Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[OneLostGrl]

Those were my observations as well. And to think that just a few days later, the monster was back in her house.

uh huh!! Sure says a lot about what kind of message they continue to choose to send their daughter even NOW that Cindy right before our very eyes appears to have realized just what her daughter is!

 

[shadow of my mind]

...and the people you meet along the way.
I've had considerable loss in my life, but find comfort in knowing that all my loved ones are still very much a part of my life because of how they touched me while here on earth.

The memories that we hold of those who have at one time been part of our life, if good give us the strenght to make it throught another day and those, when bad give us a reason to try to make our own life better.

Being able to get to the point that you can now feel comfort instead of overwhelming grief says alot about your innerself. So many squander those memories on selfpity.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Watching the newly released video of an emotionally fragile Casey I can only wonder what might have happened had she not been bonded out shortly after that last visit with her parents. Would her anger and frustration intensified or decreased?

As long as mommy and daddy did what she instructed, played by HER rules, I believe her anger would have faded.

 

[gitana1]

They are dysfunctional not mentally handicapped or void of understanding right from wrong or having common sense! Cindy certainly attended and graduated college just fine- held a job just fine.. she also has no police record from her supposed inability to control her actions. Their dysfunction only negativly effected their parenting abilities? Naw, sorry but such dysfunction does not work that way. Every relationship they formed (including employers, c0-workers, friends, lovers) would have been as "misguided" and troublesome if that were the case.

So I'm sorry, I disagree.. they very well DO have the ability to know what they were doing wrong... They knew enough to hide and lie to "outsiders" about not only their own behaviors but Casey's as well.

