Casey's car: Did she intend to retrieve it from Amscot or what?

[denisemb]

By the time GA got the car the decomp was in the car, and reeking. The people who towed it into that Lot smelled it and should have called that car into LE.
There is no skill to make that go away, unless you reconstruct, tear stuff out and replace it.

Now I'm totally confused.

Exactly what evidence did he tamper with? What did he clean up? What proof did he cover up?

I'm really trying to understand. Are you saying GA was there when Caylee died? Or ICA told him later & he coached her to cover up?

 

[songline]

Now I'm totally confused.

Exactly what evidence did he tamper with? What did he clean up? What proof did he cover up?

I'm really trying to understand. Are you saying GA was there when Caylee died? Or ICA told him later & he coached her to cover up?

This is my opinion only:

You cannot harm a body whether intentionally or by accident without there being some evidence.
FIRST I do not believe that the body was missing 31 days before they all knew about it I think KC told GA long before 31 days. he may have said do not tell anyone keep on going as if nothing is wrong. GA started to make sure that whatever evidence was there would be cleaned up.
SECOND the body was planted someplace to buy time, the call to the police that someone came to bust into his shed is a side show also known as prop
THIRD after the clean up CA was told something and she called 911
The continued men hunt for Caylee was more buying time...I strongly believe that only when GA was certain that the body was totally decomposed... Did he let them find her.

What did he clean up - if I knew that I would be the supper LE.
IMHO LE should have NEVER paid GA any mind and done a better job from the start.

THE CAR should have been picked up 10 minutes after CA said the car smells like death.
That car was cleaned up to the best of their ability. Death smell doe not come out.

NOBODY can convince me that GA did not clean up - nobody can tell me that KC can pull off anything this methodical.
GA just wants them to set his daughter free. In addition, since he did a superb job she will be free.
I know that her family reads here, I know some people think she is the devil.
I think she is sick and I think they just did what they felt they could do to save her. As A parent of a bipolar daughter I do understand, I do not care what her physiological test were many mental illnesses take a very long time to diagnose. However, I will say this much I DID know something is wrong many years before my adult daughter was finally diagnosed properly. IN ADDITION, I WOULD BET dollars for donuts that they too know. AND THAT is why they wanted to save her.

Please feel free to belive what ever works for you. :innocent:

 

[LongtimeMedic]

No... she had better places like bars and tattoo parlors to spend whatever money she was stealing than using it to pick up a car. Besides... she was driving Amy's car. JMO

 

[LongtimeMedic]

This is my opinion only:

You cannot harm a body whether intentionally or by accident without there being some evidence.
FIRST I do not believe that the body was missing 31 days before they all knew about it I think KC told GA long before 31 days. he may have said do not tell anyone keep on going as if nothing is wrong. GA started to make sure that whatever evidence was there would be cleaned up.
SECOND the body was planted someplace to buy time, the call to the police that someone came to bust into his shed is a side show also known as prop
THIRD after the clean up CA was told something and she called 911
The continued men hunt for Caylee was more buying time...I strongly believe that only when GA was certain that the body was totally decomposed... Did he let them find her.

What did he clean up - if I knew that I would be the supper LE.
IMHO LE should have NEVER paid GA any mind and done a better job from the start.

THE CAR should have been picked up 10 minutes after CA said the car smells like death.
That car was cleaned up to the best of their ability. Death smell doe not come out.

NOBODY can convince me that GA did not clean up - nobody can tell me that KC can pull off anything this methodical.
GA just wants them to set his daughter free. In addition, since he did a superb job she will be free.
I know that her family reads here, I know some people think she is the devil.
I think she is sick and I think they just did what they felt they could do to save her. As A parent of a bipolar daughter I do understand, I do not care what her physiological test were many mental illnesses take a very long time to diagnose. However, I will say this much I DID know something is wrong many years before my adult daughter was finally diagnosed properly. IN ADDITION, I WOULD BET dollars for donuts that they too know. AND THAT is why they wanted to save her.

Please feel free to belive what ever works for you. :innocent:

Shazzam!!!! I so totally agree!!! :clap:

 

[lynxofsd]

This is my opinion only:

FIRST I do not believe that the body was missing 31 days before they all knew about it...I think KC told GA long before 31 days. He may have said "do not tell anyone. keep on going as if nothing is wrong". GA started to make sure that whatever evidence was there would be cleaned up.

