Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[Brini]

The attention to the many disorders some people must learn to deal with, has been so beneficial to educating the people who read here. Knowledge is power. Just to read peoples experiences with seizure disorder, grief, personality disorders, ect... educate the masses & takes ignorance and fear away. Trust me, even ignorance is shown by eduated people as well. My sons first nuerologist assigned to him after his 6 complex partial seizure going into tonic clonic told my son and I that in his country people fish flop on the ground and think they are having a religous experiance and all it is, is a brain malfunction. This doctor spoke so flippantly so I was left to putting this doctor in his place. These discussions are one of the best blessings that have come out of this tragedy.

:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

Hmmm...I'm guessing, an enabler will continue as long as there is personal gain (power, position, love, money; whatever the particular enabler placed in high value)

I think the relationship between KC and CA was more complicated than that. KC was the controlling force in her family, she knew it and CA knew it. CA didn't so much enable KC, as CA had no idea how to deal with KC. Exchanging control for peace in the household (or at least the appearance of peace) was CA giving up, more then giving in.

This doesn't work, will never work, when dealing with a KC. She will continue to wreck havoc, until there is nothing left. CA had finally realized she was out of her league when she went to the counselor who advised kicking KC to the curb and taking custody of Caylee.

I don't remember hearing when CA started seeing the therapist but I'll bet the timing is important. It wouldn't surprise me if therapy started around March. Changing CA was not something that happened in 1 visit. Just like everything else, it was a process.

CA taking charge and taking custody was the last straw, Caylee was getting the love that belonged to her and KC wasn't standing for that any longer. It was bad enough Caylee took so much time and effort away from KC's real interests, she was not allowing Caylee to have her position in the family as the reigning princess too. The only way for KC to insure her place in the family was to dispose of Caylee.

Think about some of the families you knew when you were growing up, there's always someone who will stand out as having the perfectly kept yard, the perfect pet, the perfectly (over kept) children who never appeared to get dirty, hair always in place, nails manicured, shoes shined. These households were run by a CA. How many of these families ever "lost" a child or grandchild the way KC "lost" Caylee?

To blame CA's personality type for KC's evil doing absolves KC of responsibility.

Tru dat!

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Well if JB does go with the "Epileptic Incapacitation" claim he goes where other's have gone before...and failed. It appears that in order for him to present a "EI" argument, the defense must enter an insanity plea. I've included a link to a case (Florida 1991) in which the defense, on appeal, claims "EI" - interesting read.

http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/78141/78141merits2.pdf

I don't see that ever happening. Not for Casey Anthony. The man you are talking about was not only epileptic, but also was brain damaged and mentally retarded. Again, they can enter an insanity defense, however, I don't see that happening because she was aware of all she was doing for the 31 days following. She's not insane. Nor could temporary insanity work because I don't believe JB is going to go with anything except a "not guilty -someone else did it" defense. It would take a LOT to convince a jury that she had temporary insanity. I just don't see that happening.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I'm not sure about not being allowed to drive. I go in for an MRI tomorrow and an EEG on Tuesday because I have had episodes of "lost time." I asked my nuerologist if I needed to stop driving until he figured out what was wrong and he said I could drive around the city, but not to drive on the highway. However, I refuse to drive until they find out what is wrong.

Personally? That is a silly answer for a neurologist to give you. You are correct. You should not be driving. Have they also checked you for diabetes?

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I am so sorry about your son, it is such a terrible disorder to live with. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your child.

I also agree with what you said above, and I was not trying to make any excuses for KC's behavior. Was only commenting that one does lose track of time to the poster who was talking about what KioMarie had said about KC not remembering things that happened the day before. If it was not drug induced memory loss, it could be that she does have a health problem on top of her psychosis. I do not know of anyone with the disorder who has done anything remotely like what KC has done. She is truely demented IMHO.

Thanks. We are very lucky. My son had status epileptus twice when he was 4 years old. That means he went into grand mal seizures and would not stop. They had to induce him to a brain coma to put his brain "to sleep" to save his life. He is one of the very lucky folks to have so many different seizure disorders and to have found the right combination of medications to control them. Thank heaven! He is also with a lot of short term memory due to the frontal lobe scars from so many seizures and he also has Aspergers, a form of autism, OCD and a few other things. He is handsome young man and has amazing "Dr. Doolittle" abilities

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I have re-read this thread several times and find the testimonials of posters with analogous family dynamics the most informative. I have also researched the internet about personality disorders and such. In this research, I have yet to find a convincing explanation of the underlying motives of the 'enabler' in a dysfunctional family. I am convinced as other are that CA was the main enabler and the often the motive posited it that she placed a high status on appearances. At what point or level would this motive be overcome or this there a alternative motive ?