Understanding right from wrong does not translate to knowing how to be good parents or having common sense when it comes to their loved ones. This is a dysfunctional family. They do not know how to function as a family or relate to one another in a healthy way. That includes in their parenting. They see things in an impaired way. For example, if you told them about a situation with another family similar to the one they are in now, before casey killed Caylee, they would say:"My God, how horrible!" And have tons of things to say about how the family should have parented differently. They would never see themselves in that family. They see themselves as normal, functioning and healthy.
By the way, I know a few people with personality disorders and/or dysfunctional families that present a pretty good front to the public. It is quite possible to be a delusional mess about how wonderful one's hideous child is and how great they are parenting that child, and at the same time function normally at work or when dealing with others with whom they lack a close, family tie.
But, most people with personality disorders and families as dysfucntional as I think the Anthonys are, cannot keep it together well in general. And I acutally do not think that Anthonys have kept it together. I don't think they function well at all in life in general. Evidence to support that?: 1. GA and CA do not appear to have any real friends. 2. GA does not have a job. 3. It appears there have been marital problems, talk of divorce, gambling issues, etc., in that family. 4. It appears there may be a history of family estrangements in that family (Uncle Rick who disowned his son, possibly for good cause).
We do not know how CA is thought of at work. She may be thought of as a real nut. But, as I stated above, she could be impaired emotionally in her personal life and still hold it together professionally. The two do not always relate.
For example, I know a few nutty nurses who are capable of hiding who they are at work. One I know was a mother, the opposing side in a case I litigated, who abandoned her 9 year old son at her new boyfriend's house (she had been seeing the man for 3 months). She told the man to take the boy to a baseball game but did not return later that night as planned. She then showed up around midnight, where she confronted her frantic and crying child and worried boyfriend with a bag of the child's clothes, threw them at the boy and as he wailed, told him: "I don't want you anymore!" She told the man: "You keep him." The man eventually tracked down my client, the father, who had weekend visitation at that time. After over a year of litigation, including emergency hearings, psych evals, etc., it was discovered that the mom was an alcoholic with bi-polar disorder on Depakote. She kept fighting for her kid, all the while torturing him with bizarre ploys to make him hysterical so she could tape him and show how sad he was at Dad's house, until finally she told the Court to f%&* off, that she would no longer participate in evals or attend hearings and she lost custody. Dad has had the child for several years now and the mother simply stopped calling. Her younger son from a different marriage went into the system. But she always kept her job as a nurse at a very well-known hospital. No one there knew anything about her "problems". She is one example I have of several. So, I disagree that the Anthonys cannot be so impaired in their relationships and parenting that they do not know how to raise their kids properly, if they work, etc.
Finally, even if they knew exactly what they were doing by spoiling and enabling casey in the way they did, you did not address my other points that despite this, it would be a stretch to say that they could or should have predicted that casey would actually kill Caylee. Again, no one saw actual neglect, abuse, etc. They were just two grandparents who were tired of their errant, lying daughter leaving them the bulk of the responsibility for Caylee and did not quite know what to do about it.
P.S., It appears CA did acutally belatedly try, if what many of us feel happened on June 15 actually happened. Too little, too late. But the sad thing is that this confrontation may have been the catalyst for casey's eventual murder of her precious daughter.
The Anthonys screwed up but I still maintain that they never could have known how bad until now and that their delusions continue to prevent them from seeing what everyone else does.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Understanding right from wrong does not translate to knowing how to be good parents or having common sense when it comes to their loved ones. This is a dysfunctional family. They do not know how to function as a family or relate to one another in a healthy way. That includes in their parenting. They see things in an impaired way. For example, if you told them about a situation with another family similar to the one they are in now, before casey killed Caylee, they would say:"My God, how horrible!" And have tons of things to say about how the family should have parented differently. They would never see themselves in that family. They see themselves as normal, functioning and healthy.
By the way, I know a few people with personality disorders and/or dysfunctional families that present a pretty good front to the public. It is quite possible to be a delusional mess about how wonderful one's hideous child is and how great they are parenting that child, and at the same time function normally at work or when dealing with others with whom they lack a close, family tie.
But, most people with personality disorders and families as dysfucntional as I think the Anthonys are, cannot keep it together well in general. And I acutally do not think that Anthonys have kept it together. I don't think they function well at all in life in general. Evidence to support that?: 1. GA and CA do not appear to have any real friends. 2. GA does not have a job. 3. It appears there have been marital problems, talk of divorce, gambling issues, etc., in that family. 4. It appears there may be a history of family estrangements in that family (Uncle Rick who disowned his son, possibly for good cause).
We do not know how CA is thought of at work. She may be thought of as a real nut. But, as I stated above, she could be impaired emotionally in her personal life and still hold it together professionally. The two do not always relate.
For example, I know a few nutty nurses who are capable of hiding who they are at work. One I know was a mother, the opposing side in a case I litigated, who abandoned her 9 year old son at her new boyfriend's house (she had been seeing the man for 3 months). She told the man to take the boy to a baseball game but did not return later that night as planned. She then showed up around midnight, where she confronted her frantic and crying child and worried boyfriend with a bag of the child's clothes, threw them at the boy and as he wailed, told him: "I don't want you anymore!" She told the man: "You keep him." The man eventually tracked down my client, the father, who had weekend visitation at that time. After over a year of litigation, including emergency hearings, psych evals, etc., it was discovered that the mom was an alcoholic with bi-polar disorder on Depakote. She kept fighting for her kid, all the while torturing him with bizarre ploys to make him hysterical so she could tape him and show how sad he was at Dad's house, until finally she told the Court to f%&* off, that she would no longer participate in evals or attend hearings and she lost custody. Dad has had the child for several years now and the mother simply stopped calling. Her younger son from a different marriage went into the system. But she always kept her job as a nurse at a very well-known hospital. No one there knew anything about her "problems". She is one example I have of several. So, I disagree that the Anthonys cannot be so impaired in their relationships and parenting that they do not know how to raise their kids properly, if they work, etc.
Finally, even if they knew exactly what they were doing by spoiling and enabling casey in the way they did, you did not address my other points that despite this, it would be a stretch to say that they could or should have predicted that casey would actually kill Caylee. Again, no one saw actual neglect, abuse, etc. They were just two grandparents who were tired of their errant, lying daughter leaving them the bulk of the responsibility for Caylee and did not quite know what to do about it.
P.S., It appears CA did acutally belatedly try, if what many of us feel happened on June 15 actually happened. Too little, too late. But the sad thing is that this confrontation may have been the catalyst for casey's eventual murder of her precious daughter.
The Anthonys screwed up but I still maintain that they never could have known how bad until now and that their delusions continue to prevent them from seeing what everyone else does.