THIRD after the clean up CA was told "something" and she called 911.
The continued manhunt for Caylee was buying more time...I strongly believe that only when GA was certain that the body was totally decomposed...did he let them find her.

NOBODY can convince me that GA did not clean up - nobody can tell me that KC can pull off anything this methodical. GA just wants them to set his daughter free. In addition, since he did a superb job she will be free.

OK. I'm following you.

For your theory to be correct, George was not only unaffected by Cindy's increasing sense of distress and worry that advanced each day she was unable to contact their granddaughter, who he knew was already dead, but he also continued to hold the secret of Caylee's death inside of him as if it was locked within a pharaoh's tomb--and all for the sake of his daughter.

Like a sphinx, he spoke nothing of this matter to anyone, and like Casey, he went about the daily routine of his like as if nothing had changed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is that what you believe, Songline?

 

[Dysthymia]

This is my opinion only:

You cannot harm a body whether intentionally or by accident without there being some evidence.
FIRST I do not believe that the body was missing 31 days before they all knew about it I think KC told GA long before 31 days. he may have said do not tell anyone keep on going as if nothing is wrong. GA started to make sure that whatever evidence was there would be cleaned up.
SECOND the body was planted someplace to buy time, the call to the police that someone came to bust into his shed is a side show also known as prop
THIRD after the clean up CA was told something and she called 911
The continued men hunt for Caylee was more buying time...I strongly believe that only when GA was certain that the body was totally decomposed... Did he let them find her.

What did he clean up - if I knew that I would be the supper LE.
IMHO LE should have NEVER paid GA any mind and done a better job from the start.

THE CAR should have been picked up 10 minutes after CA said the car smells like death.
That car was cleaned up to the best of their ability. Death smell doe not come out.

NOBODY can convince me that GA did not clean up - nobody can tell me that KC can pull off anything this methodical.
GA just wants them to set his daughter free. In addition, since he did a superb job she will be free.
I know that her family reads here, I know some people think she is the devil.
I think she is sick and I think they just did what they felt they could do to save her. As A parent of a bipolar daughter I do understand, I do not care what her physiological test were many mental illnesses take a very long time to diagnose. However, I will say this much I DID know something is wrong many years before my adult daughter was finally diagnosed properly. IN ADDITION, I WOULD BET dollars for donuts that they too know. AND THAT is why they wanted to save her.

Please feel free to belive what ever works for you. :innocent:

Everyone has their opinion but if George knew all this why didn't he just take Caylee's body and find a secret place and bury her so deeply no one would ever find her body? Then he and Cindy and Casey could make up a totally convincing story that Caylee's biological father wanted her and Casey felt he'd be a better parent than she could be. That would be more believable than all the George masterminding some completely crazy plan with Kronk and Caylee's little skeleton with duct tape stuck to her hair. As it stands, he didn't "clean up" anything. Caylee's little face with the duct tape on it showed no one was able to alter her body where she was dumped. That one shocking piece of evidence is what makes Casey look so guilty. If he, Casey, and Cindy would have lied (and lying is something that they all have done enormous amounts of during the past three years) then George would never have to face these devastating sexual abuse accusations and Casey would never be on trial facing the death penalty.

There is no plan in evidence at all. Caylee's death could be accidental or not, but George's cover up of the crime was whenever he started guessing what happened and began to lie about it.

Oh, and the car at Amscot. I think Casey was planning on getting it back, IF the smell had gone away. She probably planned to get another gas can full of gas and drive it again but it was towed away instead.

IMO

 

[denisemb]

This is my opinion only:

You cannot harm a body whether intentionally or by accident without there being some evidence.
FIRST I do not believe that the body was missing 31 days before they all knew about it I think KC told GA long before 31 days. he may have said do not tell anyone keep on going as if nothing is wrong. GA started to make sure that whatever evidence was there would be cleaned up.
SECOND the body was planted someplace to buy time, the call to the police that someone came to bust into his shed is a side show also known as prop
THIRD after the clean up CA was told something and she called 911
The continued men hunt for Caylee was more buying time...I strongly believe that only when GA was certain that the body was totally decomposed... Did he let them find her.

What did he clean up - if I knew that I would be the supper LE.
IMHO LE should have NEVER paid GA any mind and done a better job from the start.

THE CAR should have been picked up 10 minutes after CA said the car smells like death.
That car was cleaned up to the best of their ability. Death smell doe not come out.