It is most probably the reason Cindy is an enabler is because of her own lack of self esteem and her fear that her own child would "write her off" in her life. Her fears are somewhat justified as that is pretty much what Casey ended up doing. Cindy finally woke up and sought therapy and made it clear to Casey that she would take Caylee and raise her. She couldn't handle her lies anymore. Enablers are usually those who DO try and fix problems and in essence, due to their own low self esteem, cannot see that by letting one manipulate them to the point of "fear of losing them in their life" that they are in fact.........enablers.

It would be very difficult to write any child off that was like Casey........PRIOR to what happened to Caylee.....because as parents one wants to help their children and do whatever they can to get them help....and up to the point of the stolen money, Cindy probably did a lot of "justifying" and "reasoning". (ex: Well, she's never been arrested. She does have friends. She can be nice. Maybe it's hormones? Maybe she is having it tough raising a baby alone. etc.etc.) Once the stolen money came into the pic, I think is when Cindy realized a lot is out of control and hence she went to get herself therapy...perhaps to gain strength to do what she needed to do. Throw Casey out and take custody of Caylee. Unfortunately, tables turned. The minute Casey got wind........she took care of everything in the most horrid way possible.

Again, I can't blame Cindy too much here. She was a victim in this as well. I think her myspace letter that she purposely wrote was her way of trying to get Casey to "talk to her".

CINDY's MYSPACE LETTER:
Thursday, July 03, 2008
my caylee is missing
Current mood: distraught

She came into my life unexspectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don’t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother’s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?

 

[Marple]

CA taking charge and taking custody was the last straw, Caylee was getting the love that belonged to her and KC wasn't standing for that any longer. It was bad enough Caylee took so much time and effort away from KC's real interests, she was not allowing Caylee to have her position in the family as the reigning princess too. The only way for KC to insure her place in the family was to dispose of Caylee.

I agree with your post but I think also that KC felt threatened because if her mom got custody of Caylee, what did that mean for her (KC)? As long as she was Caylee's mother, she had some very effective leverage with the gp's.

KC's gravy train was coming to a screeching halt if she lost the ability to manipulate her mother and father with Caylee.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I don't see that ever happening. Not for Casey Anthony. The man you are talking about was not only epileptic, but also was brain damaged and mentally retarded. Again, they can enter an insanity defense, however, I don't see that happening because she was aware of all she was doing for the 31 days following. She's not insane. Nor could temporary insanity work because I don't believe JB is going to go with anything except a "not guilty -someone else did it" defense. It would take a LOT to convince a jury that she had temporary insanity. I just don't see that happening.

100% agreement - there was discussion & speculation(s) about KC possibly being epileptic, having gaps in time/memory...just thought I'd see what I could find on prior cases using/attempting to use EI, came across this and put put the link and like you mentioned this guy not only was epileptic, he had brain damage & MR and it still didn't fly.

 

[passionflower]

new family photo? death grip on LA leg from mom???? darn I can't get it to copy over!
I don't know if I am allowed to say it is on .......look!

 

[metalcrystal]

new family photo? death grip on LA leg from mom???? darn I can't get it to copy over!
I don't know if I am allowed to say it is on .......look!

Actually Passionflower, that is from the first National TV interview, GMA? And CA was STROKING his leg the whole time, and I remember thinking, how freakin' wierd that was! So glad you brought this up. That was one of the first things I thought was VERY odd about the A's.

 

[mitzi]

I agree. She enjoys seeing news clips about herself on tv, and enjoys the celebrity she feels 'she holds'. Yeah, she's a legend in her own mind! lol!

I wonder if she realizes she's infamous, as is Charlie Manson and Ted Bundy, and all those other 'fine folks'!

ITA sweetmop, and also I remember KC carrying the "media binder" with her to JB's during her long hours spent there during home confinement. She and CA both seem to enjoy the "limelight" and "rehashing" their media events, via the articles in their binders.

 

[LCoastMom]

ITA sweetmop, and also I remember KC carrying the "media binder" with her to JB's during her long hours spent there during home confinement. She and CA both seem to enjoy the "limelight" and "rehashing" their media events, via the articles in their binders.

Is it possible they were doing this with 2 different agendas? If my child or grandchild were missing I can see doing this as "See here's another avenue of getting the story out there." While KC is saying "I'm more famous than a rock star, see here I am again."

One thing I've learned by this, what I remember CA saying at the start. She would do anything to keep Caylee's picture out there. I would put in writing; "If you want my picture fine, I'll act like a monkey if you want, but if you're going to use my picture I want a picture twice the size of mine with my missing child." It's the only way I would agree to do anything.

I was looking for an old article recently and saw a lot of the old print stories the A's did. I am shocked at the way they were taken advantage of, they must have aligned themselves with every user out there. It's really too bad who they chose to go with and how they turned away or turned down all the people who could have gotten them through this with their dignity intact.