I didn't address your point that they could not know that Casey would kill her daughter because I have always held the same belief and have said so time and again (goodness, tonight alone I have posted at LEAST 2 times that I do not feel they are responsible for Casey's killing her daughter) I didn't realize I was supposed to say it again to you specificly.. I figured I have made my opinion on that part quite clear.

ETA. Didn't you agree with all of the posters that "saw" in that video Cindy's realizing what her daughter truly is? It seems to me she sees and accepted plenty... right there on that video!

 

[mitzi]

There are different types and degrees of dysfunction. Obviously you were somewhat lucky- you had another parent and that other parent cared. You had family, outsiders who cared and obviously stepped up. Most are not so lucky.

The nature of what I see in Cindy, and what my own mother is like, you absolutely do suffer- you have no choice because you are belittled and ignored and neglected emotionally, you are taught you cannot BE anything good, ever. You are always, always, even when they are in a loving mood, not good enough or smart enough or pretty enough. Nothing you choose to do (without their stepping in and controling the situation) is good or just.

Your emotions never matter, nobody cares how you feel or what you want.. it's all about the disordered parent, always! And sometimes out of the blue, because they are having issues, you don't have to do anything to provoke it and suddenly you are hated. If in that moment they decide you are "just like" their spouse or their boss or whoever- watch it! We are there to serve their needs, their "drug of choice", their supply. They need us and the way they treat us in order to feel anything good about themselves. And they do it all with a "smile" on their face to appear normal and loving to outsiders.

WOW, OLG, you really have your finger on the pulse! I so admire you for the hard journey you have had to get to where you are. I read your posts and truly see exactly what you state. I sure hope you are in a line of work where you can use your life skills and knowledge to help others. I know so much more because of you and several others on this forum. Just wanted to say thank you for explaining things so clearly to those of us who haven't walked in your shoes. :blowkiss:

 

[mitzi]

Watching the video, my observations of Cindy were, especially when she has her hands to her mouth, she is thinking, "OMG, she really IS, what I have said & thought, & never wanted to believe" She keeps watching KC, listening to what she is saying, & the look on her face is as though she is seeing the Monster for the first time......horror:furious:......acceptance of the rumours & that Caylee is gone! She recovers briefly, & then, hands to the face, again she sees her, and it appears too much for her to handle. She has to look away, gets up & walks away.... the reality is too much to bear!

Just my observations, but I could actually feel what she was thinking!

ITA and also there are times when Cindy puts her fingers of one hand to her mouth or touches her mouth, where it feels to me like she "sees the monster", and can almost vomit, and her fingers are trying to keep it in.

 

[kiki the parrot]

The recipe for delinquency in teenagers starts when they are toddlers unless there is some type of major event or upheaval in the home that causes a boatload of stress and is not handled as its needs to be at a later stage. Now add any kind of mental disorder, either with one or both of the parents or the child, learned behavior from dysfunction upbringing of the adults now add any addictions, abuse or neglect to the mix and you have the makings of a monster.

The Anthony’s are people who will be sited in case studies for years to come. Hopefully some people will see the errors of their ways with how they handle their own children and will seek out help. Maybe that will be one positive thing that may come out of this tragic and sad death of Caylee

For me, I just had to make sure I did nothing that my adoptive parents did and that pretty well assured me my son would have a better parent. LOL
Well, it took a promise I made to myself one long dark cold night I would never ever do or be like them. With a lot of tears and hard work, plain old teeth gritting determination things turned out not to bad.

(respectfully snipped) ITA w above, esp bolded!!!