NOBODY can convince me that GA did not clean up - nobody can tell me that KC can pull off anything this methodical.
GA just wants them to set his daughter free. In addition, since he did a superb job she will be free.
I know that her family reads here, I know some people think she is the devil.
I think she is sick and I think they just did what they felt they could do to save her. As A parent of a bipolar daughter I do understand, I do not care what her physiological test were many mental illnesses take a very long time to diagnose. However, I will say this much I DID know something is wrong many years before my adult daughter was finally diagnosed properly. IN ADDITION, I WOULD BET dollars for donuts that they too know. AND THAT is why they wanted to save her.

Please feel free to belive what ever works for you. :innocent:

I am not a LE officer, but even I recognize too many elementary mistakes for GA to be involved, especially from the moment of death. (Tightly sealed jumbo storage tote, anyone? No chance of decomp fluid in trunk.)

But I'll go with your theory that ICA only told GA AFTER the decomposition fluid leaked into her trunk.

GA would have made KC's car DISAPPEAR. I live in FL. There are numerous scrub forests & bodies of water (lakes, retention ponds, etc.) within a 100 mile radius of Orlando that would have been a much better choice for disposal of the remains and/or vehicle. 4 hr. drive would take one to the Everglades (miles of alligators & swamps). Torching the car is another option.

I'll stick with my own theory ICA left her car at Amscot hoping it would be stolen (complete with bag, keys, carseat, mama doll & odor). If/when the vehicle was recovered, there might be some unidentified fingerprints on the vehicle, equalling "Zanny stole my baby & car!".

 

[songline]

I am not a LE officer, but even I recognize too many elementary mistakes for GA to be involved, especially from the moment of death. (Tightly sealed jumbo storage tote, anyone? No chance of decomp fluid in trunk.)

But I'll go with your theory that ICA only told GA AFTER the decomposition fluid leaked into her trunk.

GA would have made KC's car DISAPPEAR. I live in FL. There are numerous scrub forests & bodies of water (lakes, retention ponds, etc.) within a 100 mile radius of Orlando that would have been a much better choice for disposal of the remains and/or vehicle. 4 hr. drive would take one to the Everglades (miles of alligators & swamps). Torching the car is another option.

I'll stick with my own theory ICA left her car at Amscot hoping it would be stolen (complete with bag, keys, carseat, mama doll & odor). If/when the vehicle was recovered, there might be some unidentified fingerprints on the vehicle, equalling "Zanny stole my baby & car!".

After Amscot called GA and turned the car over to GA?
How would he explain it just disappeared? Another Zanny story?
IMO he had to sound a bit like an ex "LE" and that is what he did.

But here is the exact problem that GA was praying for, NO PROOF of anything make the case be dismissed somehow...

As for the body in a bag... she could have done that, so if she needs to open her trunk, there would not be a visible body there.
The smell was already in the car when he picked it up.

 

[songline]

Everyone has their opinion but if George knew all this why didn't he just take Caylee's body and find a secret place and bury her so deeply no one would ever find her body? Then he and Cindy and Casey could make up a totally convincing story that Caylee's biological father wanted her and Casey felt he'd be a better parent than she could be. That would be more believable than all the George masterminding some completely crazy plan with Kronk and Caylee's little skeleton with duct tape stuck to her hair. As it stands, he didn't "clean up" anything. Caylee's little face with the duct tape on it showed no one was able to alter her body where she was dumped. That one shocking piece of evidence is what makes Casey look so guilty. If he, Casey, and Cindy would have lied (and lying is something that they all have done enormous amounts of during the past three years) then George would never have to face these devastating sexual abuse accusations and Casey would never be on trial facing the death penalty.

There is no plan in evidence at all. Caylee's death could be accidental or not, but George's cover up of the crime was whenever he started guessing what happened and began to lie about it.

Oh, and the car at Amscot. I think Casey was planning on getting it back, IF the smell had gone away. She probably planned to get another gas can full of gas and drive it again but it was towed away instead.

IMO

Like you said, we all have an opinion and IMHO there is no way that KC could have done such a mastery cover up. No way at all :innocent:

The cover up is methodical. GA used to clean up his car so it never had a streak he is a real clean kind of person.
Again NO WAY could KC have been so thorough.

But everyone is welcome to think whatever they wish.

 

[songline]

OK. I'm following you.

