Casey & Family Psychological Profile #2

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That's part of it, I think. KC was the perfect little coddled princess that could do no wrong, and did not have to ever grow up. She has a profound sense of entitlement. She was being replaced by Caylee, and forced to assume some responsibility.

Again, an overly simplistic evaluation. Indications are at the very least a ongoing struggle to live up to expectations that may have fluctuated or have been in flux due to frustration on the part of the parents.
 
There are alot of big psych words thrown around - bipolar, narcissism, pathological, sociopath .. attention-seeking.

As a professional psychologist and psychiatrist, I strongly disapprove diagnosing people with various diseases without personally examining them, but we are all free to speculate. This goes for professionals as well as laymen. I want to clear some things up. I don't claim to know it all, I would just like a healthy discussion.

Is Casey A Narcissist?
Description: Narcissism is extreme self-love. Narcissists often think about marrying themselves, admire themselves, feel like they are the center of the world, even when they are denied. They have trouble empathizing and rationalize their wrong behavior even if it takes disregarding logic. That being said, it's not always a bad thing. Narcissism is very common in great leaders, innovators, etc. There is no connection between this personality and violence. Attention seeking is not narcissistic. Narcissists are actually almost NEVER insecure. They do not feel the need to lie, because they already think they are the best. They are not ashamed of their actions. Thus, they often don't sense when they are hurting others.
My Opinion: I do not believe she is any more narcissistic than other people. She seems to lack empathy, but this trait is not exclusively for narcissists. She does seek attention, twist words and tries to make puzzles out of everything. A true narcissist would not go so far to lie. They would probably be proud of something like murder.

Is Casey Bi-Polar?
Description: Bi-polar disorder is a depressive disorder. It can be identified when 2 things are present: Long bouts of depression, and manic high-energy moments. The most common type of bipolar sufferer experiences mostly depression, with one or 2 manic attacks in their lifetime. They will be considered "depressed" by a layman but they still have the biological disease called Bi-polar. There are other types, but this is the most common.
My Opinion: No, she is not. I haven't seen any evidence of extended periods of depression. Depressed people don't like to party, be around others, etc.


Lastly, I am surprised the Psychologists on NG don't speak up about this. Polygraphs (or any saline-related lie detectors) are only 61% accurate - a bit higher than chance. Over 30 states do not allow them to be admissible in court. In Flordia, unless both parties agree 100% on evidence, polygraphs cannot be used in court. It seems very backwards that they are putting so much emphasis on an outdated technology. They are useful to speed up criminal investigations, but personally, I would not take a polygraph except in an emergency. It is not accurate enough.

Yes, KC is what is sometimes called a "malignant narcissist." I do not think KC is bipolar-- she would no be able to be that cool and calm-appearing for that long. She'd likely break silence on an up-cycle.
 
The depression lasts way more than the highs. Casey is constantly on a high. I would not clasiffy her as bi-polar just from what I've seen. "Manic" is a good word for her.

Hypomanic.
 
I agree - I am just speculating. From cases I've seen - I really just doubt it. Her chances of having bipolar are slim - just me speculating.

I also am against saying she has any mental handicap (that is what these disorders are, that is why these people get help) I think she has no excuses. No mental state or feeling that made her do it. I think she was well-aware of what she was doing. She knew it was wrong but she did it anyway because she thought she could get away & she thought she could hide it & lie her way out of it.

I think a large piece of the puzzle is missing here, and there is a huge reason why Casey started hating Caylee. Psychologically alot is missing from motive. She seemed to be disassociated from her and no longer considered her her daughter.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong. I hope Caylee didn't suffer.

I agree!

But, the missing piece isn't really missing. Sociopath-psychopath-antisocial personality disordered people cannot bond normally. She could ACT the perfect mother, but had never bonded as a mother does.
 
Casey has been allowed to get away with a lot for a long time, her whole life.George and Cindy may be nice people, but to me they do not have very good parenting skills.Casey has been going down hill for a long time. C@G have allowed her to make her own decisions or bad decisions since High School. How does a senior in HS get as far as 2-3-days from graduating only to find out that they are 1/2 credit short. Where they not seeing her report cards or being informed by the school. She is immature for her age as well, especially being a mother. She was hanging out with single college minded, and young working adults. She was living and acting like she was still in High School.That was the life she wanted. Carefree with no responsibilities. She was able to live the last 2 years without a job, what were her parents thinking she was doing with her money.They never saw a pay check, never saw her with money, she lived at home, the car was in their name so they were paying the insurance, Cindy was paying for all of Caylee's needs, and she was complaining. So of her friends knew she was a liar and a thief. She changed friends when they were on to her. The new set of friends had not been in the picture long enough to see her lying and cheating ways. I don't know what her problem is, I think there may be a new diagnosis coming into the picture on this one. JMO

My guess is several dx, under Axis II.
 