I don't want to break your heart, my bird friend! :blowkiss:

I want people to realize the damage they cause their children, I want people to think before they choose to skip over teaching their children right from wrong, or not holding them accountable simply because the childs reaction may cause havoc in the household. I want people to know that Casey's behaviors began as a way to cope in that household.. They continued and worsened because her parents, the people who were supposed to be in charge- obviously never, ever were in charge

(respectfully snipped) Agree 100% w above, you're preaching to the choir lol.

 

[Brini]

Bold is mine-

ITA- they became a "team" in respect to disliking George.

In every disordered home, there is an "outcast." LA was the "good child," I think. he prolly also tried to peacemake between the two harridans.

 

[kiki the parrot]

I agree with you. And, I do not think GA and CA were wonderful, loving parents. Over and over again I have said they appear very dysfunctional - CA with a personality disorder, likely BPD, and GA the typical, ineffectual and whipped husband who is often attracted to a woman like that. For sure, they created a monster. But to me, they are not to blame for what happened because they had and have no clue that they did anything wrong in the raising and enabling of their kid, they lacked the ability to raise her differently, they had no clarity as to the true nature of how deeply distrubed casey is and no one that knew casey could have predicted she would acutally kill her child, even her own family. Eevn if they knew how disturbed she is, there are tons of sociopaths, narcissists and spoiled enraged tryants in the world, but the majority do not kill.
Bottom line, how can we expect people as impaired as the Anthonys to know what to do? It's a vicious cycle: They created her because they are dysfunctional and they cannot realize what they have created and how to resolve it for the very same reason.
Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do.

(bold mine)
I fully understand the importance of forgiveness. I have had to forgive the many painful, costly mistakes and poor parenting of my own childhood (no one simply handed me down an ounce of wisdom I assure you, and am fortunate to have survived--my brother sadly was not so fortunate). And to forgive myself for my own from which my children undoubtedly suffer. I just don't want to lose sight however that any who choose to have children need to assume responsibility for actually raising them by acquiring the necessary skills, and being prepared to make the necessary sacrifices. As we can see in the more extreme cases including the eg at hand, "innocent" blind stumbling by "inept" parents can have really grievous consequences. And to any parents w a similarly cavalier approach to parenting and rearing children to be accountable, truthful and responsible; or equally casual response to red flags, I would caution them they're just gambling the odds, w very high risk stakes, that the perfect storm conditions will not also occur in their own or their childrens' lives.

I say this because as we all know, and as w most everything, it inevitably boils down to personal responsibility and choices. Each parent is faced ultimately w a choice, as others here illustrate so well, of either searching his or her own past and determining whether those ways have worked; and wherever their own existing parenting methods fail, to exercise the option at any time of examining their heart, reconsidering their values, reordering their priorities, restrategizing, seeking out new skills, tools--and intervention if necessary. Or there is the option of excusing, looking the other way, ignoring the warning signs, scapegoating, shifting blame or perpetuating the patterns. Sadly this can be rather easily accomplished by the most "well intentioned" of parents--who before they will recognize or admit any fault, look inwardly or in the mirror to do any self-evaluation, choose to blame and heap pain by sacrificing others for self in a lifelong strategy of self-preservation. That strategy may include opting eg to appear righteous rather than become righthearted. And is largely determined by one's beliefs, values and priorities.

Generational cycles can be broken--at any time, by any who choose instead to do an honest self-analysis, adopt healthier patterns, to make the sacrifices (as Shadow reminds us), better choices (as One demonstrates so well), and by sowing healthier seeds in the lives of their own children (as I am constantly endeavoring). As One, Shadow and others like them are continually demonstrating, it invariably falls upon every parent to scrutinize the errors and harmful practices of previous generations--and recognize in which ways they can improve or raise their children differently.