 

[indicat]

Her and her mother both- you cannot tell me Cindy didn't know Casey was pregnant, look at that wedding picture, OMG! LOL

Now this is something I will just never understand. You hear about it all the time, people who dont recognize a pregnancy and it just boggles my mind. Where I work we go across the street to a convienance store on break and get pretty friendly with the girls who work there. A slender girl of KC's build started getting bigger in the middle and we just assumed she was pregnant and asked her when she was due. She was kind of offended and said she just puts on weight in the middle and she was not pregnant. Well at first we felt dumb and thought oops...but as the months went on her stomache got bigger and bigger, but nothing else on her body did. This was a pregnant belly, there was no doubt about it, she still wore belly shirts and low cut pants, her belly was round and firm. We would discuss this and could not fathom how she did not know she was pregnant when we all did! We wondered if we were going to hear about her giving birth in the bathroom, her co workers insisted no, she was not pregnant. Thank goodness at 8 months she decided to go to a doctor and admit she was pregnant. Having witnessed this first hand I just cant believe that unless you dont want to know you cant see it. CA must not have even wanted to know is all I can figure.

 

[LCoastMom]

Actually Passionflower, that is from the first National TV interview, GMA? And CA was STROKING his leg the whole time, and I remember thinking, how freakin' wierd that was! So glad you brought this up. That was one of the first things I thought was VERY odd about the A's.

You know I think CA is a very tactile person. She is soothed by this, even when she thinks she's doing the soothing. Maybe it's just a nervous tick.

She did the same thing to JB the night KC was arrested the second time and to Rob when they went to talk to LP about the memorial service.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

View attachment 1107new family photo? death grip on LA leg from mom???? darn I can't get it to copy over!
I don't know if I am allowed to say it is on .......look!

No. That is an older photo taken when they were on the morning news show. Probably back in August if I recall.

 

[Capri]

View attachment 1107new family photo? death grip on LA leg from mom???? darn I can't get it to copy over!
I don't know if I am allowed to say it is on .......look!

I know this is an early-in-the-case pic, but it is so telling. CA's hand is way up on LA's thigh, much higher on the thigh than the average 20-something guy would feel comfortable with his mother doing. Boundary issues showing here. Also interesting is the "blocking" LA is doing with his hands.

 

[metalcrystal]

You know I think CA is a very tactile person. She is soothed by this, even when she thinks she's doing the soothing. Maybe it's just a nervous tick.

She did the same thing to JB the night KC was arrested the second time and to Rob when they went to talk to LP about the memorial service.

Yep, all men. Interesting.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I know this is an early-in-the-case pic, but it is so telling. CA's hand is way up on LA's thigh, much higher on the thigh than the average 20-something guy would feel comfortable with his mother doing. Boundary issues showing here. Also interesting is the "blocking" LA is doing with his hands.

I don't see anything perverse or wrong with Cindy grabbing on to Lee's leg in that manner. It appears to me that is a grip of "I can't do this alone"...note George is also holding her other hand. Remember folks, this woman was suffering terribly and worried and the aura of all the camera's, news, etc. had to have been overwhelming to say the least.
By the way...I question more why Lee is not holding on to his mom? What is he keeping clenched away from her? I still cannot help but to think that he has more involvement in this than what we know.

 

[Alpha Leader]

This is not the first picture of CA doing a lot of touching. During the LP deal and the divers at JBP there is a video of her hanging onto one of LP's associates, a lingering hug. Then in a picture in their front lawn, another hug, with GA in the picture staring off in some random direction like he is bird watching or something.

One thing I have noticed in the posts is that some of these behaviors seem odd to some and normal to others. This is why I think examples of other peoples behaviors are so informative, because, just observing the picture posted and the others, my impression of CA is that there is something smoldering underneath that causes this behavior. I feel this way mainly because I do not really know anyone first hand who exhibits a similar behavior.

 

[metalcrystal]

I don't see anything perverse or wrong with Cindy grabbing on to Lee's leg in that manner. It appears to me that is a grip of "I can't do this alone"...note George is also holding her other hand. Remember folks, this woman was suffering terribly and worried and the aura of all the camera's, news, etc. had to have been overwhelming to say the least.
By the way...I question more why Lee is not holding on to his mom? What is he keeping clenched away from her? I still cannot help but to think that he has more involvement in this than what we know.

The way she strokes on men is NOT normal for a 50 yr. old housewife, at least not in my world. She even was hanging on Yuri and calling the detctives "hon". Too much familiarity, no matter what you are going thru. My family is very affectionate but I would not be stroking my son's thigh, he would have his arm around me, and so would my husband. But my husband would flip out if I was stroking mens backs, that I barely knew. To us, it seems very inapproriate.
And no offense, but i havent seen CA overwhelmed yet in ANY way.