For your theory to be correct, George was not only unaffected by Cindy's increasing sense of distress and worry that advanced each day she was unable to contact their granddaughter, who he knew was already dead, but he also continued to hold the secret of Caylee's death inside of him as if it was locked within a pharaoh's tomb--and all for the sake of his daughter.

Like a sphinx, he spoke nothing of this matter to anyone, and like Casey, he went about the daily routine of his like as if nothing had changed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is that what you believe, Songline?

I DO. You are reading my concept correctly.

What I do NOT believe under any circumstances is;
that KC can do such a methodical "no evidence clean up job by herself". NO WAY!

 

[songline]

Shazzam!!!! I so totally agree!!! :clap:

Thank you LongtimeMedic.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I DO. You are reading my concept correctly.

What I do NOT believe under any circumstances is;
that KC can do such a methodical "no evidence job".

I do understand where you are coming from, Casey really doesn't seem methodical at all. I do think there is a possibility that there may have been an attempt to clean the car before LE took custody of it. Did LE make mistakes, or fail to act as aggressively as they could have? It's hard to say, hindsight being 20/20 and all that. This case is so hard to understand, even after 3 years and countless investigative manhours, that I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think some of the other posters have raised some very valid questions regarding how methodical or well planned out this whole thing really was. The lack of physical evidence is frustrating, but I would lean towards the simplest explaination, IMO that being that the 31 days simply gave Casey the advantage of time. One of the simplest truths in LE is that the sooner after the crime they get involved, the more likely they are to recover evidence. MOO

 

[songline]

I do understand where you are coming from, Casey really doesn't seem methodical at all. I do think there is a possibility that there may have been an attempt to clean the car before LE took custody of it. Did LE make mistakes, or fail to act as aggressively as they could have? It's hard to say, hindsight being 20/20 and all that. This case is so hard to understand, even after 3 years and countless investigative manhours, that I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think some of the other posters have raised some very valid questions regarding how methodical or well planned out this whole thing really was. The lack of physical evidence is frustrating, but I would lean towards the simplest explaination, IMO that being that the 31 days simply gave Casey the advantage of time. One of the simplest truths in LE is that the sooner after the crime they get involved, the more likely they are to recover evidence. MOO

BBM:
I agree,
and thererfor, IMHO DADDY dearest the former LE knowing this,
was incharge of how to avoide LE from getting involved too soon.
MOO

 

[denisemb]

::::Originally Posted by songline
This is my opinion only:

You cannot harm a body whether intentionally or by accident without there being some evidence.
FIRST I do not believe that the body was missing 31 days before they all knew about it I think KC told GA long before 31 days. he may have said do not tell anyone keep on going as if nothing is wrong. GA started to make sure that whatever evidence was there would be cleaned up. ::::

I'm still confused by your theory. Please bear with me. If KC told GA long before the 31 days, the car would never have made it to Amscot (left there 6/27) & been towed (6/30).

Are you saying KC told GA, "Oh, Caylee accidently died, help me cover it up" & she forgot to mention the smell in the car to him or that she dumped it at Amscot.

Actually I don't think it was methodical at all. If she were methodical, there never would have been decomp fluid in the trunk.

 

[songline]

::::Originally Posted by songline
This is my opinion only:

You cannot harm a body whether intentionally or by accident without there being some evidence.
FIRST I do not believe that the body was missing 31 days before they all knew about it I think KC told GA long before 31 days. he may have said do not tell anyone keep on going as if nothing is wrong. GA started to make sure that whatever evidence was there would be cleaned up. ::::

I'm still confused by your theory. Please bear with me. If KC told GA long before the 31 days, the car would never have made it to Amscot (left there 6/27) & been towed (6/30).

Are you saying KC told GA, "Oh, Caylee accidently died, help me cover it up" & she forgot to mention the smell in the car to him or that she dumped it at Amscot.

Actually I don't think it was methodical at all. If she were methodical, there never would have been decomp fluid in the trunk.

IMO
The fluid in the car was before GA got involved. the car was clened of evidence of who done it after he got the car. The baby was missing since 6/16. Who knowshow long the baby was in the Car before GA knew more.
I think she told GA long before they found out where the car is.