There's another proverb that warns, 'He who covers his transgressions won't prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.' What I see in this particular family is an awful lot of covering up--and without a doubt, a really poor working definition of love, in deadly motion. Once again, every parent who loves their child disciplines them. And where our own consistent discipline or appropriate boundaries fail, then we need to have the compassion and humility to seek outside counsel or intervention. I'm unaware to date of any attempts by the A's to impose any consequences or anything more than idle threats for KC's unruly, irresponsible, reckless behavior nor any reports of seeking outside help (which would expose laundry or skeletons w/in family), nor bring her under authority. Instead, even as this pattern culminates in tragedy, we see CA failing to follow thru and still insisting as usual on "handling" it as she always has... by scurrying to wash the dirty laundry, denying any problem ("There was an old pizza rotting in that bag, you know how hot it's been!") and perpetuating her daughter's victimhood. Hopefully some of us w children can learn from these grievous egs of parenting mistakes, and not have to make them all ourselves! JMHUO

 

[shivs]

These are all such good posts today. I so wish I could not relate, but I can.

There is not a 'smilie' to express my feelings right now.

 

[kiki the parrot]

And she did throw it in her mother's face because her mother wasn't behaving like she wanted her to. I felt for Cindy, but IMO she's heard it all before. I think there was a vicious cycle of abuse going on in that home.

ITA As KC's outrageous behavior and attitude went unchecked, and CA/GA chose to tiptoe around her and handle w kid gloves, the more abusive and out of control she became.

...and the people you meet along the way.
I've had considerable loss in my life, but find comfort in knowing that all my loved ones are still very much a part of my life because of how they touched me while here on earth.

This touched my heart. I've had tremendous losses in my life too, but 'count them all joy' for the priceless wisdom I've gained, and loved ones who've endured, along the way...

The memories that we hold of those who have at one time been part of our life, if good give us the strenght to make it throught another day and those, when bad give us a reason to try to make our own life better.

Being able to get to the point that you can now feel comfort instead of overwhelming grief says alot about your innerself. So many squander those memories on selfpity.

I have memory disorder (due to CNS lupus) and among the most painful of losses is the loss of many memories. Very remote long term memories are intact, but past five years (of brain inflammation, seizures etc), not so much... Makes it tough to "build" a life or foundation, but I do not forget principles (ie of wisdom), and love what someone once said (I forget who lolol), "I may not always remember people's words, but I remember how they made me feel." So true. Besides, some things are better forgotten, one can't hold onto grudges lol. Or as my mom (gotta love her) is fond of saying, I can own just one DVD in my collection--and hide my own Easter eggs. God bless her. And God bless you.

These are all such good posts today. I so wish I could not relate, but I can.

There is not a 'smilie' to express my feelings right now.

Me either. So let's try this...

:grouphug:

 

[Mysticj]

I agree. I'll also add that I believe Cindy also keeps him around for someone to abuse (be-little, step on, make fun of, keep money from etc) as now her kids are grown and seem to no longer allow it. Though I think Lee may have tried to stop it in regard to himself by moving out, Casey certainly seems to have found a no fail way to put a stop to her own abuse by murdering Caylee.

I also think a lot of Casey's reasoning behind choosing George as the one she wanted the alone-time meeting with was her way of telling her mother just that- "you do not control me anymore- I will decide who I speak with and it aint gonna be you!" She knew it would hurt her mother if she chose George because it was always them against him.

Agree with almost all. Exception George - She chose George because he was being truethful and she needed to rake him in and what better way than It is you I want.His face when she said that said it all.He was elated and it sealed the deal...He started lying too.....

 

[gitana1]

(bold mine)
I fully understand the importance of forgiveness. I have had to forgive the many painful, costly mistakes and poor parenting of my own childhood (no one simply handed me down an ounce of wisdom I assure you, and am fortunate to have survived--my brother sadly was not so fortunate). And to forgive myself for my own from which my children undoubtedly suffer. I just don't want to lose sight however that any who choose to have children need to assume responsibility for actually raising them by acquiring the necessary skills, and being prepared to make the necessary sacrifices. As we can see in the more extreme cases including the eg at hand, "innocent" blind stumbling by "inept" parents can have really grievous consequences. And to any parents w a similarly cavalier approach to parenting and rearing children to be accountable, truthful and responsible; or equally casual response to red flags, I would caution them they're just gambling the odds, w very high risk stakes, that the perfect storm conditions will not also occur in their own or their childrens' lives.

