Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

[Wise Old Owl]

I don't remember them taking that dumpster. Do you have a link? If they did take that one, it seems that it would have went to the Catawba county landfill and not the Caldwell county one? :waitasec:

Yea yea yea - I found it. Finally - it was WAY BACK in the very beginning. In fact, Homey - you ans I talked about it - lol

Here:

Originally Posted by Paintr
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ild-ar-455936/

Wednesday’s search included investigation in Catawba, Burke and Caldwell counties. However, as of press time Wednesday, Zahra has not been found.

snip...

In Catawba County, the property around the Baker home was searched with a K-9 unit again. The dumpster for a restaurant near the Baker’s home on 21st Avenue, NW, was also hauled away so investigators could look through it to ensure there was no evidence inside.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5684550&postcount=55"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #8[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5690579&postcount=507"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #10[/ame]

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Yea yea yea - I found it. Finally - it was WAY BACK in the very beginning. In fact, Homey - you ans I talked about it - lol

Here:

Originally Posted by Paintr
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ild-ar-455936/

Wednesday’s search included investigation in Catawba, Burke and Caldwell counties. However, as of press time Wednesday, Zahra has not been found.

snip...

In Catawba County, the property around the Baker home was searched with a K-9 unit again. The dumpster for a restaurant near the Baker’s home on 21st Avenue, NW, was also hauled away so investigators could look through it to ensure there was no evidence inside.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #8

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #10

Thank you! I was looking for a link to confirm that I'd read this somewhere!

ETA: Ummm...link not working.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Thank you! I was looking for a link to confirm that I'd read this somewhere!

ETA: Ummm...link not working.

I'm sorry about the link. I didn't try it when I found it as it was quoted by Paintr.

I guess the HR has pulled that story or whatever. It was driving me nuts because I knew that I had read that LE took that dumpster.

Does this still count as MSM - even tho the link is gone? Oh well, it does for me - FWIW.

I still believe that EB turned them on to that dumpster and that is what initiated the landfill search.

 

[tehcloser]

The document says Baker also directed investigators to other sites where possible evidence was located, including the dumpster where Zahra's mattress was discarded and undisclosed items found at the family's home.

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...ents-zahra-was-dismembered.html#ixzz15eh5AOTB

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I'm sorry about the link. I didn't try it when I found it as it was quoted by Paintr.

I guess the HR has pulled that story or whatever. It was driving me nuts because I knew that I had read that LE took that dumpster.

Does this still count as MSM - even tho the link is gone? Oh well, it does for me - FWIW.

I still believe that EB turned them on to that dumpster and that is what initiated the landfill search.

It counts as MSM as far as I'm concerned, because that link worked for me at the time it was posted.

O/T
Funny that we were both fixated on the taken dumpster in different threads.

 

[KPMcLovin]

I have a friend who lost his leg at 10 years old to cancer. I asked him about prosthetis and this is what he said:
"When I was growing I'd get a new one every couple of years. It wouldn't be possible to use one from 5 to 11. It just wouldn't fit. They are custom fit for your current size, weight and height."

 

[Kamille]

I have a friend who lost his leg at 10 years old to cancer. I asked him about prosthetis and this is what he said:
"When I was growing I'd get a new one every couple of years. It wouldn't be possible to use one from 5 to 11. It just wouldn't fit. They are custom fit for your current size, weight and height."

Well assuming that Zahra was receiving proper medical care in Australia, it's unlikely that the prosthetic that she was wearing at 8 years old when she came to the US was the same one that she received at 5 years old when she first had the amputation. So really we're looking at a prosthetic that hadn't been changed or adjusted for under 2 years.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

two years is still a very long time. We have a member who posted earlier on in the threads whose child is an amputee. The child must be taken for regular followups so that measurements and minute adjustments can be made even when they are not refitted for an entire new prosthetic.

2 years is a long time when taken in context of a 10 year life. Children grow quickly. My children go thru a shoe size about every six to eight months. Change jeans sizes yearly, my daughter (10) is in serious highwaters if she puts on last years jeans. Imagine a prosthetic that never grows while the other leg is growing right along with the rest of Z.