 

[GeekyGirl]

BBM:
I agree,
and thererfor, IMHO DADDY dearest the former LE knowing this,
was incharge of how to avoide LE from getting involved too soon.
MOO

I think the point the other posters are trying to make is that anyone who knows anything about LE probably would have done a better job of trying to cover their tracks. The whole thing, IMO, just smacks of disorganiztion and impulsive actions. I hate to phrase it this way, but I think she just got lucky when she managed to get away with it for a month. MOO

 

[songline]

I think the point the other posters are trying to make is that anyone who knows anything about LE probably would have done a better job of trying to cover their tracks. The whole thing, IMO, just smacks of disorganiztion and impulsive actions. I hate to phrase it this way, but I think she just got lucky when she managed to get away with it for a month. MOO

I respect all of your opinions. really I do.
But the stuff that I think was "disorgenized or impulsive" as you see it, Are the things she did before GA knew about it, and some things he could not change and some he did not want to do anything that would be clearly pointing a finger at his doing.
But IMHO - THE GOAL was to confuse the case and get her to walk.
And NO KC did not do all the hiding / misguiding others by herself.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I respect all of your opinions. really I do.
But the stuff that I think was "disorgenized or impulsive" as you see it, Are the things she did before GA knew about it, and some things he could not change and some he did not want to do anything that would be clearly pointing a finger at his doing.
But IMHO - THE GOAL was to confuse the case and get her to walk.
And NO KC did not do all the hiding / misguiding others by herself.

I guess my question would be, why not do something to ensure she walked? Like plant someone else's DNA? Or move the body to a location where it wouldn't be found? Or get rid of the car? Respectfully, the state has, IMO, a pretty strong case for manslaughter at the very least. If this was a methodical coverup, it just kind seems like a lousy one. MOO

 

[songline]

I guess my question would be, why not do something to ensure she walked? Like plant someone else's DNA? Or move the body to a location where it wouldn't be found? Or get rid of the car? Respectfully, the state has, IMO, a pretty strong case for manslaughter at the very least. If this was a methodical coverup, it just kind seems like a lousy one. MOO

AGAIN - MOO

Some things were already done. such as the stench in the car before GA knew.
Once the car was turned over to him
(should have been turned over to the police, by the lot - he go t luck that it was not turned over to the cops).
However, once he signed for the car, WAS he going to get rid of the car and make up another zanny story?
PLANTING DNA is - very serious, he just wanted to misguide LE and clean up the best he can. He did!
there are things that can not be done, like take the stench out of the car.

I know some want to think that KC is the devil. I think she is a sick kid and her family knew/suspected that.

 

[lynxofsd]

OK. I'm following you.

For your theory to be correct, George was not only unaffected by Cindy's increasing sense of distress and worry that advanced each day she was unable to contact their granddaughter, who he knew was already dead, but he also continued to hold the secret of Caylee's death inside of him as if it was locked within a pharaoh's tomb--and all for the sake of his daughter.

Like a sphinx, he spoke nothing of this matter to anyone, and like Casey, he went about the daily routine of his life as if nothing had changed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is that what you believe, Songline?

I DO. You are reading my concept correctly. What I do NOT believe under any circumstances is that KC can do such a methodical "no evidence clean up job by herself". NO WAY!

Well, at the least, because of George's silence about the earth-shattering secret that Caylee was dead while his wife was becoming increasingly distraught about her absence, this probably means he is ineligible for the Husband of the Year award from the local Marriage Encounter group, I suppose.

And, being thoroughly aware that Casey was staying away from home to avoid a direct confrontation with her mother about Caylee's absence (if not her death, which she hasn't owned up to to this very day) only adds further insult to the injury inflicted upon his wife and her well being.

Regardless of how well he kept the secret, though, he knew it would be revealed when he came to the towing yard to retrieve the Sunfire. Once Cindy detected the unmistakable odor signaling the worst possible explanation for Caylee's absence, she tidied up what she could before blowing her world to smithereens by dialing Amy's phone number.

I realize that George is in a world of conflict most fathers with grandchildren never face, and maybe you know him better than I do, but I don't believe he sat on the secret of his granddaughter's death to spare Casey and further traumatize his wife, his marriage, and himself in the process.

That's horrendous behavior, and I don't think he contemplated it, because Casey never told him anything about Caylee's death, just as she told nobody else.

Forgive me if I disagree with your version of events. Human behavior obviously can take forms that make no sense to either you or I, but IMO that does not include George internalizing the secret of Caylee's death in one of the more evil father-daughter pacts that history will document.

It would have destroyed him first.