I say this because as we all know, and as w most everything, it inevitably boils down to personal responsibility and choices. Each parent is faced ultimately w a choice, as others here illustrate so well, of either searching his or her own past and determining whether those ways have worked; and wherever their own existing parenting methods fail, to exercise the option at any time of examining their heart, reconsidering their values, reordering their priorities, restrategizing, seeking out new skills, tools--and intervention if necessary. Or there is the option of excusing, looking the other way, ignoring the warning signs, scapegoating, shifting blame or perpetuating the patterns. Sadly this can be rather easily accomplished by the most "well intentioned" of parents--who before they will recognize or admit any fault, look inwardly or in the mirror to do any self-evaluation, choose to blame and heap pain by sacrificing others for self in a lifelong strategy of self-preservation. That strategy may include opting eg to appear righteous rather than become righthearted. And is largely determined by one's beliefs, values and priorities.

Generational cycles can be broken--at any time, by any who choose instead to do an honest self-analysis, adopt healthier patterns, to make the sacrifices (as Shadow reminds us), better choices (as One demonstrates so well), and by sowing healthier seeds in the lives of their own children (as I am constantly endeavoring). As One, Shadow and others like them are continually demonstrating, it invariably falls upon every parent to scrutinize the errors and harmful practices of previous generations--and recognize in which ways they can improve or raise their children differently.

There's another proverb that warns, 'He who covers his transgressions won't prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.' What I see in this particular family is an awful lot of covering up--and without a doubt, a really poor working definition of love, in deadly motion. Once again, every parent who loves their child disciplines them. And where our own consistent discipline or appropriate boundaries fail, then we need to have the compassion and humility to seek outside counsel or intervention. I'm unaware to date of any attempts by the A's to impose any consequences or anything more than idle threats for KC's unruly, irresponsible, reckless behavior nor any reports of seeking outside help (which would expose laundry or skeletons w/in family), nor bring her under authority. Instead, even as this pattern culminates in tragedy, we see CA failing to follow thru and still insisting as usual on "handling" it as she always has... by scurrying to wash the dirty laundry, denying any problem ("There was an old pizza rotting in that bag, you know how hot it's been!") and perpetuating her daughter's victimhood. Hopefully some of us w children can learn from these grievous egs of parenting mistakes, and not have to make them all ourselves! JMHUO

I totally hear ya' and I agree. The problem is, however, that it is normally only rational and mature people who conduct the kind of self-analysis necessary to good parenting, BEFORE they decide to have a child. It is the people with serious problems who have no understanding of self-analysis, of normal logic or who can even see how screwed up they actually are, who pop em' out with no foresight as to whether it is a good decision or not. That's why our foster care systems are so clogged. Society is asking people to make better decisions for themselves and their children, or potential children, while knowing that many of those people have no ability or skills to do so. So, what's the answer?

 

[kageykaren]

We don't have any info. from school records that shows KC may have had some brief therapy. The talking heads on NG after seeing the latest jail video agreed with each other that the communication going on between kC and her parents seem to show that they may have all 3 been in counseling by the vocabulary they were using. Some of the words and behavior between the 3 seemed like they were familiar with having had these types of conversations in the past.

 

[gitana1]

I didn't address your point that they could not know that Casey would kill her daughter because I have always held the same belief and have said so time and again (goodness, tonight alone I have posted at LEAST 2 times that I do not feel they are responsible for Casey's killing her daughter) I didn't realize I was supposed to say it again to you specificly.. I figured I have made my opinion on that part quite clear.

ETA. Didn't you agree with all of the posters that "saw" in that video Cindy's realizing what her daughter truly is? It seems to me she sees and accepted plenty... right there on that video!