It is not a reasonable conclusion for me to reach that she was not overdue for an adjustment, a fitting, something after two years. This is just the conclusion I come to using my own life's experience.

 

[Ada]

two years is still a very long time. We have a member who posted earlier on in the threads whose child is an amputee. The child must be taken for regular followups so that measurements and minute adjustments can be made even when they are not refitted for an entire new prosthetic.

2 years is a long time when taken in context of a 10 year life. Children grow quickly. My children go thru a shoe size about every six to eight months. Change jeans sizes yearly, my daughter (10) is in serious highwaters if she puts on last years jeans. Imagine a prosthetic that never grows while the other leg is growing right along with the rest of Z.

It is not a reasonable conclusion for me to reach that she was not overdue for an adjustment, a fitting, something after two years. This is just the conclusion I come to using my own life's experience.

As I recall, that poster said it had to be refitted every few months.

 

[panthera]

two years is still a very long time. We have a member who posted earlier on in the threads whose child is an amputee. The child must be taken for regular followups so that measurements and minute adjustments can be made even when they are not refitted for an entire new prosthetic.

2 years is a long time when taken in context of a 10 year life. Children grow quickly. My children go thru a shoe size about every six to eight months. Change jeans sizes yearly, my daughter (10) is in serious highwaters if she puts on last years jeans. Imagine a prosthetic that never grows while the other leg is growing right along with the rest of Z.

It is not a reasonable conclusion for me to reach that she was not overdue for an adjustment, a fitting, something after two years. This is just the conclusion I come to using my own life's experience.

I'd also posted in one of the general discussion threads, my own experience knowing someone (an adult) who has a prosthesis. I've discussed this case with her, and she said there is no way Zahra could've gone two years without refitting or a new prosthesis without experiencing excruciating pain. One would also imagine that the ill-fitting prosthesis would've caused some medical problems at the amputation site, which could've led to sepsis, gangrene, etc. MOO

 

[NoeticSoul]

I'd also posted in one of the general discussion threads, my own experience knowing someone (an adult) who has a prosthesis. I've discussed this case with her, and she said there is no way Zahra could've gone two years without refitting or a new prosthesis without experiencing excruciating pain. One would also imagine that the ill-fitting prosthesis would've caused some medical problems at the amputation site, which could've led to sepsis, gangrene, etc. MOO

I read those posts and learned allot thank you, panthera. I've always been afraid that, that is exactly what EB meant when she said "we really didn't kill her". As IF justifying Zahra's death.. in an almost accusatory way..

JMHO

 

[panthera]

I read those posts and learned allot thank you, panthera. I've always been afraid that, that is exactly what EB meant when she said "we really didn't kill her". As IF justifying Zahra's death.. in an almost accusatory way..

JMHO

EB's statements, even though very possibly self-serving, do fit in with a fatal infection. MOO

 

[NoeticSoul]

EB's statements, even though very possibly self-serving, do fit in with a fatal infection. MOO

They do.

It is unfathomable to me, having 3 kids of my own, that EB (being a "mother") and even MORE so AB.. failing to do as LITTLE as providing her with a comfortable and appropriately fitting prosthetic leg, regularly. Never mind, ignoring an infection and worse.. due to thier neglect, causing her death.

I really believe that EB found some sort of TWISTED joy, in the Angel's pain pertaining to her leg.

Just sickening.

 

[dar107]

There's always a possibility that if Zahra had an infection or virus, or even injuries from a bad beating, that EB was giving her pills to knock her out from the pain. That would keep Zahra in bed sleeping a lot, and she could have overdosed her on them. If she was dealing or using oxys it would be very easy for a young child to overdose. But then IDK if EB would be anywhere near that generous....just floating some ideas around in my head to open my mind a bit as it thinks too much of the worst scenarios.

 

[tlcya]

It would depend on IF there was drug use, dealing or both. If there was use, IMO she would not "waste" one on Z

If there was just dealing, then they were money, and IMO I don't see her "wasting" any of that on Z either.