I think that one of the most overlooked things in this case is the dynamics of this entire family.....although I truly believe LE has a good grasp on it.
There seems to be this huge control issue in this family. Not so much the issue of control but who is trying to control what. Long before poor Caylee went missing.
One of the biggest clues to this family's dynamics is CA's behavior. It seems as though her entire life is ruled by keeping control over how others view this family.
From what we have seen every thing about her is about controlling how her family is perceived and trying to control how they are perceived. However it seems as though the only member of this family who has control over CA is KC.
KC seems to be able to do what ever she wants and CA is right on her heels to cover it up and make it look like something else.
It is more than obvious that KC has learned the behavior of constantly lying to make herself appear to be something she is not from her mother.
This behavior is the norm and entirely excepted for this family.
Why the constant need to have a certain appearance to others.
Why?????
What is it that she and this entire family does not what anyone to know????
Is there some big family secret????
What is it that gives KC control over CA and how this family could be perceived?
I have pondered these questions for along time. And what it keeps leading me back to is a theory that many WS's have hit on.
I truly believe the key to this whole case starts with KC's pregnancy.
Who really is this baby's father???????
I truly believe that this is the issue that has created this power play, so to speak, in this family. And what is the cause of the dynamics of this family.

Why would a man that was a cop and a woman who is a nurse deny that their own daughter was even pregnant???? WTF....When it was blatantly obvious to others she was.
More importantly, why...why...why....does no one know or admit to who this child's father is??????
Why the need to go out of the way to try to pin the fatherhood on someone that she knew wasn't the father????(thank GOD Jesse had brains enough to has testing done)
Why the need to constantly change story of who father is....to only finally pin it on some poor dead guy(by the way how convienent)
I remember LP stating that LE knows who the father is....hmmmm!!

There are alot of unanswered questions that seem to lead to this family's bizarre behavior but quite possibly lead to understanding their entire family dynamics.
So my final question.....is CA's taking a stand and calling KC on her behavior, joblessness and lack of responsibility with her child and telling her that she needed to become responsible for them both....to keep up the charade of appearance .......the breaking point for KC???????

I doubt that the identity of the father has any bearing on anything.

The family was dysfunctional LOOONG before the pregnancy.

KC was the indulged princess. She was never expected to be responsible. She was tacticly allowed to do anything she wanted. She was supported financially, and if she got into trouble, it was covered up.

Along comes Caylee, and the rules change. Caylee eclipsed KC as the family "princess." Suddenly the family are demanding that KC grow up, get a job, and be a mother, while Caylee is as indulged as much as KC had been. Caylee is the new favorite.

That's a recipe for rage and jealousy. In the case of a sociopath, it's also a recipe for negligence or homicide.
 
As has been stated by others, NO MATTER WHAT KC's official diagnosis might be (cause I think we can argue about this until the cows come home and not resolve it)-----------HOW DID SHE GET THAT WAY? WHAT CAUSED IT? I believe that is the answer.........not the disorder itself. MOO

Some think it's genetic, some think bad background. Most therapists seem to think it's both.
 
"Sociopathy" and "psychopathy" are alternate names for "antisocial personality disorder." DSM changes the names, from time to time. They all refer to the same constellation of symptoms. They are not different syndromes.

I agree that these terms are often used interchangeably to describe individuals with ASPD. However, psychopathy and ASPD are not synonymous and interchangeable terms. While only ASPD is currently available as a DSM diagnosis, psychopathy is a very real syndrome/classification -- psychopathy is one of the most extensively researched and intensely debated topics in psychology. Psychopathic inventories and classification systems are often applied to forensic populations to assess future dangerousness and propensity to recidivate, among other things. Almost all psychopaths can be diagnosed with ASPD. Many individuals with ASPD cannot be classified as psychopaths.
IMO ASPD is a rather flat category based upon conduct and behavior, whereas psychopathy contemplates behavioral, motivational and emotional traits. When I say psychopath, I don't mean ASPD. I mean ASPD-plus.
Diane Downs was diagnosed as having HPD, NPD and ASPD. She was also classified as a psychopath.
 
Again, an overly simplistic evaluation. Indications are at the very least a ongoing struggle to live up to expectations that may have fluctuated or have been in flux due to frustration on the part of the parents.


..which is a BIG part of it. We have a nasty set of double-messages from CA-- "you are a lousy mother," "you are a good mother," "I demand that you be a good mother, but I have a fluctuating definition of the criteria for same."

Then, there is the berating of KC at home, and unqualified defense of her to outsiders. Typical closed-system family.

