Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

[tlcya]

@Kamille

So that makes the BBM portion of your post above even more interesting to me. This makes a lot of sense. This makes Judge Judy sense to me (high praise in my book)

 

[Kamille]

@Kamille

So that makes the BBM portion of your post above even more interesting to me. This makes a lot of sense. This makes Judge Judy sense to me (high praise in my book)

LOL...well if AB is involved, which one do you think would have tossed the leg in the bush and which one do you think would have buried the remains in a peaceful spot next to a stream and possibly close to a waterfall?

MOO

 

[tlcya]

LOL...well if AB is involved, which one do you think would have tossed the leg in the bush and which one do you think would have buried the remains in a peaceful spot next to a stream and possibly close to a waterfall?

MOO

hmmm, wow, that's a tough one.

*Sarcasm alert*

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Can someone explain to me what bigamy has to do with cause of death, and why this is the sub-topic in this thread?

 

[SherlockHomey]

I keep reading about "multiple" dump sites and dismemberment but it appears that LE have only found remains at two locations, even though EB supposedly directed them to three. And at one of the two locations they only found one bone...in the same vicinity as where they found the prosthetic. Taking into account that the bone could have been moved by animals, at the moment we are only aware of two locations where remains were found. Is it possible that this dismemberment was strictly the removal of the one leg with the prosthetic that would positively identify Zahra? And could the third site that EB directed them to be the Indian Grave Rd site that they searched twice, one in secrecy without the media finding out about it? Where LE claimed that nothing was found. Was this third site just a red herring EB threw in there?

My thought is that they split up in two cars and spread the evidence separately. EB may have only showed her where she thought AB had dumped his part so as to only point the finger at him. This would account for the why doesn't she know exactly where and only a bit. Did that make sense? My brain is so addled. They cannot be this smart. Then again, I suppose I don't think like a killer. *sigh*

 

[Clue Hopper]

My thought is that they split up in two cars and spread the evidence separately. EB may have only showed her where she thought AB had dumped his part so as to only point the finger at him. This would account for the why doesn't she know exactly where and only a bit. Did that make sense? My brain is so addled. They cannot be this smart. Then again, I suppose I don't think like a killer. *sigh*

EB is smart though. This is what everyone is missing. She is what they call street smart. She knows how to get what she wants and how to go about it.

 

[SherlockHomey]

EB is smart though. This is what everyone is missing. She is what they call street smart. She knows how to get what she wants and how to go about it.

You are right. She is a master manipulator. :banghead:

 

[Kamille]

My thought is that they split up in two cars and spread the evidence separately. EB may have only showed her where she thought AB had dumped his part so as to only point the finger at him. This would account for the why doesn't she know exactly where and only a bit. Did that make sense? My brain is so addled. They cannot be this smart. Then again, I suppose I don't think like a killer. *sigh*

Well I suppose there's always the possibility that EB was already working on the kidnapping caper when she was trying to figure out how to dispose of Zahra. The leg was not buried and placed in an area that was known for garbage/animal carcass dumping. The chances of someone stumbling on it at some point were much higher than the remains that were buried. So if we are thinking like a killer with a plan, once the call was made regarding the fire and ransom note and Zahra was reported missing, finding just the leg would indicate that Zahra was dead at the hands of the mysterious kidnappers, therefore putting an end to the missing person alert and allowing the parents to "grieve" over her death. Hiding and burying the rest of the remains would not allow for LE to find out the actual cause of her death.

Assuming that she did it alone though, it still is hard to imagine EB digging that hole. I wonder if there were any shovels at the house that LE took into evidence. Can they tie in a shovel from the house to that area where the hole was dug? Is there someone else with the shovel?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

EB is smart though. This is what everyone is missing. She is what they call street smart. She knows how to get what she wants and how to go about it.

Exactly Clue Hopper, neither we nor especially LE should underestimate what this woman is capable of. She appears to have absolutely no conscience.

MOO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

No way I'm ever going to buy the idea that EB did all this alone. There are just so many things that point to AB's guilt...his 911 call, the fact that Zahra never attended the school she was already pre-enrolled in, the blood on the console of his "company vehicle", cadaver dogs hitting on both EB and his vehicles, dismemberment and clean up taking place in the house where he lived...the list goes on and on.