If drugs played no role in EB's life (refuted by witness statements and paraphanalia found in search) then the question is moot

 

[NoeticSoul]

It would depend on IF there was drug use, dealing or both. If there was use, IMO she would not "waste" one on Z

If there was just dealing, then they were money, and IMO I don't see her "wasting" any of that on Z either.

If drugs played no role in EB's life (refuted by witness statements and paraphanalia found in search) then the question is moot

I'm not feeling that they would "waste" their drugs on Zahra either, if that is the case and they were both dealing and using (which I believe they both were--meth, oxy)

I also believe drugs are the reason for the entire "family scramble" of lies, tall tales, and stories.... from the internet to statements on Nancy Grace.

I still believe that Zahra died of a combination of severe physical abuse, AND gross medical neglect.

JMHO

 

[docwho3]

I have not yet read of a case where parents dismembered a body solely because they
had failed to get medical treatment in time for their sick child.
The world is often a crazy place so I cannot say it is not possible but I have just not
read of such a thing happening yet.
(If anyone finds links to reports of such a thing please let me know.)

Dismemberment is said to be difficult to do both emotionally (for some) and
physically and then there is all that effort to find hiding places for the body parts,
make up a cover story, plan acting lines for the 'kidnaping' of Zahra play, hide the
tools used and clean up the scene of the dismemberment and so on.

All that effort just to avoid admitting they were ignorant of certain medical
knowledge & so allowed the child to go untreated for too long? I really really really
really doubt it. . . . .and cases I have read over the years would seem to argue against
it having happened that way.

In my opinion, when that much effort is applied to a body it usually means there is
something someone would be very ashamed and/or very unhappy to have others know
about that body.

Possible dismemberment aside, innocent parents do not need to hide the body and/or
make up a kidnapping story.

I remember a while back there was a case where a mother killed their little boy with a
hammer hit to the head and the two parents then hid the body and tried to make
everyone think the little boy had just ran away.

This present case does not seem all that much different in some ways.

 

[KPMcLovin]

My friend with the prosthetic also said this when I showed him the pic of Zahra in all black standing on a too short looking leg.:

"Height is easy to adjust for. You can lengthen the leg with a couple of allen wrenches. I set my own height at home after they get it fairly close to where I want it when I get a new setup.

If her leg was causing her pain she'd have all the weight on her good leg though, while she's clearly putting it on her left. A leg that is misfitting would cause pain and you wouldn't stand on it. You'd put all your weight on your good leg and let the other stand on your toes or something for balance.

If she had a wound on her leg though you'd go to the emergency room and they could treat it like any other wound. You can also just not wear your leg if it really hurts. Lots of people just use crutches or wheel chairs.

The amount of pain from a misfitting leg or a wound is nearly indescribable. You wouldn't be smiling. The best I can say is it would be like stepping on a nail and putting it though your foot everytime you put weight on it. When you shift back it's like pulling the nail back though again. It's not a dull pain, it's not even constant so you can't get used to it. It comes every time you step. You'd need morphine to kill out that kind of pain. Been there, done that more then once."

How sad. On another note... Chemo weakens the liver and kidneys. She could have taken enough acetaminophen to possibly cause liver failure which I think liver failure usually causes kidney failure as well (not sure on that).

 

[tlcya]

As to the dismemberment

1) It was done to hide identity (an amputee and a child to boot would be pretty identifiable immediately)

or

2) Hide COD or evidence that would identify guilty party.

As to the prosthetic fitting, needing fitted, causing pain.

1) LE cannot even determine when Zahra was last seen alive. The photos we have all seen of Zahra are not date stamped and we have no way of knowing if any of those smiling photos are recent. I have seen no claims from anyone anywhere that any of those photos are from within the last six months.

2) This is a child who survived childhood cancer, an amputation and hearing loss. She is used to making lemonade out of lemons in her life. I do not think her smiling in photos can be taken as evidence that Zahra may not have been uncomfortable or worse, in pain.

Others may interpret the facts differently. This is simpy mine.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Precious Child.