IMHO
 
Some think it's genetic, some think bad background. Most therapists seem to think it's both.

What is the advantage of making pronouncements that continually paint the family in a bad light rather than searching for an understanding? I certainly hope more information is forthcoming at the trial.

At this point the persecution has been so relentless that it's becoming a wash. Casey may go free solely on her inability to receive a fair trial.
 
I agree that these terms are often used interchangeably to describe individuals with ASPD. However, psychopathy and ASPD are not synonymous and interchangeable terms. While only ASPD is currently available as a DSM diagnosis, psychopathy is a very real syndrome/classification -- psychopathy is one of the most extensively researched and intensely debated topics in psychology. Psychopathic inventories and classification systems are often applied to forensic populations to assess future dangerousness and propensity to recidivate, among other things. Almost all psychopaths can be diagnosed with ASPD. Many individuals with ASPD cannot be classified as psychopaths.
IMO ASPD is a rather flat category based upon conduct and behavior, whereas psychopathy contemplates behavioral, motivational and emotional traits. When I say psychopath, I don't mean ASPD. I mean ASPD-plus.
Diane Downs was diagnosed as having HPD, NPD and ASPD. She was also classified as a psychopath.

Downs had a dead-on shrink! :)
 
What is the advantage of making pronouncements that continually paint the family in a bad light rather than searching for an understanding? I certainly hope more information is forthcoming at the trial.

At this point the persecution has been so relentless that it's becoming a wash. Casey may go free solely on her inability to receive a fair trial.

Understanding can come after justice has been served. A little girl is dead. Once the killer is sentenced, she can have therapy for as long as it takes.

Though many shrinks say that you can give a sociopath therapy all day, every day for 20 years, and there will be no change. They just morph into the perfect patient. If KC is given a life sentence, she will become the perfect inmate, and will manipulate herself into a position of some influence.

No one completely understands the causes of sociopathy (which is the descriptive term that most therapists seem to prefer to use). Most seem to think it's a mix of background and genetics. This because plenty of people grow up in horrible families, and end up happy and productive, anyway. And, "bad seeds" also come out of loving and healthy families.

And, at this point, the causes may not matter as much as whether there can or cannot be positive change.
 
Understanding can come after justice has been served. A little girl is dead. Once the killer is sentenced, she can have therapy for as long as it takes.

Though many shrinks say that you can give a sociopath therapy all day, every day for 20 years, and there will be no change. They just morph into the perfect patient. If KC is given a life sentence, she will become the perfect inmate, and will manipulate herself into a position of some influence.

No one completely understands the causes of sociopathy (which is the descriptive term that most therapists seem to prefer to use). Most seem to think it's a mix of background and genetics. This because plenty of people grow up in horrible families, and end up happy and productive, anyway. And, "bad seeds" also come out of loving and healthy families.

And, at this point, the causes may not matter as much as whether there can or cannot be positive change.

Thanks, this is along the lines of what I was looking for, or that was hoping you had in mind. It does help to bring some understanding for me, whereas others may have understood all along.
 
These 2 new reports from profilers just came out on Friday (Dec 12). They're brief, but interesting:

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown Discusses the Casey Anthony Case

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/12/criminal-prof-2.html

Investigation Discovery contacted top criminal profiler Pat Brown today and asked her to share her thoughts on how yesterday's discovery of child skeletal remains will affect Casey Anthony's cooperation in the case, if those remains are identified as that of Anthony's missing two-year-old daughter, Caylee.


Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin Weighs in on Casey Anthony

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/12/dr-deborah-schu.html

Criminal profiler Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin has offered her own opinion on what might happen next.
 
Thanks, this is along the lines of what I was looking for, or that was hoping you had in mind. It does help to bring some understanding for me, whereas others may have understood all along.

It's just a horrible, and very common problem, Elfie. The first shrink who finds the answer will be the RICHEST shrink. :blowkiss::)
 
These 2 new reports from profilers just came out on Friday (Dec 12). They're brief, but interesting:

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown Discusses the Casey Anthony Case

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/12/criminal-prof-2.html

Investigation Discovery contacted top criminal profiler Pat Brown today and asked her to share her thoughts on how yesterday's discovery of child skeletal remains will affect Casey Anthony's cooperation in the case, if those remains are identified as that of Anthony's missing two-year-old daughter, Caylee.


Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin Weighs in on Casey Anthony

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/12/dr-deborah-schu.html

Criminal profiler Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin has offered her own opinion on what might happen next.

These are GREAT! Thanks!:blowkiss:
 
It's just a horrible, and very common problem, Elfie. The first shrink who finds the answer will be the RICHEST shrink. :blowkiss::)

And the world will be richer for it. :)
 
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