He could be the best actor in the world (which he isn't), and he'd STILL have to come up with a logical explanation for all these things. I don't believe he can.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I do not believe that any dismemberment was accomplished prior to Zahra's death and that it is not a cause.

I'm really struggling with the cause of death in this case. With EB's history of abuse, it's entirely possible that she went too far and stuck Zahra in a way that killed her. The dismemberment in that scenario, other than to delay the identity of remains, doesn't fit though.

But if she really was "found dead" and infection was present in the amputated limb and that is a possible cause, it might explain why someone felt it needed to be disposed of separately. But you'd think it would have been buried as well so that's where it appears that there is more than one person responsible for the disposal. Each person had their task and handled it differently.

If her leg was dismembered with the prosthetic on however, it kind of negates the possibility that Zahra was "found dead" from illness. If she were that sick and in bed, she would not have been wearing the prosthetic at the time of her death and there would have been no need to dispose of it. Especially to fit in with the kidnapped from her bed story.

Just random thoughts based on what we've heard so far.

MOO

Anyone twisted enough to dismember a child and disguard her remains like garbage in three separate places is capable of anything. I am not willing to rule anything out in my mind. That fact alone, proves to me, beyond all doubt, that she had something SIGNIFICANT to hide.....like a brutal murder.

 

[Kamille]

No way I'm ever going to buy the idea that EB did all this alone. There are just so many things that point to AB's guilt...his 911 call, the fact that Zahra never attended the school she was already pre-enrolled in, the blood on the console of his "company vehicle", cadaver dogs hitting on both EB and his vehicles, dismemberment and clean up taking place in the house where he lived...the list goes on and on.

He could be the best actor in the world (which he isn't), and he'd STILL have to come up with a logical explanation for all these things. I don't believe he can.

JMO

Zahra did not attend the school she was enrolled in because they moved out of the area. She would not have been able to attend that school without a proper transfer. She was supposed to have been enrolled in the school in her new area and her records transferred. That was not done. She also never attended school for the first 3 months that she was in the US so it was not the first time she did not attend school for a long period of time likely due to laziness and an uncaring attitude towards school by both of her "parents".

I'm not disputing that there may have been evidence in both vehicles. Blood in his work vehicle on the console however can be from him or anyone else who may have used that vehicle before him. I'm sure tree cutters can nick themselves on the job quite often.

I don't doubt that the mattress was dumped using the Tahoe though. I can't see it fitting in the other vehicle. But it could have been dumped while he was sleeping on the night of the fire, sometime before the fire was lit at 5am. EB has admitted to being up at 2:30am that evening since she was supposedly the one who "checked on Zahra". She has never disputed this that we know of.

Unfortunately it appears, at the moment, as though the only witness to the mattress dumping was EB herself since it was her who told LE about it and her who told them where it was dumped and when. I am hoping they have other witnesses on that though because her telling them it was done prior to Oct 8th means nothing really.

MOO

 

[raisincharlie]

<snip>

Unfortunately it appears, at the moment, as though the only witness to the mattress dumping was EB herself since it was her who told LE about it and her who told them where it was dumped and when. I am hoping they have other witnesses on that though because her telling them it was done prior to Oct 8th means nothing really.

MOO

There may be some assistance on this issue - that being the landfill itself. The fact that LE did not find the mattress in the grid determined indicates the initial story was not truthful. I say that because of environmental requirements, landfills keep very close records on what loads were disposed at what grids on what day. This is done to assist in locating contamination detected through on-site monitoring wells - it is the only way for a landfill to determine the source area for remediation. This tells them what dumpster came in on what day and definition of the dumping location within the landfill.

So while it seems on face value, EB first lied as no mattress was found in an area determined from records, it did show up at another location within the landfill. Records could well help to determine what day that occurred. All is not lost on that issue.

 

[Kamille]

There may be some assistance on this issue - that being the landfill itself. The fact that LE did not find the mattress in the grid determined indicates the initial story was not truthful. I say that because of environmental requirements, landfills keep very close records on what loads were disposed at what grids on what day. This is done to assist in locating contamination detected through on-site monitoring wells - it is the only way for a landfill to determine the source area for remediation. This tells them what dumpster came in on what day and definition of the dumping location within the landfill.

So while it seems on face value, EB first lied as no mattress was found in an area determined from records, it did show up at another location within the landfill. Records could well help to determine what day that occurred. All is not lost on that issue.

