that. She only reported what she heard.

And it was Jesse who wanted Caylee to disappear. I didn't know that until I learned it from TV Saturday Night, a repeat of an earlier Nancy Grace show...


Link to NG show you're referring to, please?
 
The strongest interpersonal dynamic was that Casey truly loved Jesse, and Jesse didn't want Caylee even if she was his child. They argued over it for two years, with Casey vehemently opposing him for wanting Caylee to disappear from their relationship.

That is the strongest real motive I have found so far. And Casey consistently wanted to keep Caylee.

Quote: "LE did not ignore her - they did try and validate her story - the woman
herself is saying they didn't investigate but they interviewed her
I think more than once - she just didn't get the attention she obviously
wanted regardless of what she claims."

Don't interview the woman who told the story, find the woman from North Carolina. An easier way to see if the story is real is to ask the Anthony family if Caylee usually introduced herself as Cayleemarieantiny, all one word. The woman who told the story could not know that. She only reported what she heard.

And it was Jesse who wanted Caylee to disappear. I didn't know that until I learned it from TV on Saturday, a repeat of an earlier show...

You're kidding. Those tips turned out to be ridiculous. Even Cindy agreed the Airport one (Wanda) was BS. And, even Cindy said in the interview Jesse wanted to be a father to Caylee and cared for her. Add to that all the supporting information about Jesse - and for you to still go there is flat out odd and suspect to me.
 
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