Yes, but the quote of your that I posted about seems to say that the Anthonys ARE to be blamed in a way because of their poor parenting, because they do know right from wrong. While I agree that they created her, I don't think ther is much they could have done to prevent that because of their dysfunction and the resultant lack of clarity and understanding that they have. They should have done differently but they could not because they don't know that they should have done differently and would certainly not have then.
Also, I do agree with certain posters who saw that CA realized who her daughter truly is. I think this family has lots of those moments, but those moments are then immediately squelched by their inability to know how to deal with such a realization. The horror is too great and they lack the skills to know how to deal with that horror. Thus, the utter delusion sets in, over and over again evidenced by their illogical support of their daughter. I just have a view of how things look from their eyes. Bizarre, tragic and ultimately hopeless.

 

[kiki the parrot]

I totally hear ya' and I agree. The problem is, however, that it is normally only rational and mature people who conduct the kind of self-analysis necessary to good parenting, BEFORE they decide to have a child. It is the people with serious problems who have no understanding of self-analysis, of normal logic or who can even see how screwed up they actually are, who pop em' out with no foresight as to whether it is a good decision or not. That's why our foster care systems are so clogged. Society is asking people to make better decisions for themselves and their children, or potential children, while knowing that many of those people have no ability or skills to do so. So, what's the answer?

raying:

Yes, but the quote of your that I posted about seems to say that the Anthonys ARE to be blamed in a way because of their poor parenting, because they do know right from wrong. While I agree that they created her, I don't think ther is much they could have done to prevent that because of their dysfunction and the resultant lack of clarity and understanding that they have. They should have done differently but they could not because they don't know that they should have done differently and would certainly not have then. Also, I do agree with certain posters who saw that CA realized who her daughter truly is. I think this family has lots of those moments, but those moments are then immediately squelched by their inability to know how to deal with such a realization. The horror is too great and they lack the skills to know how to deal with that horror. Thus, the utter delusion sets in, over and over again evidenced by their illogical support of their daughter. I just have a view of how things look from their eyes. Bizarre, tragic and ultimately hopeless.

But the question is WHY they "don't know." Nobody knows... until they care enough to figure it out. Quite honestly so much of the "ignorance" or lack of understanding by parents can arguably be attributed, or boiled down to simple laziness, complacency, and/or pride. We all have lightbulb 'moments' as parents, but some of us choose to intervene and do something--and others simply look the other way. Our children all reach an age when as teens they begin "hating," and some of us endure the hating--while others prefer to be their kid's friend instead of act like their parent. We've all had the opportunity to see our children thru someone else's (a teacher's, a principal's, a neighbor's) eyes, and some of us are willing to hear, and appreciate, those insights--while others react defensively and make it all about them. We all have a chance as parents to admit, hopefully to ourselves if no one else, that what we've been doing is not working and wake up before it's too late--as others go on stubbornly clinging to denials and excuses. Where there is deception there is continual conflict. Yet the A's avoided doing anything about it, never once holding KC accountable even after her lying became compulsive and her stealing victimized everyone in their entire family--and beyond. Prior to this tragedy I guess from my perspective, as a 49 year-old single parent of 4 children (the youngest 6), w a chronic illness, no spouse, nor even my earning ability now, CA's situation w her health and at least another parent--w whom to find strength in agreement--was enviable. IMO unselfish parents w compassion and humility get over their own shock or trauma and respond promptly and swiftly to small warning signs early on--while others it seems simply shake their heads years later after everything has imploded and wonder, "Where did we go wrong...?" (Or in GA's own famous words,"Maybe we shouldn't have been so domineering..." Yep, that's it GA... you've got it all figured out... sigh) JMO

:waitasec:

 

[OneLostGrl]

In every disordered home, there is an "outcast." LA was the "good child," I think. he prolly also tried to peacemake between the two harridans.

No kidding. he was called to the house that night by poor George.. he went into to Casey's bedroom to talk to her and sent Cindy outside.. he said Casey wouldn't respond to Cindy anything but defensivly and angrily. Lee was SOO the peacekeeper, I agree, girl! Momma's boy- unless he wasn't. unless he couldn't fix things fast enough or good enough (you know what I mean?!)

I feel very bad for Lee- and now he is back home.