Very good point raisincharlie! It could actually go in AB's favour if it was determined that she lied about the mattress being dumped earlier than the 8th and records show it was actually likely dumped on or about that day.

However, they supposedly did find it within the grid pattern that they had determined but it wasn't LE who found it. It was landfill workers who found it when they were regrading the area after the LE search according to the press. Although that story always seemed odd.

MOO

 

[wenwe4]

I keep reading about "multiple" dump sites and dismemberment but it appears that LE have only found remains at two locations, even though EB supposedly directed them to three. And at one of the two locations they only found one bone...in the same vicinity as where they found the prosthetic. Taking into account that the bone could have been moved by animals, at the moment we are only aware of two locations where remains were found. Is it possible that this dismemberment was strictly the removal of the one leg with the prosthetic that would positively identify Zahra? And could the third site that EB directed them to be the Indian Grave Rd site that they searched twice, one in secrecy without the media finding out about it? Where LE claimed that nothing was found. Was this third site just a red herring EB threw in there?

bbm

I am wondering if the 3rd site was the place where the Defense Atty recovered evidence and turned it over to the state.

I believe there is a reason why the one bone and prosthesis was found 5 miles from the rest of the body. There was a need to keep these separated from the rest of the remains. I think the actual evidence of COD was related to the bone they found w/the leg and gel liner.

What if EB broke Zahra's amputated leg from a severe beating that caused an open femur fracture? There is the an issue of the femoral artery that could have spurted blood against the wall in the bedroom and on the mattress. It has been said by EB's family members that she would hit Zahra in/or around the prosthesis because there was mention EB broke her hand doing so. I am wondering if EB decided not to use her hand anymore to beat Zahra - so she used an implement that cause significant injury.

 

[wenwe4]

Very good point raisincharlie! It could actually go in AB's favour if it was determined that she lied about the mattress being dumped earlier than the 8th and records show it was actually likely dumped on or about that day.

However, they supposedly did find it within the grid pattern that they had determined but it wasn't LE who found it. It was landfill workers who found it when they were regrading the area after the LE search according to the press. Although that story always seemed odd.

MOO

Well, could it be that EB gave the actual dumpster information correctly, but it was from a week earlier? That would fit with finding it within the same grid pattern - so likely it was from the same dumpster or at least one from that same pickup route. To my knowledge, dumpsters are dumped once a week, unless it is a private pay one for short term use for a specific job - then they are dumped when they are picked up and removed.

This could change the date of death to a week prior (ie: the 1st). That would give AB & EB a whole week to dismember, dispose, come up with a coverup story, hide any drugs in the house, and go into complete coverup mode.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I'm thinking about this dumpster. IIRC LE took a dumpster from next to the house (one of the businesses - I think it was a restaurant). Either way, they took that dumpster - so its very possible that THAT dumpster was the one he/she/they used. That makes sense as all they had to do was get the mattress out the back door and a short walk to the dumpster and throw it in.

FWIW I think that is the dumpster that everyone is talking about.

 

[SherlockHomey]

I'm thinking about this dumpster. IIRC LE took a dumpster from next to the house (one of the businesses - I think it was a restaurant). Either way, they took that dumpster - so its very possible that THAT dumpster was the one he/she/they used. That makes sense as all they had to do was get the mattress out the back door and a short walk to the dumpster and throw it in.

FWIW I think that is the dumpster that everyone is talking about.

I don't remember them taking that dumpster. Do you have a link? If they did take that one, it seems that it would have went to the Catawba county landfill and not the Caldwell county one? :waitasec:

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I don't remember them taking that dumpster. Do you have a link? If they did take that one, it seems that it would have went to the Catawba county landfill and not the Caldwell county one? :waitasec:

I'll have to go look - it was early on - I think right before EB was taken on her lil field trips.

BRB

 

[Kamille]

I don't remember them taking that dumpster. Do you have a link? If they did take that one, it seems that it would have went to the Catawba county landfill and not the Caldwell county one? :waitasec:

Yes that's the key about this mattress disposal SherlockHomey. It was found in a landfill that did not service the area in which they were now living (Catawba) but rather the area that they had moved from (Caldwell). So the mattress had to have been disposed of using a vehicle. The Tahoe is the likely choice. And was the dumpster one that was likely familiar to both of them? So who dumped the mattress and when?

MOO