CBS - 48 Hours - Buried Truth episode 12 November 2016 - 9pm central

[RainCheck]

Personally I think the explanation of "mental illness" is greatly overused. We have no real idea if she has bonafide mental health issues. Nor do we know if her son does. Some people in this world are just horrible, evil people. It's a dangerous and slippery slope if we start attributing "mental illness" to every serial killer out there for it tends to 'excuse' what they've done ("oh they couldn't really help it, they were mentally ill") and it also increases the negative stigma associated with the millions of good people out there in this world who do battle mental illness. I think that it's also dangerous and irresponsible to essentially diagnose anyone in this situation. None of us here are qualified to do so and even if we were, diagnosing someone based on snippets in news articles and watching some interviews is not how a mental health diagnosis is made. JMO

In my opinion, <modsnip>. No one in this world is born "evil", it's much more complex than that, and the only way people with the traits to become serial killers are helped is through early intervention and understanding. Mental illness is an illness just like chicken pox or heart disease. It's an illness of the brain and diagnosis are made by looking at the symptoms that are exhibited by that illness. TK presents symptoms of being a sociapath and his mother presents symptoms of a personality disorder as well. It would take a doctor to officially diagnose them, of course, but anyone who is very familiar with the symptoms of certain mental illnesses can spot them in these two. Mental illness covered a very broad range just like illnesses of every organ of the human body and these two indivuals present symptoms of one type of mental illness. <modsnip>

"These common traits of serial killers have been linked to certain antisocial personality disorders, including sociopathy. In addition, sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated or angered. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201409/the-sociopath-serial-killer-connection

 

[jstkiddn]

I did see your post after I posted mine. Lol. We were all 4 girls though. That's so funny. Oh and the FD showed up in full regalia also. This would have been around 1990 or 1991. I wonder how often they get these calls! LMAO

My bathroom/fire department incident was in the late 60s. Guess some things never change. Lol. Too funny.

 

[bluesneakers]

Personally I think the explanation of "mental illness" is greatly overused. We have no real idea if she has bonafide mental health issues. Nor do we know if her son does. Some people in this world are just horrible, evil people. It's a dangerous and slippery slope if we start attributing "mental illness" to every serial killer out there for it tends to 'excuse' what they've done ("oh they couldn't really help it, they were mentally ill") and it also increases the negative stigma associated with the millions of good people out there in this world who do battle mental illness. I think that it's also dangerous and irresponsible to essentially diagnose anyone in this situation. None of us here are qualified to do so and even if we were, diagnosing someone based on snippets in news articles and watching some interviews is not how a mental health diagnosis is made. JMO

I agree. People who don't know better are all too eager to slap a diagnosis on someone who is violent or dangerous and the result is more stigma and increased fear. This woman might be sick or abused or just fine - we do not have the information to say she's ill. Just look at how long it takes patients to get the right diagnosis when they are working with professionals.

The opposite is true as well - sometimes a person with a mental illness IS dangerous and when people don't understand it's another piece that contributes to the stigma and fear as well. They assume mental illness = dangerous.

It's important to remember people with mental illnesses are more likely to be victims than the general population. And more likely to be victims than perpetrators.

So to turn it around a bit if we're going to consider the possibility she is ill we also have to consider the possibility she was one of his first victims.

 

[Gnatcatcher]

Morning all. I watched the 48 Hours episode somewhat haphazzardly as I was making dinner last night, I'll rewatch this week, so forgive if this was answered but I wanted to throw it out before I forgot I was thinking about it...

In the segment where they talk about TK kidnapping/raping the neighbor girl, the interviewer said that he pled guilty to the kidnapping charge so that the rape charge would be dropped, then he was sentenced to 14 years. I heard that and thought, dropped? what? then how did he become a RSO if the assault charge was dropped? Does kidnapping come with its own sex offense charge? Thanks.

 

[StarryNight]

Morning all. I watched the 48 Hours episode somewhat haphazzardly as I was making dinner last night, I'll rewatch this week, so forgive if this was answered but I wanted to throw it out before I forgot I was thinking about it...

In the segment where they talk about TK kidnapping/raping the neighbor girl, the interviewer said that he pled guilty to the kidnapping charge so that the rape charge would be dropped, then he was sentenced to 14 years. I heard that and thought, dropped? what? then how did he become a RSO if the assault charge was dropped? Does kidnapping come with its own sex offense charge? Thanks.

My understanding is that they agreed to drop the rape charge IF and only if he agreed to register as an RSO for life. IMO, they should have still charged him with rape AND made him register for life, but there are some cases where the cops have to give up some things in order to get a conviction for other things.

 

[Foxfire]

Yeah but in your sister's case, if your parents DID call the fire department that would make sense. You parents KNEW where your sister was, locked in their upstairs bedroom......and they needed the assistance of someone with a ladder to access the bedroom via the window.

Originally Posted by bookboarder View Post
Slightly off topic, but relevant to calling the fire department. When my sister was 2 or 3 she locked herself alone in my parent's room. Unfortunately she couldn't figure out how to unlock it. We tried for some time to get her to follow our directions. It was a strong lock, deadbolt kind and it just wasn't getting us anywhere.