 

[evergreen]

I agree. I'll also add that I believe Cindy also keeps him around for someone to abuse (be-little, step on, make fun of, keep money from etc) as now her kids are grown and seem to no longer allow it. Though I think Lee may have tried to stop it in regard to himself by moving out, Casey certainly seems to have found a no fail way to put a stop to her own abuse by murdering Caylee.

I also think a lot of Casey's reasoning behind choosing George as the one she wanted the alone-time meeting with was her way of telling her mother just that- "you do not control me anymore- I will decide who I speak with and it aint gonna be you!" She knew it would hurt her mother if she chose George because it was always them against him.

I think she chose George because he is a soft touch and non confrontational. He also showers her with Supply, the kind she likes. It was just an easier path for her to take. I do see the power struggle between her and Mom and the enmeshment is so easy to spot.

 

[OneLostGrl]

(bold mine)
I fully understand the importance of forgiveness. I have had to forgive the many painful, costly mistakes and poor parenting of my own childhood (no one simply handed me down an ounce of wisdom I assure you, and am fortunate to have survived--my brother sadly was not so fortunate). And to forgive myself for my own from which my children undoubtedly suffer. I just don't want to lose sight however that any who choose to have children need to assume responsibility for actually raising them by acquiring the necessary skills, and being prepared to make the necessary sacrifices. As we can see in the more extreme cases including the eg at hand, "innocent" blind stumbling by "inept" parents can have really grievous consequences. And to any parents w a similarly cavalier approach to parenting and rearing children to be accountable, truthful and responsible; or equally casual response to red flags, I would caution them they're just gambling the odds, w very high risk stakes, that the perfect storm conditions will not also occur in their own or their childrens' lives.

I say this because as we all know, and as w most everything, it inevitably boils down to personal responsibility and choices. Each parent is faced ultimately w a choice, as others here illustrate so well, of either searching his or her own past and determining whether those ways have worked; and wherever their own existing parenting methods fail, to exercise the option at any time of examining their heart, reconsidering their values, reordering their priorities, restrategizing, seeking out new skills, tools--and intervention if necessary. Or there is the option of excusing, looking the other way, ignoring the warning signs, scapegoating, shifting blame or perpetuating the patterns. Sadly this can be rather easily accomplished by the most "well intentioned" of parents--who before they will recognize or admit any fault, look inwardly or in the mirror to do any self-evaluation, choose to blame and heap pain by sacrificing others for self in a lifelong strategy of self-preservation. That strategy may include opting eg to appear righteous rather than become righthearted. And is largely determined by one's beliefs, values and priorities.

Generational cycles can be broken--at any time, by any who choose instead to do an honest self-analysis, adopt healthier patterns, to make the sacrifices (as Shadow reminds us), better choices (as One demonstrates so well), and by sowing healthier seeds in the lives of their own children (as I am constantly endeavoring). As One, Shadow and others like them are continually demonstrating, it invariably falls upon every parent to scrutinize the errors and harmful practices of previous generations--and recognize in which ways they can improve or raise their children differently.

There's another proverb that warns, 'He who covers his transgressions won't prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.' What I see in this particular family is an awful lot of covering up--and without a doubt, a really poor working definition of love, in deadly motion. Once again, every parent who loves their child disciplines them. And where our own consistent discipline or appropriate boundaries fail, then we need to have the compassion and humility to seek outside counsel or intervention. I'm unaware to date of any attempts by the A's to impose any consequences or anything more than idle threats for KC's unruly, irresponsible, reckless behavior nor any reports of seeking outside help (which would expose laundry or skeletons w/in family), nor bring her under authority. Instead, even as this pattern culminates in tragedy, we see CA failing to follow thru and still insisting as usual on "handling" it as she always has... by scurrying to wash the dirty laundry, denying any problem ("There was an old pizza rotting in that bag, you know how hot it's been!") and perpetuating her daughter's victimhood. Hopefully some of us w children can learn from these grievous egs of parenting mistakes, and not have to make them all ourselves! JMHUO

G0d, I f'ing heart you!! You are like the "educated" me I always wanted to be! :blowkiss: LOL

That's why I share- so others can learn. Certainly not because I'm proud! LOL