I don't recall if my mom called 911 or the fire department but the fire department came and climbed up onto the balcony to my parents' room as we didn't have any ladders long enough. They managed to get in and let her out but the main point was it was fire and rescue that came! I still give my sister he-ll about it over 25 years later. Lol

In the case of the "story" RT told, if your child was found to be missing in the home, you wouldn't call the fire department - you'd call police .....for you don't know if it's a case of child being trapped somewhere, abducted, wandered away from the home and lost, etc.

Quote Originally Posted by bookboarder View Post
I did see your post after I posted mine. Lol. We were all 4 girls though. That's so funny. Oh and the FD showed up in full regalia also. This would have been around 1990 or 1991. I wonder how often they get these calls! LMAO

I am retired Atlanta Fire Department, and you would not believe the calls we get, and respond to... Cats in trees, parakeets in trees, locked out of the house<many times for the same resident> Car engine dieseling & wouldn't stop running, burglars that get stuck in chimneys, etc... These are called service calls...Many times they were humorous and some were serious. We never knew til we got on the scene.. We were dispatched to many crimes scenes because residents knew that our response time was usually much faster than police..

 

[jstkiddn]

My understanding is that they agreed to drop the rape charge IF and only if he agreed to register as an RSO for life. IMO, they should have still charged him with rape AND made him register for life, but there are some cases where the cops have to give up some things in order to get a conviction for other things.

Sometimes in sexual assault cases, especially those involving a minor, they will plea bargain in order to keep the victim from having to testify on the stand. I'm sure her family was doing what they thought best at the time. And honestly....looking back would it have really made any difference?

 

[jstkiddn]

I am retired Atlanta Fire Department, and you would not believe the calls we get, and respond to... Cats in trees, parakeets in trees, locked out of the house<many times for the same resident> Car engine dieseling & wouldn't stop running, burgulars that get stuck in chimneys, etc... These are called service calls...Many times they were humorous and some were serious. We never knew til we got on the scene.. We were dispatched to many crimes scenes because residents knew that our response time was usually much faster than police..

So, it wouldn't have been out of the question that you might be dispatched to a missing child call?

 

[Gardener1850]

TK admitted to shooting all 4 victims at Superbike once, in the forehead. A detail that has never been made public.

I was just thinking about this and I wonder what else he told them? Because the detail that the murderer went back and shot each of the victims in the head was in the press. It's described in the first Crimewatch Daily video on this page: http://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/02/08/4-people-massacred-in-motorsports-shop-in-middle-of-day/

Was it just the specific detail that the final shots were through the forehead instead of say the back of the head? I believe he did it but I hope they have a lot more than that for evidence.

 

[skibaboo]

I was just thinking about this and I wonder what else he told them? Because the detail that the murderer went back and shot each of the victims in the head was in the press. It's described in the first Crimewatch Daily video on this page: http://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/02/08/4-people-massacred-in-motorsports-shop-in-middle-of-day/

Was it just the specific detail that the final shots were through the forehead instead of say the back of the head? I believe he did it but I hope they have a lot more than that for evidence.

They said that was 1 of 3 things he told them , but didn't say what the other 2 things were. I think they must be convinced

 

[Kadoober]

My theory:
The media put out false information intentionally, suggesting that the victims were shot more than once.
Terry Guy goes so far as to say that AFTER TK killed them, he went back and shot them in the chest and the head to make sure they were dead. That would suggest a minimum of 3 shots per person.

So I think the detail of one shot to the head each is more than enough to confirm he's their guy.

LE: 'Hey, TK, you said you did Superbike? What was WRONG in the media?'.

TK: 'That I needed more than one shot to kill them. I am a superb shot, and to suggest that they were shot multiple times is insulting to me.'

I will even go so far as to say that if this is correct, THIS IS WHY HE CONFESSED. He needed to set the record straight. Stupid media and their poor reporting skills. It's probably been eating him up for 13 years.

 

[StarryNight]

Sometimes in sexual assault cases, especially those involving a minor, they will plea bargain in order to keep the victim from having to testify on the stand. I'm sure her family was doing what they thought best at the time. And honestly....looking back would it have really made any difference?

I would say that would be another reason. I can't imagine the girl would have wanted to face TK in court if there was a way for her to avoid it. I doubt it would've made much difference, but I just hate how some charges get dropped sometimes. But I know there are reasons, and I get that.

 

[Foxfire]

So, it wouldn't have been out of the question that you might be dispatched to a missing child call?

Ya just never know, jstkiddn. Prolly be a good plan for getting extra manpower on the scene quickly.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Something that has been bugging me about the bike shop murders is...

Before the news broke that he confessed to that slaughter, apparently no one (as in, no one on the entire planet, or any other planet) ever connected him in any way or considered him in any way, for that crime.

Except apparently, his own mother. Am I understanding correctly?

 

[charliesfingies]

Well, that's because you don't have the mental health issues she does. I don't think she can function very well, much less worry about her serial killer son. Her inability to maintain a healthy relationship with anyone in her life, family, husbands and children, are a big clue she most likely suffers from a serious personality disorder herself. Watching her speak, she exhibits some very narcissistic traits and an inability to feel empathy for other people. TK was probably born with some hereditary mental health issues and grew up unwanted in a tornado of chaos. His mother wasn't going to suddenly become a good mother and try to protect society from her son now.

Right. That's kind of what I was trying to get to, but didn't exactly. My initial reaction had been to go super easy on her, to empathize with it being her son and projecting myself into her place...but the more I watched, the more I realized it's a false equivalence because of who she is and where her priorities are. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call her mentally ill...I think it's important to treat that carefully and not try to diagnose someone on the internet or based on a few minutes of video...but the relationship at any rate is suuuper unhealthy.

 

[jstkiddn]

Something that has been bugging me about the bike shop murders is...

Before the news broke that he confessed to that slaughter, apparently no one (as in, no one on the entire planet, or any other planet) ever connected him in any way or considered him in any way, for that crime.

Except apparently, his own mother. Am I understanding correctly?

Well, his name was highlighted on a list of recent customers but for some reason or another he was never questioned by law enforcement. They said something akin to there was nothing in his background that would make them look any closer, which IMO is scary because the fact he spent 15 years in prison for a violent rape should have made them at least glance twice. BUT - I'm not sure how all of that works and if he took a plea bargain for the kidnapping charge, the SC police may not have been able to see any details about the actual crime was was committed.

That said, I'm not buying that mom just all of the sudden out of the blue thought of the Superbike murders 13 years later. In her interviews she even remembered Todd being jumpy acting and that he was very interested in the news coverage of the crime back at the time right after it took place. In my head, the only reason she would remember that and the only reason that she brought it up to the police now is because somewhere in her mind she had been wondering if he had done it.

 

[Kadoober]

Something that has been bugging me about the bike shop murders is...

Before the news broke that he confessed to that slaughter, apparently no one (as in, no one on the entire planet, or any other planet) ever connected him in any way or considered him in any way, for that crime.

Except apparently, his own mother. Am I understanding correctly?

That's a bit murky right now. The way she says it, it just magically came to her after speaking with the sheriff, and she told him he should look into it.

In her channel 7 interview (I think!), she describes the confession to her, but her wording is very odd, so it's hard to tell if she knew. She describes it as HER asking HIM, 'Did you do it?', and he says yes. To me, this sounds as if she knew and she was the one initiating the conversation, which makes little sense.

Unless she had just prior described her revelation that she shared with the sheriff and was asking from that. I don't know. :gaah:

 

[charliesfingies]

That's a bit murky right now. The way she says it, it just magically came to her after speaking with the sheriff, and she told him he should look into it.

In her channel 7 interview (I think!), she describes the confession to her, but her wording is very odd, so it's hard to tell if she knew. She describes it as HER asking HIM, 'Did you do it?', and he says yes. To me, this sounds as if she knew and she was the one initiating the conversation, which makes little sense.

Unless she had just prior described her revelation that she shared with the sheriff and was asking from that. I don't know. :gaah:

That really threw me. Didn't it seem like she told two different stories? One version, it just came to her and she told police to check into it. The other, it came to her to ask TK and he confessed. If he confessed to her, it didn't just come to her to suggest it to police...and if she told LE to examine it before she talked to TK & he confessed, what's the point of telling the story about suggesting it to LE?

MOO - she knew or suspected all along, and tells the story of suggesting it to LE to paint herself as cooperative, helpful, concerned...much as folks have suggested she's doing with her stories.

 

[bookboarder]

As someone who unfortunately suffers from mental illness [severe depression for 20 years now, anxiety and PTSD], I appreciate those who understand that like any other illness it is different for each individual and like other illnesses, none of us deserve it. I am luckily currently stable on my present medications but I never know when or if it will get worse or stop working. As another poster noted, the mentally ill are at substantially higher risk than the general population to be a victim of violence rather than a perpetrator. Also, there are only a few mental illnesses that include violent symptoms versus the myriad which lead sufferers to self harm.

 

[Kadoober]

I would say that would be another reason. I can't imagine the girl would have wanted to face TK in court if there was a way for her to avoid it. I doubt it would've made much difference, but I just hate how some charges get dropped sometimes. But I know there are reasons, and I get that.

From the presentencing report:

"In regards to the stipulated sentence of 15 years, Mr. XXXX feels the defendant got quite a deal. He would like to see the defendant receive a longer sentence, however, if it means that they have to go through a trial and additional court hearings, he is not interested. Their primary concern is for the welfare of their daughter and they feel that the closure of the matter would be the best thing for her. Mr. XXXX does feel that the defendant should have to register as a sex offender. They are most concerned about the welfare of their daughter and they would like her to be able to grow up unafraid."

https://htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/files/1987-presentence-investigation-report-1478284242.pdf